SONY A99 ii VS Canon 5div

[ritholtz]

All these cameras are beyond my capability and skill. I never used this camera. Someone please correct if it is wrong. Sony still has those old video AF limitations (no AF with faster aperture (f/3.5) and AF only in P mode) right? I use f/2.8 Aperture with Sony 17-50mm lens and adjust it during video with my 70D without any AF issue. Even if someone use f1.4 lens with Sony, it is still going to use f3.5 in video. That seems to be ridiculous.


Looks like Sony intentionally crippling this camera to protect E mount.

https://www.cinema5d.com/unraveling-sony-a99-ii-4k-as-good-a7-line/

 

[weixing]

Hi,
Saw this in the A99II brochure: "Furthermore, when “Continuous Shooting: Hi+” is selected, focus will be fixed at the first frame shot when Hybrid Phase Detection AF is active at aperture settings of F9 or higher, or when Hybrid Phase Detection AF is not active at aperture settings of F4 or higher."
Err... any idea what does this mean? "F9 or higher"?? Does "higher" mean larger or smaller aperture??

Have a nice day.

 

[Mikehit]

As for the 'canon is selling more cameras than sony' card, when comparing brands on anything but the level of individual, personal preference, that's the only card that really matters. Conversely, when comparing on the level of individual preference, that card is essentially irrelevant. But, you cannot compare individual preferences objectively since they by are, by definition, unique to individuals. Thus, it's meaningful to look at sales data as an aggregate measure of individuals' buying choices.

I guess I understand where you're trying to go. I however don't think the sales numbers are a relevant figure when people try to compare products to each other from a technical point of view. History has proven often enough that it is not the technically "best" product that wins in the market place but that many other parameters decide over market success. So it might very well be that other manufacturers camera bodies currently have an edge over Canon's but that other circumstances still lead to Canon selling more bodies. In such situation it is valid to "criticize" or dislike parameters of Canon's offering. And the sales numbers do not make these "technical facts" go away. Hence I think the "Canon still sells more thus is right" argument doesn't really do the trick...

I remember when the 7Rii came out and people said that its ability to use Canon lenses and still maintain decent AF would be the advent of brand agnostic systems and would lead to a paradigm shift and spell trouble for the big 2. I am still waiting...
Fact is, the Sony 7Rii was made able to use Canon lenses because the Sony stable was so bare and was the only real way to attract people to effectively sort-of-switch systems.

The fact is that camera bodies were commodotised long ago and nowadays even the basic sensors far exceed the IQ requirements of a vast majority of users - and in that I include professionals most of the time. And if you are using having to use Canon lenses on a Sony body, how much are you really saving in size/weight over using a Canon body? So given that, there is a strong psychological pull to having a Canon body with Canon lenses. And that is where Sony falls short. Then you have the after-sales service and its appalling reputation...
I am wondering if Sony is a great proof-of-concept platform in that it produces very good bodies that have functions that very few find they actually need, but having little real leverage in the market.

 

[ritholtz]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

Problem is with the Canon there is high probability of getting subject in focus for all 21 frames. With Sony you are only guaranteed to get 1st image in focus. Can you check few posts above where someone posted continuous shooting limitations with aperture setting. How does it affect in real life shooting?
Sony also has in built black hole active during video shooting. Any lens with f/1.8 or any faster aperture is going to work like f/3.5 during video. Black Hole eats rest of the light.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

Problem is with the Canon there is high probability of getting subject in focus for all 21 frames. With Sony you are only guaranteed to get 1st image in focus. Can you check few posts above where someone posted continuous shooting limitations with aperture setting. How does it affect in real life shooting?
Sony also has in built black hole active during video shooting. Any lens with f/1.8 or any faster aperture is going to work like f/3.5 during video. Black Hole eats rest of the light.

Expecting dilbert to check and then interpret the implications of facts before posting? That's the real black hole...

 

[3kramd5]

Hi,
Saw this in the A99II brochure: "Furthermore, when “Continuous Shooting: Hi+” is selected, focus will be fixed at the first frame shot when Hybrid Phase Detection AF is active at aperture settings of F9 or higher, or when Hybrid Phase Detection AF is not active at aperture settings of F4 or higher."
Err... any idea what does this mean? "F9 or higher"?? Does "higher" mean larger or smaller aperture??

Have a nice day.

Smaller.

