SONY A99 ii VS Canon 5div

[Loswr]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

Problem is with the Canon there is high probability of getting subject in focus for all 21 frames. With Sony you are only guaranteed to get 1st image in focus. Can you check few posts above where someone posted continuous shooting limitations with aperture setting. How does it affect in real life shooting?
Sony also has in built black hole active during video shooting. Any lens with f/1.8 or any faster aperture is going to work like f/3.5 during video. Black Hole eats rest of the light.

We keep talking about photo buffers.
We have to accept that 5d4 cannot handle that much data than sony a99M2

True. But data quantity ≠ data quality. For example, would you consider a buffer filled with 1 in-focus image followed 53 out-of-focus frames to be useful? I wouldn't...I'd far prefer only 21 images with most or all of them in focus.

1 in-focus image followed 53 out-of-focus frames to be useful?
Show us your 54 sample photos in your test if u have any

I'd be happy to test it, if you'll let me borrow your a99 II. Or your time machine. :

But, I do know what happens if your subject is changing distance during burst shooting, but your camera only focuses before the first frame and not continuously (between frames) during the burst (as happens in some cases with the a99 II). I trust you can work that one out for yourself...

So your conclusion comes from nth, no proof at all.
Not even reading menus. :-\

Yeah, the information about the camera that Sony published on their website isn't proof, heck it's probably wrong anyway. It's not like they designed the camera or anything. If I give you a dollar, will you use it to go buy a clue?

 

[3kramd5]

At least Sony is better in Low light AF

Has anyone used the Sony's AF system and reported on it? Or are you conflating sensors which register in a darker environment with the AF performance in low light being better? The latter doesn't necessarily follow from the former.

 

[Loswr]

At least Sony is better in Low light AF

Has anyone used the Sony's AF system and reported on it?

What a silly question...don't you get that only the stated specification matters? Actual performance is worth nth.

 

[3kramd5]

What a silly question...don't you get that only the stated specification matters? Actual performance is worth nth.

Sweet, my a7r2's AF system just got a lot better (by the delta between how it works for me and what the marketing/datasheets suggest)!

 

[d]

This is a very dishonest test by TDP because it leads people (such as yourself) to think that the buffering is more capable than it really is.

How is it dishonest if he is prominently stating that those are the test configurations he was using, and even includes the disclaimer, "These buffer capacities should be considered best-possible for the referenced cards and your in-the-field results will likely vary"?

Bit of a mischaracterisation on your part, Dilbert, to call him "very dishonest". You might disagree with his testing methodology (as might I), but to attack his integrity is ridiculous.

d.

 

[rrcphoto]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

except people are getting 35+ with the 5D Mark IV.

Reference?

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=18912

Reducing any concerns about the buffer depth: using a Lexar 64GB Professional 1066x UDMA 7 Compact Flash Card (Max. Read/Write Speed: 160/155 MB/s), the 5D Mark IV captured 36 frames in 4.98 seconds to precisely match the rated speed and, great news, far exceed the rated buffer depth.

There are several things missing here that are important, the first of which is this:

"The lens cap remained on (insuring a black file and the smallest file size)"

In other words, the 36 frames that filled the buffer in TDP's test are highly unlikely to be representative of the file size that you will produce when photographing real world subjects.

I'm pretty sure that if you did the "lens cap on" test with the Sony A99 II, the number of images that could be captured would also exceed Sony's published spec.

This is a very dishonest test by TDP because it leads people (such as yourself) to think that the buffering is more capable than it really is.

Duh.
How do you think canon and Sony come up with those numbers?

Take a look at the 5d mark iii numbers and what people were getting in reality.

 

[foo]

The most important part of what's missing in TDP's measurements is a statement on the size of the "lens cap on" file sizes.

Lens cap on raw files are approx 26MB on the 5DIV for me. Real world images range from ~29MB up to 56MB in the stuff I've taken so far.
Average size seems to be ~34MB and that gives approx 22 frames before the buffer fills.

The buffer is anywhere from 7 (RAWPR) to 110 (Large/Fine with standard CF/SD.)

That's not the whole story either. Turn on DLO in the camera and buffer depth as shown in the VF drops to 1. What you get with DLO turned on is around 0.5fps

The buffer will be some fixed number of megabytes. What's dishonest is trying to measure buffer depth in number of shots at all as that's very subjective and depends largely on what's in the photo - camera settings and card type playing an additional role.

