SONY A99 ii VS Canon 5div

[John2016]

BOOM: "We sell replacement mounts to use Nikkor,Voigtlander SL II and Zeiss ZF lenses on Sony cameras."
http://leitax.com/Voigtlander-lens-for-Sony-cameras.html

 

[njene]

This kit comes with glue and everything for a professional finished mount

BOOOM!

 

[Loswr]

All this funny "neurotransmitter" in this forum running out of any constructive arguments...

As always, the market will decide. Sony fanbois will drool and salivate, DPR will fawn over it, and the 5DIV will outsell it by a huge margin.

Which might tell us that the Canon marketing approach is (currently?, still?) more successfull - which is not the same as the product being superior.

It might, if you assume that people are basically sheep who let advertisements lead them by the nose, and don't give a thought to which product(s) would best meet their needs before spending thousands of dollars.

 

[romanr74]

All this funny "neurotransmitter" in this forum running out of any constructive arguments...

As always, the market will decide. Sony fanbois will drool and salivate, DPR will fawn over it, and the 5DIV will outsell it by a huge margin.

Which might tell us that the Canon marketing approach is (currently?, still?) more successfull - which is not the same as the product being superior.

It might, if you assume that people are basically sheep who let advertisements lead them by the nose, and don't give a thought to which product(s) would best meet their needs before spending thousands of dollars.

Marketing and Advertisements are not the same...

 

[rrcphoto]

BOOM: "We sell replacement mounts to use Nikkor,Voigtlander SL II and Zeiss ZF lenses on Sony cameras."
http://leitax.com/Voigtlander-lens-for-Sony-cameras.html

Yawn?

 

[scyrene]

All this funny "neurotransmitter" in this forum running out of any constructive arguments...

As always, the market will decide. Sony fanbois will drool and salivate, DPR will fawn over it, and the 5DIV will outsell it by a huge margin.

Which might tell us that the Canon marketing approach is (currently?, still?) more successfull - which is not the same as the product being superior.

Well it ought to be a reminder that 'superior' is a subjective judgment. Even on stats which can be quantified, like resolution, some people want more, others don't. They'd differ on what constitutes superiority. Let alone harder to compare things, like ergonomics, AF systems, etc.

 

[Loswr]

All this funny "neurotransmitter" in this forum running out of any constructive arguments...

As always, the market will decide. Sony fanbois will drool and salivate, DPR will fawn over it, and the 5DIV will outsell it by a huge margin.

Which might tell us that the Canon marketing approach is (currently?, still?) more successfull - which is not the same as the product being superior.

Well it ought to be a reminder that 'superior' is a subjective judgment. Even on stats which can be quantified, like resolution, some people want more, others don't. They'd differ on what constitutes superiority. Let alone harder to compare things, like ergonomics, AF systems, etc.

Exactly. In general, people buy products that best meet their needs. Certainly, everyone's needs vary...in some cases, cost or compatibility with existing gear is most important. 'Best' and 'superior' are subjective, sales data are objective. Based on those data, we know Canon has led the ILC market for >13 years, and that's most likely because the majority of ILC buyers think Canon's products best meet their needs.

 

[romanr74]

All this funny "neurotransmitter" in this forum running out of any constructive arguments...

As always, the market will decide. Sony fanbois will drool and salivate, DPR will fawn over it, and the 5DIV will outsell it by a huge margin.

Which might tell us that the Canon marketing approach is (currently?, still?) more successfull - which is not the same as the product being superior.

Well it ought to be a reminder that 'superior' is a subjective judgment. Even on stats which can be quantified, like resolution, some people want more, others don't. They'd differ on what constitutes superiority. Let alone harder to compare things, like ergonomics, AF systems, etc.

Exactly. In general, people buy products that best meet their needs. Certainly, everyone's needs vary...in some cases, cost or compatibility with existing gear is most important. 'Best' and 'superior' are subjective, sales data are objective. Based on those data, we know Canon has led the ILC market for >13 years, and that's most likely because the majority of ILC buyers think Canon's products best meet their needs.