 

[pokerz]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

Problem is with the Canon there is high probability of getting subject in focus for all 21 frames. With Sony you are only guaranteed to get 1st image in focus. Can you check few posts above where someone posted continuous shooting limitations with aperture setting. How does it affect in real life shooting?
Sony also has in built black hole active during video shooting. Any lens with f/1.8 or any faster aperture is going to work like f/3.5 during video. Black Hole eats rest of the light.

We keep talking about photo buffers.
We have to accept that 5d4 cannot handle that much data than sony a99M2

 

[neuroanatomist]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

Problem is with the Canon there is high probability of getting subject in focus for all 21 frames. With Sony you are only guaranteed to get 1st image in focus. Can you check few posts above where someone posted continuous shooting limitations with aperture setting. How does it affect in real life shooting?
Sony also has in built black hole active during video shooting. Any lens with f/1.8 or any faster aperture is going to work like f/3.5 during video. Black Hole eats rest of the light.

We keep talking about photo buffers.
We have to accept that 5d4 cannot handle that much data than sony a99M2

True. But data quantity ≠ data quality. For example, would you consider a buffer filled with 1 in-focus image followed 53 out-of-focus frames to be useful? I wouldn't...I'd far prefer only 21 images with most or all of them in focus.

 

[weixing]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

Problem is with the Canon there is high probability of getting subject in focus for all 21 frames. With Sony you are only guaranteed to get 1st image in focus. Can you check few posts above where someone posted continuous shooting limitations with aperture setting. How does it affect in real life shooting?

What was said above is this:

Saw this in the A99II brochure: "Furthermore, when “Continuous Shooting: Hi+” is selected, focus will be fixed at the first frame shot when Hybrid Phase Detection AF is active at aperture settings of F9 or higher, or when Hybrid Phase Detection AF is not active at aperture settings of F4 or higher.

So what does that mean?

Well it means if you're shooting 12fps basketball at f/2.8 with a 70-200 with "HI+" selected, you don't have to worry.

Similarly if you're at a wedding indoors and using a 85/1.4 at f/1.8 at 12fps, you still don't have to worry.

If you want to shoot at f/11 with continuous autofocus then you need to disable the Hybrid Autofocus mode or drop the frame rate from 12fps to 8 fps (still faster than the 5D Mark IV.)

The problem here isn't that it won't work at all but rather the logic table for when it does/doesn't is too complex.

Here's a link to detailed specifications for the A99II:

http://sonyglobal.scene7.com/is/content/gwtvid/pdf/2016/A916/1e06f5296792e980.pdf

The brochure presents it like this:

Drive Speed (approx., max.)*3 Continuous shooting: Hi+: 12 fps, Hi: 8 fps, Mid: 6 fps, Lo: 4 fps

*3 Varies according to shooting conditions or memory card used

• New Hybrid Phase Detection AF system: 79*1 + 399*2 points, 79*1 Hybirid Cross AF points*3
• High-speed continuous shooting at up to 12 fps*4 with AF/AE tracking*5, or up to 8 fps*6 in live-view mode with minimal lag

[list type=decimal]
[*]The number of usable AF points may depend on the lens and shooting mode.
[*]The number of usable AF points may depend on the lens and shooting mode. Up to 323 focus points are selectable. Not available for movie recording.
[*]Hybrid Phase Detection AF active. The dedicated phase detection AF sensor or focal-plane phase detection AF sensor may be used independently in certain photographic situations.
[*]Continuous shooting mode set to "Hi+"
[*]The supported focus area will depend on the shooting mode and lens used. Furthermore, when “Continuous Shooting: Hi+” is selected, focus will be fixed at the first frame shot when Hybrid Phase Detection AF is active at aperture settings of F9 or higher, or when Hybrid Phase Detection AF is not active at aperture settings of F4 or higher.
[*]Continuous shooting mode set to "Hi+"
[/list]

Yes, it's complex, probably too complex for too many.

Hi,
So the Hybrid Phase Detection had to be turn on to get F4 and slower lens to shoot at 12fps with AF.

"Approx. 390 shots (Viewfinder) /approx. 490 shots (LCD monitor) (CIPA standard)"
Just realised that A99II use an EVF, so no wonder using the viewfinder use up more power than the Live View Shooting...

Have a nice day.

 

[rrcphoto]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

except people are getting 35+ with the 5D Mark IV.