 

[Josh Denver]

Now that is the sort of practical hands-on stuff that should end a lot of argument! ;D

But...but...I've read all the specs, and the Sony is better!

At least Sony is better in Low light AF, 4k performance, buffer and burst rate.

I'll leave the stills stuff to you but sorry, ''better 4K performance''?

Where did you get that? Read it on another forum? Read it in a spec sheet? On Dpreview?

It's strange because it's completely the opposite. The Sony in S35 4K mode vs Canon S35 4K mode what do we have in their best quality modes?

-Resolution? Technically both pretty much the same, but Canon has a bit higher resolution as it does cinema 4K 4096 pixels wide vs 3840 TV standard,

But what's important here is not resolution actually, it's sharpness. Canon is indefinitly better because of one huge element, Sony adds in-camera sharpening. While Canon at zero, while soft, retain than same resoluton, and that alone makes the 5D image more filmic and sony videoish.

-Colors Science?

Won't talk about this one!

-Colour weight?

4:2:2 vs 4:2:0

-rolling shutter?

Identical

-lowlight

Identical with Sony adding heavy NR above 6400

-Codec?

500mbps vs 100mbps, translates into much higher compression quality.

The only one where Sony goes ahead of The Canon is luminance range, and I say luminance not DR because Sony has restricted colour space and clips lots of colours in the highlights.

Sorry really how Sony has better 4K where Canon's 4K trumps it in everyway?

The thing is that Canon didn't shoot 4K until recently with the 1DXII and 5DIV but when it did it, it did it right, in cinema-quality specs (500mbps 4:2:2 Full DCI - not consumer 100mbps 4:2:0 UHD), with no reliability issues whatsoever.

Canon 1DC, 1DXII & 5DIV simply make better video IMAGES than Sonys. But yes, the sony's help you expose and focus with features like zebras and peaking (which are being implemented in the Mk4 as we speak by ML along with 1080p 14bit Raw video)

 

[pokerz]

Now that is the sort of practical hands-on stuff that should end a lot of argument! ;D

But...but...I've read all the specs, and the Sony is better!

At least Sony is better in Low light AF, 4k performance, buffer and burst rate.

I'll leave the stills stuff to you but sorry, ''better 4K performance''?

Where did you get that? Read it on another forum? Read it in a spec sheet? On Dpreview?

It's strange because it's completely the opposite. The Sony in S35 4K mode vs Canon S35 4K mode what do we have in their best quality modes?

-Resolution? Technically both pretty much the same, but Canon has a bit higher resolution as it does cinema 4K 4096 pixels wide vs 3840 TV standard,

But what's important here is not resolution actually, it's sharpness. Canon is indefinitly better because of one huge element, Sony adds in-camera sharpening. While Canon at zero, while soft, retain than same resoluton, and that alone makes the 5D image more filmic and sony videoish.

-Colors Science?

Won't talk about this one!

-Colour weight?

4:2:2 vs 4:2:0

-rolling shutter?

Identical

-lowlight

Identical with Sony adding heavy NR above 6400

-Codec?

500mbps vs 100mbps, translates into much higher compression quality.

The only one where Sony goes ahead of The Canon is luminance range, and I say luminance not DR because Sony has restricted colour space and clips lots of colours in the highlights.

Sorry really how Sony has better 4K where Canon's 4K trumps it in everyway?

The thing is that Canon didn't shoot 4K until recently with the 1DXII and 5DIV but when it did it, it did it right, in cinema-quality specs (500mbps 4:2:2 Full DCI - not consumer 100mbps 4:2:0 UHD), with no reliability issues whatsoever.

Canon 1DC, 1DXII & 5DIV simply make better video IMAGES than Sonys. But yes, the sony's help you expose and focus with features like zebras and peaking (which are being implemented in the Mk4 as we speak by ML along with 1080p 14bit Raw video)

We are talking 5d4 and a99II. 5d4 can't have S35 mode, its FOREVER 1.74x crop 4k.
Also, 5d4 does only 1080 HDMI output, never on 4k.

ML is almost dead in dual pixel cameras (760D, 70D & 80D).

Let's wait 5d5 in 2020 and see how Canon will react.

 

[LordofTackle]

(which are being implemented in the Mk4 as we speak by ML along with 1080p 14bit Raw video)

Interesting. Where did you get that information?