Which doesn't imply these people are excited with individual products, but they might just consider the switching cost being too high and thus hang on in...

 

[Loswr]

All this funny "neurotransmitter" in this forum running out of any constructive arguments...

As always, the market will decide. Sony fanbois will drool and salivate, DPR will fawn over it, and the 5DIV will outsell it by a huge margin.

Which might tell us that the Canon marketing approach is (currently?, still?) more successfull - which is not the same as the product being superior.

Well it ought to be a reminder that 'superior' is a subjective judgment. Even on stats which can be quantified, like resolution, some people want more, others don't. They'd differ on what constitutes superiority. Let alone harder to compare things, like ergonomics, AF systems, etc.

Exactly. In general, people buy products that best meet their needs. Certainly, everyone's needs vary...in some cases, cost or compatibility with existing gear is most important. 'Best' and 'superior' are subjective, sales data are objective. Based on those data, we know Canon has led the ILC market for >13 years, and that's most likely because the majority of ILC buyers think Canon's products best meet their needs.

Which doesn't imply these people are excited with individual products, but they might just consider the switching cost being too high and thus hang on in...

Nor does it imply that people are not excited with say, the 5DIV. Ultimately, excitement (particularly buzz on the Internet) over a product is irrelevant. What matters is what people actually purchase…and as far as that top line objective measure goes, Canon is vastly superior to Sony in the ILC market.

 

[romanr74]

All this funny "neurotransmitter" in this forum running out of any constructive arguments...

As always, the market will decide. Sony fanbois will drool and salivate, DPR will fawn over it, and the 5DIV will outsell it by a huge margin.

Which might tell us that the Canon marketing approach is (currently?, still?) more successfull - which is not the same as the product being superior.

Well it ought to be a reminder that 'superior' is a subjective judgment. Even on stats which can be quantified, like resolution, some people want more, others don't. They'd differ on what constitutes superiority. Let alone harder to compare things, like ergonomics, AF systems, etc.

Exactly. In general, people buy products that best meet their needs. Certainly, everyone's needs vary...in some cases, cost or compatibility with existing gear is most important. 'Best' and 'superior' are subjective, sales data are objective. Based on those data, we know Canon has led the ILC market for >13 years, and that's most likely because the majority of ILC buyers think Canon's products best meet their needs.

Which doesn't imply these people are excited with individual products, but they might just consider the switching cost being too high and thus hang on in...

Nor does it imply that people are not excited with say, the 5DIV. Ultimately, excitement (particularly buzz on the Internet) over a product is irrelevant. What matters is what people actually purchase…and as far as that top line objective measure goes, Canon is vastly superior to Sony in the ILC market.

This is what matters right now, which is shortsighted. Excitement about a current purchase will have an impact on future purchase decisions.

 

[Loswr]

All this funny "neurotransmitter" in this forum running out of any constructive arguments...

As always, the market will decide. Sony fanbois will drool and salivate, DPR will fawn over it, and the 5DIV will outsell it by a huge margin.

Which might tell us that the Canon marketing approach is (currently?, still?) more successfull - which is not the same as the product being superior.

Well it ought to be a reminder that 'superior' is a subjective judgment. Even on stats which can be quantified, like resolution, some people want more, others don't. They'd differ on what constitutes superiority. Let alone harder to compare things, like ergonomics, AF systems, etc.

Exactly. In general, people buy products that best meet their needs. Certainly, everyone's needs vary...in some cases, cost or compatibility with existing gear is most important. 'Best' and 'superior' are subjective, sales data are objective. Based on those data, we know Canon has led the ILC market for >13 years, and that's most likely because the majority of ILC buyers think Canon's products best meet their needs.

Which doesn't imply these people are excited with individual products, but they might just consider the switching cost being too high and thus hang on in...

Nor does it imply that people are not excited with say, the 5DIV. Ultimately, excitement (particularly buzz on the Internet) over a product is irrelevant. What matters is what people actually purchase…and as far as that top line objective measure goes, Canon is vastly superior to Sony in the ILC market.