 

[dak723]

5div killer?

Sony A99 II finally announced by Sony today, the camera features 42 megapixel CMOS sensor same as of Sony A7R II camera. The standard ISO range of the camera is 100-25600, expandable to ISO 50 – 102,400. And it can also record 4K at 100Mbps (using XAVC S) with full sensor read-out and no pixel binning, both stills and video supported by 5 axis image stabilization system. Sony A99 II Hybrid AF system with 399 + 79 AF points. The camera can shoot upto 12frames per second with continuous AF tracking.

http://thenewcamera.com/sony-a99-ii-announced-press-release-full-specification-and-more/

4000$ Canadian - as opposed to 4600$ for the Canon 5d iv............hmmmm did Canon just get blown out of the water?

If someone is interested in a Sony based on those specs alone, why would they bother posting that on a Canon forum? Just buy the camera you want ... no one cares what you buy. No one is getting "blown out of the water". What a dumb, useless phrase that is.

Exactly! If you think Sony makes a superior product, go buy one. Why post on a Canon forum unless you are basically trying to rile up people's emotions? This kind of post is nothing but a troll post. It asks no serious questions. It starts no meaningful discussion. Just buy the camera you want and let others do the same. Form whatever opinion you want on who makes the best camera for you - AND LET OTHERS DO THE SAME.

 

[pokerz]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

Problem is with the Canon there is high probability of getting subject in focus for all 21 frames. With Sony you are only guaranteed to get 1st image in focus. Can you check few posts above where someone posted continuous shooting limitations with aperture setting. How does it affect in real life shooting?
Sony also has in built black hole active during video shooting. Any lens with f/1.8 or any faster aperture is going to work like f/3.5 during video. Black Hole eats rest of the light.

We keep talking about photo buffers.
We have to accept that 5d4 cannot handle that much data than sony a99M2

True. But data quantity ≠ data quality. For example, would you consider a buffer filled with 1 in-focus image followed 53 out-of-focus frames to be useful? I wouldn't...I'd far prefer only 21 images with most or all of them in focus.

1 in-focus image followed 53 out-of-focus frames to be useful?
Show us your 54 sample photos in your test if u have any

 

[neuroanatomist]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

Problem is with the Canon there is high probability of getting subject in focus for all 21 frames. With Sony you are only guaranteed to get 1st image in focus. Can you check few posts above where someone posted continuous shooting limitations with aperture setting. How does it affect in real life shooting?
Sony also has in built black hole active during video shooting. Any lens with f/1.8 or any faster aperture is going to work like f/3.5 during video. Black Hole eats rest of the light.

We keep talking about photo buffers.
We have to accept that 5d4 cannot handle that much data than sony a99M2

True. But data quantity ≠ data quality. For example, would you consider a buffer filled with 1 in-focus image followed 53 out-of-focus frames to be useful? I wouldn't...I'd far prefer only 21 images with most or all of them in focus.

1 in-focus image followed 53 out-of-focus frames to be useful?
Show us your 54 sample photos in your test if u have any

I'd be happy to test it, if you'll let me borrow your a99 II. Or your time machine. :

But, I do know what happens if your subject is changing distance during burst shooting, but your camera only focuses before the first frame and not continuously (between frames) during the burst (as happens in some cases with the a99 II). I trust you can work that one out for yourself...

 

[rrcphoto]

Canon 5D Mark IV burst: 21 @ 7fps = 3 seconds
Sony A99 II burst: 54 frames @ 12fps = 4.5 seconds

Both represent raw images.

except people are getting 35+ with the 5D Mark IV.

Reference?

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=18912

Reducing any concerns about the buffer depth: using a Lexar 64GB Professional 1066x UDMA 7 Compact Flash Card (Max. Read/Write Speed: 160/155 MB/s), the 5D Mark IV captured 36 frames in 4.98 seconds to precisely match the rated speed and, great news, far exceed the rated buffer depth.

 

[deadwrong]

5div killer?

Sony A99 II finally announced by Sony today, the camera features 42 megapixel CMOS sensor same as of Sony A7R II camera. The standard ISO range of the camera is 100-25600, expandable to ISO 50 – 102,400. And it can also record 4K at 100Mbps (using XAVC S) with full sensor read-out and no pixel binning, both stills and video supported by 5 axis image stabilization system. Sony A99 II Hybrid AF system with 399 + 79 AF points. The camera can shoot upto 12frames per second with continuous AF tracking.

http://thenewcamera.com/sony-a99-ii-announced-press-release-full-specification-and-more/

4000$ Canadian - as opposed to 4600$ for the Canon 5d iv............hmmmm did Canon just get blown out of the water?