 

[pokerz]

(which are being implemented in the Mk4 as we speak by ML along with 1080p 14bit Raw video)

Interesting. Where did you get that information?

I bet he made his own ML hack for 14bits Raw video ;D

 

[Josh Denver]

The image crop is 1.64x. Like Canon APS-C. Lower than Aja Cion and BM4K, all camera we call s35. So get past that please

HDMI Out is 4K on the Sonys to walkaround the low-end consumer codec internally (that's unusable in professional environments) with a bulky external recorder, a 5DIV has an internal high-end codec. ProRes quality. People even always transcode it to ProRes upon ingesting and all report it's the same quality. We're taking about ProRes quality here, 4:2:2 500mbps vs h.264.

And yes, Magiclantern is active. I don't know where you got that DPAF has something to do with RAW ML. The 70D is working perfectly in raw with DPAF touch.

www.eoshd.com/2015/04/magic-lantern-now-working-on-canon-70d-both-versions/

The 7DII is actively having worked upon and veery close to getting it (s35 14bit 1080p). And the 5DIV while just got released, implementing ML process has started, it will take some time and at some point it WILL be doing 14raw 2K in FF just like the 5DIII as a bonus mode.

5div will make better images than a99ii just like a7rii. This is an important spec for me, you know, image quality of the camera

 

[tomO2013]

The a99ii is a great camera. In fact I'd say that about pretty much most cameras available today. It's really hard to buy a bad camera!
On my sub 4k retina mac monitor, with it's 8bit colour I'm sure the 42mp of a Sony or the 30mp of a 5div will look lovely down sampled . That holds true on almost any 8-10bit 4k monitor that you can buy today.
Personally what I care most about is print output quality, and the largest I can afford to print and also reasonably have any wall space for is 20X30. Even for gallery size, I'd probably stick to that as a limit as the market for people who will buy your work if it is larger is quite small i.e. somebody must REALLY REALLY love your work to buy something that is greater than 20X30 as when matted and framed it will take a huge amount of space up on their wall.
Which brings me back to why I shoot Canon, Sony and Pentax and why I have gone back to Canon.
Color. Yes you can get color checker passport, however that is simply adjusting lightroom channels , saturation, hue to get closer to accurate colour. When you massage colour in this way it can affect tonal transitions in the mid tones - subtle but noticeable in say a 20X30 portrait print. Also partly why some large advertising firms shoot 16bit medium format for large print sizes. The best prints in terms of color tonality are what I get from the Canon with big fat mid tones and a nicer highlight roll off out of camera to my a7 series. I have to do less to get it to where I want it to be. Ming Thein made mention of these qualities when he reviewed the 5dsr, that the camera had as close to 'right' out of camera colors as anything out there.
Circling back around, the a99ii spec sheet reads very very good. I read a thread on DPReview where it was mentioned that Sony only use 12bit raw in continuous, bulb and bracket for their a7rii, a7sii, a6300, a77ii so it is quite likely that the a99ii does the same. Regardless of whether compressed or lossy is selected.
I think when people compare raw numbers on a spec sheet, it isn't always comparing apples with apples.

 

[pokerz]

The image crop is 1.64x. Like Canon APS-C. Lower than Aja Cion and BM4K, all camera we call s35. So get past that please

HDMI Out is 4K on the Sonys to walkaround the low-end consumer codec internally (that's unusable in professional environments) with a bulky external recorder, a 5DIV has an internal high-end codec. ProRes quality. People even always transcode it to ProRes upon ingesting and all report it's the same quality. We're taking about ProRes quality here, 4:2:2 500mbps vs h.264.

And yes, Magiclantern is active. I don't know where you got that DPAF has something to do with RAW ML. The 70D is working perfectly in raw with DPAF touch.

www.eoshd.com/2015/04/magic-lantern-now-working-on-canon-70d-both-versions/

The 7DII is actively having worked upon and veery close to getting it (s35 14bit 1080p). And the 5DIV while just got released, implementing ML process has started, it will take some time and at some point it WILL be doing 14raw 2K in FF just like the 5DIII as a bonus mode.

5div will make better images than a99ii just like a7rii. This is an important spec for me, you know, image quality of the camera

High bitrate doesnt mean better quality, and pro use external recorders instead of internal
5d4 FOREVER 1080 hdmi output nomatter how u good at hacking.