This is what matters right now, which is shortsighted. Excitement about a current purchase will have an impact on future purchase decisions.

You've made a small but significant leap in logic there. Excitement about a product does not necessarily translate to excitement about a purchase. Lots of people were 'excited' about the Sony a7 series when it launched in 2013, since then Canon has gained market share. Also, keep in mind that excitement about a purchase can turn sour if the product doesn't perform as expected (e.g. it overheats while shooting video), particularly if the service experience is as horrible as Sony's reputation suggests.

 

[romanr74]

All this funny "neurotransmitter" in this forum running out of any constructive arguments...

As always, the market will decide. Sony fanbois will drool and salivate, DPR will fawn over it, and the 5DIV will outsell it by a huge margin.

Which might tell us that the Canon marketing approach is (currently?, still?) more successfull - which is not the same as the product being superior.

Well it ought to be a reminder that 'superior' is a subjective judgment. Even on stats which can be quantified, like resolution, some people want more, others don't. They'd differ on what constitutes superiority. Let alone harder to compare things, like ergonomics, AF systems, etc.

Exactly. In general, people buy products that best meet their needs. Certainly, everyone's needs vary...in some cases, cost or compatibility with existing gear is most important. 'Best' and 'superior' are subjective, sales data are objective. Based on those data, we know Canon has led the ILC market for >13 years, and that's most likely because the majority of ILC buyers think Canon's products best meet their needs.

Which doesn't imply these people are excited with individual products, but they might just consider the switching cost being too high and thus hang on in...

Nor does it imply that people are not excited with say, the 5DIV. Ultimately, excitement (particularly buzz on the Internet) over a product is irrelevant. What matters is what people actually purchase…and as far as that top line objective measure goes, Canon is vastly superior to Sony in the ILC market.

This is what matters right now, which is shortsighted. Excitement about a current purchase will have an impact on future purchase decisions.

You've made a small but significant leap in logic there. Excitement about a product does not necessarily translate to excitement about a purchase. Lots of people were 'excited' about the Sony a7 series when it launched in 2013, since then Canon has gained market share. Also, keep in mind that excitement about a purchase can turn sour if the product doesn't perform as expected (e.g. it overheats while shooting video), particularly if the service experience is as horrible as Sony's reputation suggests.

The relevant point here is if i buy a camera now, will i be excited about this - or let down by it - either immediately or x weeks/months after, and how will this translate into my next purchase decision.

 

[Loswr]

The relevant point here is if i buy a camera now, will i be excited about this - or let down by it - either immediately or x weeks/months after, and how will this translate into my next purchase decision.

Now, put that in context of the fact that Canon has dominated the ILC market for >13 years, and that Canon was #3 in the MILC segment last year and is likely to move into #2 this year. It would seem a lot more people continue to be excited by Canon products...

 

[romanr74]

The relevant point here is if i buy a camera now, will i be excited about this - or let down by it - either immediately or x weeks/months after, and how will this translate into my next purchase decision.

Now, put that in context of the fact that Canon has dominated the ILC market for >13 years, and that Canon was #3 in the MILC segment last year and is likely to move into #2 this year. It would seem a lot more people continue to be excited by Canon products...

I could have ghostwritten that reply for you to be honest. I am fascinated how in every second post you praise Canon over Sony, where I'm trying to make the general point that current sales is not a perfect indicator for customer satisfaction and hence furure sales.

 

[Loswr]

The relevant point here is if i buy a camera now, will i be excited about this - or let down by it - either immediately or x weeks/months after, and how will this translate into my next purchase decision.

Now, put that in context of the fact that Canon has dominated the ILC market for >13 years, and that Canon was #3 in the MILC segment last year and is likely to move into #2 this year. It would seem a lot more people continue to be excited by Canon products...

I could have ghostwritten that reply for you to be honest. I am fascinated how in every second post you praise Canon over Sony, where I'm trying to make the general point that current sales is not a perfect indicator for customer satisfaction and hence furure sales.

Current and historical sales certainly do affect future purchases...not a perfect indicator, as you state, but a strong one. That's not true for all product classes, but for ILCs, system 'buy-in' is a key factor in future purchase decisions.