If someone is interested in a Sony based on those specs alone, why would they bother posting that on a Canon forum? Just buy the camera you want ... no one cares what you buy. No one is getting "blown out of the water". What a dumb, useless phrase that is.

Exactly! If you think Sony makes a superior product, go buy one. Why post on a Canon forum unless you are basically trying to rile up people's emotions? This kind of post is nothing but a troll post. It asks no serious questions. It starts no meaningful discussion. Just buy the camera you want and let others do the same. Form whatever opinion you want on who makes the best camera for you - AND LET OTHERS DO THE SAME.

LOL, the whole idea here is too debate the real value of the 5div and how long this camera has before its totally obsolete within 2 years. If you dont like this post, then i suggest you dont read it and keep blind to what other manufacturers are doing to better Canon. I want to buy the 5d too, but shelling out 5k on a this camera, i am sitting on the fence for abit. I am not a Sony fan boy, thats forsure. There is no denying that Sony has the better camera body these days, just a matter of time before the lenses catchup.

 

[scyrene]

There is no denying that Sony has the better camera body these days, just a matter of time before the lenses catchup.

How can you be so sure? I believe earlier in the thread people discussed lenses for this mount, and that little had been released for it in recent years. You assume Sony will address the areas where it is weaker, but not Canon? Where is your evidence for that?

 

[rrcphoto]

There is no denying that Sony has the better camera body these days, just a matter of time before the lenses catchup.

They haven't done a new full frame lens in 4 years. just how much time do you expect that to take?

 

[neuroanatomist]

There is no denying that Sony has the better camera body these days, just a matter of time before the lenses catchup.

No denying for you, maybe. Are 15 cross-type AF points superior to 41 cross-type AF points? Is one f/2.8 AF point better than five of them? Is no GPS better than having GPS? Do you believe the UI is part of a camera (granted, Sony is at least trying to improve it, but when starting from so far in the hole...)?

At the rate Sony is releasing A-mount lenses, it's 'just a matter of time' in the same way that it's 'just a matter of time' before the sun becomes a red giant and destroys life on Earth. You have been warned... :

 

[Sdiver2489]

I keep looking at the A7RII as a potential switch option and I keep coming to the same conclusion. Sony doesn't have lenses that are equivalent to what I have on Canon and/or aren't of the same quality. Until they fix this issue...I just can't switch.

 

[unfocused]

LOL, the whole idea here is too debate the real value of the 5div and how long this camera has before its totally obsolete within 2 years. If you dont like this post, then i suggest you dont read it and keep blind to what other manufacturers are doing to better Canon. I want to buy the 5d too, but shelling out 5k on a this camera, i am sitting on the fence for abit. I am not a Sony fan boy, thats forsure. There is no denying that Sony has the better camera body these days, just a matter of time before the lenses catchup.

If the whole idea really was to debate the real value of the 5D IV, then I suggest you actually read the 10 pages of responses because contained within those posts are any number of good arguments as to why the 5D IV is a better camera.

"Totally obsolete within 2 years" What does that even mean? Will it still take pictures? Will it still use cards that are readily available? Will you still be able to download, edit and print the photos? Then it's not obsolete.

"There's no denying Sony has the better body these days." Except a lot of people do deny that. Again read the thread if you actually want to learn something, instead of just trolling. There are many good reasons people believe Canon is superior and that's based on people who actually use cameras instead of sitting in their Mom's basement reading spec sheets,

"Just a matter of time before the lenses catch up." It's good that you are willing to risk your money on blind faith in Sony, but others look at past performance and what is available today and would rather not take that risk, especially since Canon doesn't sit still as far as lens development. Sony may someday catch up with what Canon offers today, but will they ever catch up with what Canon may offer in the future. Past performance says "no."

You say you wanted a debate. You got it. You just can't live with the fact that your side lost the debate.

If,you still want the Sony, go ahead. I think Canada is still a free country for the time being, so go ahead. Just know that in the objective world of the marketplace, you are in a small minority in thinking it is a better camera.