Can u suggest which video/ movie is made by ML hack? ;D

 

[Josh Denver]

The image crop is 1.64x. Like Canon APS-C. Lower than Aja Cion and BM4K, all camera we call s35. So get past that please

HDMI Out is 4K on the Sonys to walkaround the low-end consumer codec internally (that's unusable in professional environments) with a bulky external recorder, a 5DIV has an internal high-end codec. ProRes quality. People even always transcode it to ProRes upon ingesting and all report it's the same quality. We're taking about ProRes quality here, 4:2:2 500mbps vs h.264.

And yes, Magiclantern is active. I don't know where you got that DPAF has something to do with RAW ML. The 70D is working perfectly in raw with DPAF touch.

www.eoshd.com/2015/04/magic-lantern-now-working-on-canon-70d-both-versions/

The 7DII is actively having worked upon and veery close to getting it (s35 14bit 1080p). And the 5DIV while just got released, implementing ML process has started, it will take some time and at some point it WILL be doing 14raw 2K in FF just like the 5DIII as a bonus mode.

5div will make better images than a99ii just like a7rii. This is an important spec for me, you know, image quality of the camera

Higher bitrates makes better image quality. E
High bitrate doesnt mean better quality, and pro use external recorders instead of internal
5d4 FOREVER 1080 hdmi output nomatter how u good at hacking.

Can u suggest which video/ movie is made by ML hack? ;D

No higher butrate does mean better quality. With a high bitrate you get finer shadow detail, and you get no compression blocks, but most importantly you get no compressiom artefacting with moving subjects (what people like to call ''filmic motion cadence'' is poor with an a7rii and filmic cadence with 1Dc). When low enough, it can make the image go mushy and reduce 4K resolution to 480p. But it's not that low on Sony's. 100mbps is just about enough to deal with normal image capture, but 500mbps 4:2:2 and ProRes is enough for Teir 1 HD broadcast aquisition and heavy image manipulation/grading.

Pros use external recorders? What about RED epic/weapon shooters? Sony f65, f55, f5, fs7, C300ii, C300, Varicam 35 and lt, ARRI Amira/alexa, Blackmagic cinema cameras i.e., virtually all professional cinema/video cameras are used to record internally. I guess those are not pro enough for you?

External recorders are needed when the cameras have a poor codec like all the Sonys, gh4, c100, etc.

It's just a simple fact that the 5DIV has a MUCH higher end recording format. And to get anything similar from the the a99ii you'd have to carry a huge 7'' 2000$ external recorder.

-No I do not have links for the 5dIV raw footage, as it's borrowed currently by my neighbour. As soon as he finishes up I'll get you some 5DIV raw footage.

In the mean time watch 5d3 raw 14 bit footage because that's exactly how it will look once a nightly build is released for the 5div.

 

[pokerz]

The image crop is 1.64x. Like Canon APS-C. Lower than Aja Cion and BM4K, all camera we call s35. So get past that please

HDMI Out is 4K on the Sonys to walkaround the low-end consumer codec internally (that's unusable in professional environments) with a bulky external recorder, a 5DIV has an internal high-end codec. ProRes quality. People even always transcode it to ProRes upon ingesting and all report it's the same quality. We're taking about ProRes quality here, 4:2:2 500mbps vs h.264.

And yes, Magiclantern is active. I don't know where you got that DPAF has something to do with RAW ML. The 70D is working perfectly in raw with DPAF touch.

www.eoshd.com/2015/04/magic-lantern-now-working-on-canon-70d-both-versions/

The 7DII is actively having worked upon and veery close to getting it (s35 14bit 1080p). And the 5DIV while just got released, implementing ML process has started, it will take some time and at some point it WILL be doing 14raw 2K in FF just like the 5DIII as a bonus mode.

5div will make better images than a99ii just like a7rii. This is an important spec for me, you know, image quality of the camera

Higher bitrates makes better image quality. E
High bitrate doesnt mean better quality, and pro use external recorders instead of internal
5d4 FOREVER 1080 hdmi output nomatter how u good at hacking.

Can u suggest which video/ movie is made by ML hack? ;D

No higher butrate does mean better quality. With a high bitrate you get finer shadow detail, and you get no compression blocks, but most importantly you get no compressiom artefacting with moving subjects (what people like to call ''filmic motion cadence'' is poor with an a7rii and filmic cadence with 1Dc). When low enough, it can make the image go mushy and reduce 4K resolution to 480p. But it's not that low on Sony's. 100mbps is just about enough to deal with normal image capture, but 500mbps 4:2:2 and ProRes is enough for Teir 1 HD broadcast aquisition and heavy image manipulation/grading.