Seems you are having trouble distinguishing between praise and statement of fact. Praise: Canon is better than Sony. Fact: Canon has sold more ILCs than Sony or any other manufacturer for well over a decade. Which one sounds more like my statements?

 

[unfocused]

This forum is hilarious. It's dominated by gear heads who equate specifications with success.

This is like watching American football and judging winners and losers by how many first downs each team scores. It's not irrelevant but not accurate either. The competitors and the people who count determine wins based on the scoreboard. In the business world, its profits and return on investment. As long as Canon dominates those areas they'll keep bringing home the championship rings.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing Sony produces interests me.

 

[rrcphoto]

The relevant point here is if i buy a camera now, will i be excited about this - or let down by it - either immediately or x weeks/months after, and how will this translate into my next purchase decision.

Now, put that in context of the fact that Canon has dominated the ILC market for >13 years, and that Canon was #3 in the MILC segment last year and is likely to move into #2 this year. It would seem a lot more people continue to be excited by Canon products...

I could have ghostwritten that reply for you to be honest. I am fascinated how in every second post you praise Canon over Sony, where I'm trying to make the general point that current sales is not a perfect indicator for customer satisfaction and hence furure sales.

it's an indicator of stability of sales - especially in a market where people tend to buy into systems - especially at this level.

so while the A99II body looks amazing, the ecosystem surrounding it wanes in comparison .. badly.

no real lenses created in the last 4+ years, the ecosystem is at a standstill.

the most common workhorse lenses are not best of class, and are the most expensive of the three main players.

the entire A mount has only had 3 cameras out for it including the A77II in the last 2.5 years. APS-C, lower tiered cameras, everything, and just a smattering of DX lenses if that. four cameras from the A58 lower tiered camera in 2013. so basically in the last 4 years, only 4 cameras.

During that time, canon has released 13 APS-C/Full frame cameras. and 11 new lenses.

a difference?

Heck canon has done more on the EF-M mount since 2013 than Sony has done on the A mount, and Sony wants 3K for the camera.

it's easy to see that Sony is rolling the hard six on FE / E mount - and why would I spend 3,000 and countless of $$$ to switch to a more expensive SYSTEM when there's not even a likihood that sony will continue to augment it or improve in the future?

Then you have support .. looking through the dpreview forums.. most are repairing their own, buying parts from sears. precision camera is a joke as is their professional services (would you believe the call center for pro services is only monday through friday, 9 to 5?)

Just ILC Cameras don't take pictures.. lenses, camaras and the entire systematic workflow does and pros need and want a company to back you up.

Canon isn't perfect, there's horror stories there .. however they have a better record than most .. especially after the wake up call of the Mark III.

 

[Sabaki]

Does anybody know the percentage of Canon sales being done in the US, Japan and England versus the rest of the world?

 

[rrcphoto]

Does anybody know the percentage of Canon sales being done in the US, Japan and England versus the rest of the world?

it's bound to be higher in EU and NA because DSLR's are more popular there than Asia. but it's hard to tell such a breakdown because of their mirrorless amount in Asia as well.

Canon doesn't break it down, heck Canon doesn't even usually in their annuals attempt to brag about marketshare (unlike some that make up stats)


canon has around a 41% marketshare in a normal year of ALL ILC sales. this year because of the earthquake and Sony problems, canon has a 49% marketshare in the first half of the year

 

[meywd]

The relevant point here is if i buy a camera now, will i be excited about this - or let down by it - either immediately or x weeks/months after, and how will this translate into my next purchase decision.

Now, put that in context of the fact that Canon has dominated the ILC market for >13 years, and that Canon was #3 in the MILC segment last year and is likely to move into #2 this year. It would seem a lot more people continue to be excited by Canon products...

I could have ghostwritten that reply for you to be honest. I am fascinated how in every second post you praise Canon over Sony, where I'm trying to make the general point that current sales is not a perfect indicator for customer satisfaction and hence furure sales.

And when the time comes, you will not care about the future sales because BOOM they are now current sales.