Pros use external recorders? What about RED epic/weapon shooters? Sony f65, f55, f5, fs7, C300ii, C300, Varicam 35 and lt, ARRI Amira/alexa, Blackmagic cinema cameras i.e., virtually all professional cinema/video cameras are used to record internally. I guess those are not pro enough for you?

External recorders are needed when the cameras have a poor codec like all the Sonys, gh4, c100, etc.

It's just a simple fact that the 5DIV has a MUCH higher end recording format. And to get anything similar from the the a99ii you'd have to carry a huge 7'' 2000$ external recorder.

-No I do not have links for the 5dIV raw footage, as it's borrowed currently by my neighbour. As soon as he finishes up I'll get you some 5DIV raw footage.

In the mean time watch 5d3 raw 14 bit footage because that's exactly how it will look once a nightly build is released for the 5div.

Mjpeg just a gimmick, thats the reason why Canon new flagship EOS C700 $30000 uses XF-AVC instead of Mjpeg. 8)

 

[emko]

The image crop is 1.64x. Like Canon APS-C. Lower than Aja Cion and BM4K, all camera we call s35. So get past that please

HDMI Out is 4K on the Sonys to walkaround the low-end consumer codec internally (that's unusable in professional environments) with a bulky external recorder, a 5DIV has an internal high-end codec. ProRes quality. People even always transcode it to ProRes upon ingesting and all report it's the same quality. We're taking about ProRes quality here, 4:2:2 500mbps vs h.264.

And yes, Magiclantern is active. I don't know where you got that DPAF has something to do with RAW ML. The 70D is working perfectly in raw with DPAF touch.

www.eoshd.com/2015/04/magic-lantern-now-working-on-canon-70d-both-versions/

The 7DII is actively having worked upon and veery close to getting it (s35 14bit 1080p). And the 5DIV while just got released, implementing ML process has started, it will take some time and at some point it WILL be doing 14raw 2K in FF just like the 5DIII as a bonus mode.

5div will make better images than a99ii just like a7rii. This is an important spec for me, you know, image quality of the camera

"5div will make better images than a99ii just like a7rii. This is an important spec for me, you know, image quality of the camera " WHAT? where can i see this ?

or are you just HOPING on a 3rd party to make the 5D4 better?

 

[Josh Denver]

The image crop is 1.64x. Like Canon APS-C. Lower than Aja Cion and BM4K, all camera we call s35. So get past that please

HDMI Out is 4K on the Sonys to walkaround the low-end consumer codec internally (that's unusable in professional environments) with a bulky external recorder, a 5DIV has an internal high-end codec. ProRes quality. People even always transcode it to ProRes upon ingesting and all report it's the same quality. We're taking about ProRes quality here, 4:2:2 500mbps vs h.264.

And yes, Magiclantern is active. I don't know where you got that DPAF has something to do with RAW ML. The 70D is working perfectly in raw with DPAF touch.

www.eoshd.com/2015/04/magic-lantern-now-working-on-canon-70d-both-versions/

The 7DII is actively having worked upon and veery close to getting it (s35 14bit 1080p). And the 5DIV while just got released, implementing ML process has started, it will take some time and at some point it WILL be doing 14raw 2K in FF just like the 5DIII as a bonus mode.

5div will make better images than a99ii just like a7rii. This is an important spec for me, you know, image quality of the camera

"5div will make better images than a99ii just like a7rii. This is an important spec for me, you know, image quality of the camera " WHAT? where can i see this ?

or are you just HOPING on a 3rd party to make the 5D4 better?

I am speaking if the already implemented 500Mbps 4:2:2 4K vs Sony's 100mbps 4:2:0 UHD. But raw will give a pretty good 1080p mode too.

I mistyped. Someone was askung for 5D4 RAW footage so I said -Sorry my time machine is currently borrowed by my neughbour. I'll get you some raw footage as soon as I get it back.

Let me be clear: There still is NO Magic Lantern versiin compiled for the new 5D that the public can download. But as soon as there is, links to the nightly built will be given.

ML raw on the 5DIV isn't as important as it was on the MKIII because it only shot soft footage. And one more thing, the 30mp downsample to 1080p fullframe on the 5d4 seems to provide a hair more aliasing and more detail, so it will be just like the 5D RAW with a tiny hair of aliasing and slight hair of detail. Better seen on resolution charts than footage.

Anorher note: 4K raw is not a possibility due to the data rate vs CF card slot bottleneck. If it was a CFast 2 slot, maybe but it would still be aps-c crop. ML does not have access to windowing the sensor.

**I am just as sad as you are to see the 5D 30mp resolution, I wanted it to stay in the mkiii/1DxII/1DC territory. But of course video shooters like us are a MUCH smaller target than stills photographers who will be pleased with the resolution increase.

***I wish Sony was just all around better. I'd be shooting on an a7rii and not fighting canon's lack of features. Canon just has a better image. I can accept panasonic gh4 image especially with the SB, pany can make some lovely colour and their varicam cameras were always famous for their colour rendition. But Sony, jesus christ. What makes me wonder is that Sony has great colours and great video colours overall on their higher end line, starting from the fs5.

 

[3kramd5]

When you say "makes a better image" I presume you are meaning individual frames of the video feed given the effects of the compression scheme.

Or are you speaking in general? If so, care to look at two images side by side from my color calibrated workflow, one shot with a 5D(3) and the other with an A7R2 each using the same lens and point out which is which and why?

 

[ritholtz]

The image crop is 1.64x. Like Canon APS-C. Lower than Aja Cion and BM4K, all camera we call s35. So get past that please

HDMI Out is 4K on the Sonys to walkaround the low-end consumer codec internally (that's unusable in professional environments) with a bulky external recorder, a 5DIV has an internal high-end codec. ProRes quality. People even always transcode it to ProRes upon ingesting and all report it's the same quality. We're taking about ProRes quality here, 4:2:2 500mbps vs h.264.

And yes, Magiclantern is active. I don't know where you got that DPAF has something to do with RAW ML. The 70D is working perfectly in raw with DPAF touch.

www.eoshd.com/2015/04/magic-lantern-now-working-on-canon-70d-both-versions/

The 7DII is actively having worked upon and veery close to getting it (s35 14bit 1080p). And the 5DIV while just got released, implementing ML process has started, it will take some time and at some point it WILL be doing 14raw 2K in FF just like the 5DIII as a bonus mode.

5div will make better images than a99ii just like a7rii. This is an important spec for me, you know, image quality of the camera

"5div will make better images than a99ii just like a7rii. This is an important spec for me, you know, image quality of the camera " WHAT? where can i see this ?

or are you just HOPING on a 3rd party to make the 5D4 better?

I am speaking if the already implemented 500Mbps 4:2:2 4K vs Sony's 100mbps 4:2:0 UHD. But raw will give a pretty good 1080p mode too.

I mistyped. Someone was askung for 5D4 RAW footage so I said -Sorry my time machine is currently borrowed by my neughbour. I'll get you some raw footage as soon as I get it back.

Let me be clear: There still is NO Magic Lantern versiin compiled for the new 5D that the public can download. But as soon as there is, links to the nightly built will be given.

ML raw on the 5DIV isn't as important as it was on the MKIII because it only shot soft footage. And one more thing, the 30mp downsample to 1080p fullframe on the 5d4 seems to provide a hair more aliasing and more detail, so it will be just like the 5D RAW with a tiny hair of aliasing and slight hair of detail. Better seen on resolution charts than footage.

Anorher note: 4K raw is not a possibility due to the data rate vs CF card slot bottleneck. If it was a CFast 2 slot, maybe but it would still be aps-c crop. ML does not have access to windowing the sensor.

**I am just as sad as you are to see the 5D 30mp resolution, I wanted it to stay in the mkiii/1DxII/1DC territory. But of course video shooters like us are a MUCH smaller target than stills photographers who will be pleased with the resolution increase.

***I wish Sony was just all around better. I'd be shooting on an a7rii and not fighting canon's lack of features. Canon just has a better image. I can accept panasonic gh4 image especially with the SB, pany can make some lovely colour and their varicam cameras were always famous for their colour rendition. But Sony, jesus christ. What makes me wonder is that Sony has great colours and great video colours overall on their higher end line, starting from the fs5.

If some one wants video AF, probably Canon is better between these two. Sony can only video AF in P mode ( No AF in M, A, S modes) and with aperture fixed at f/3.5. If you want to video AF with f//1.4 lens, it is going to work like f/3.5 lens. In contrast, Canon can video AF fine with faster apertures and all exposure modes.