No 5D Mark III on Novemeber 3 [CR2]

[ianhar]

<sarcasm>

Well... Looks like everyone will just have to settle and deal with that piece of junk mkII... :

< / sarcasm>


C'mon folks.... who are you kidding? (directed at anyone that feels that this delay is apocalypse as we know it)
I mean, I want the 5DmkIII released just as bad as the next guy... considering that my jump to FF has been directly linked to this release. But even I can't complain. I have an amazingly adequate 7D + glass that let's me do anything from helping me create the professional work that pays my bills, to letting me get completely creative in trying to express and capture what it is my brain is processing.

I understand that the current mkII could be improved on in a number aspects, but I don't believe that the camera is holding anyone back from being able to work or play at full potential. Need faster AF? rent/acquire a 7D. Need more FPS, MP annnd need to stay Full Frame? Rent/use/borrow/purchase a 1D. Besides, if a job demands that much performance from equipment - the pay should more than cover the small investment on equipment AND your upgrade once the DSLR's are announced.

I'm done venting. It's just I feel that sometimes people lose track of the fact that a camera is a tool. Like a pencil, photoshop, phillips head screw drivers.. etc. A tool helps us carry out a task... but it is impossible for the task to be carried out without the tool being in skilled hands. In other words, I can't wait for that release, but until then... I will be just fine with what I got.

It isn't a tool for all of us. To use an apt analogy, an SLR could be the weekend race car to some of us. We dont need it's utility, we have it because we want it, even if none of us will ever drive it like Schumacher, Stewart or Andretti. Indeed, I think shooting is more fun than speculating about future releases but, like many other toys (or tools, depending on who you talk to), we sometimes just want a new one.

Not really a smart reason to push a new camera release ehh?? So everytime you get a new toy and play it for minutes then you will throw away and ask for a new cause you are bored with it? Jeez you must be really2 spoilt kid

 

[HurtinMinorKey]

There is no chance we will see a new 5D for at least a year. It just doesn't make any sense to release it anywhere close to the 1X. Not to mention, the traditional difference in release has been 5D a year after 1Ds ii, and 5D mkii a year after 1Ds iii.

 

[alchera75]

There is no chance we will see a new 5D for at least a year. It just doesn't make any sense to release it anywhere close to the 1X. Not to mention, the traditional difference in release has been 5D a year after 1Ds ii, and 5D mkii a year after 1Ds iii.

Yeah it does if you actually look at who would potentially buy a 5D MkIII v a 1D X ... its all in who they are marketed too and what is on offer within the bodies.

If they put enough distance between the two then there is no worries of one butchering the other's sales ... the only reason they would space out the releases would be either they have been in R&D and testing mode with the 1D X and as such the 5D MkIII may be behind because of that ... or that the bodies have a lot of similarities and those who would purchase a 1D would be tempted to by the 5D because of that.

People need to get things back to basics here. It is pretty simple. Combine what is new (and what they are able to achieve) with who they are selling it to (segments) ... you then begin to realise that things will fall into place based on the 1D release (whenever that will be).

Canon will not look to butcher their line up by making similar bodies ... there will be significant differences that will be enough for anyone even considering a FF to disseminate between the two (and any other FF they may bring to market).

 

[Isaac]

There is no chance we will see a new 5D for at least a year. It just doesn't make any sense to release it anywhere close to the 1X. Not to mention, the traditional difference in release has been 5D a year after 1Ds ii, and 5D mkii a year after 1Ds iii.

What do you mean "no chance"?

You have no idea what Canon is planning for the 5D3. It may be released in the next few days, next month, March 2012, June 2012, September 2012 etc. We have not had this situation before where this is EOS 's 25th year with olympics also it's over it's 3 year cycle significantly by the time it gets shipped.

Why can't Canon release the 5D3 near the 1DX - firstly they're reshuffling their lineup and secondly the 1DX and 5D3 are totally different target markets.

The truth is, no one knows when Canon are releasing the 5D3. It may be in 1 week, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months etc. So it's best just to wait and see.

 

[wockawocka]

According to hte bods at PRo Solutions something nice is appearing on the 3rd.

No idea what that is though. But it's good.

 

[Loswr]

There is no chance we will see a new 5D for at least a year. It just doesn't make any sense to release it anywhere close to the 1X. Not to mention, the traditional difference in release has been 5D a year after 1Ds ii, and 5D mkii a year after 1Ds iii.

Yeah it does if you actually look at who would potentially buy a 5D MkIII v a 1D X ... its all in who they are marketed too and what is on offer within the bodies.

Canon will not look to butcher their line up by making similar bodies ... there will be significant differences that will be enough for anyone even considering a FF to disseminate between the two (and any other FF they may bring to market).

In many ways, the 5DII 'butchered' the 1DsIII sales, and many 1Ds customers got a 5DII instead for the video and other reasons. I agree that Canon will want to avoid that in the future.

The thing is, as the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Canon does have to differentiate the 1D X from the 5DIII, and there are a couple of ways to do that. One is time - the 5DIII comes out a year, or more (!) after the 1D X. The other is features, and especially if the 5DIII is going to have more MP, count on it being substantially crippled in other ways - most likely frame rate and the AF system. From a marketing standpoint, the two ways are probably on a continuum, i.e. the closer in time that the 5DIII comes compared to the 1D X, the more crippled is has to be.

So...people waiting for a 5DIII - do you want it announced on November 3rd, if it has 26 MP, 4 fps and the exact same AF as the 5DII? Do you want it announced in March when the 1D X comes out, if it has 30 MP, 4.2 fps, and the 9 cross-type points of the xxD line? Or do you want to wait for a late 2012 announcement with 2013 availability, if it has 36 MP, 4.5 fps, and 15 cross-type points?

 

[lol]

So...people waiting for a 5DIII - do you want it announced on November 3rd, if it has 26 MP, 4 fps and the exact same AF as the 5DII? Do you want it announced in March when the 1D X comes out, if it has 30 MP, 4.2 fps, and the 9 cross-type points of the xxD line? Or do you want to wait for a late 2012 announcement with 2013 availability, if it has 36 MP, 4.5 fps, and 15 cross-type points?

Alternative option, increased price:
I want it out "soon", 35MP+, 4fps, 7D style AF, price position increased somewhere between 5D2 and 1D lines. I'll pay more for more, without going into 1D territory. It doesn't have to be called 5D3 but would be in a 5D/7D style body not 1D style body. Anyone else with me on this?

 

[Loswr]

Alternative option, increased price:
I want it out "soon", 35MP+, 4fps, 7D style AF, price position increased somewhere between 5D2 and 1D lines. I'll pay more for more, without going into 1D territory. It doesn't have to be called 5D3 but would be in a 5D/7D style body not 1D style body. Anyone else with me on this?

I like the idea, but honestly, I think you'll have a whole lot of people with you in spirit...but not in wallet. One of the reasons for the 5DII's massive success was it's (relatively) affordable price tag, that put it within reach of committed amateurs. It was no accident that Canon bucked economic and internal historical trends to release the 5DII at a price substantially lower than the original 5D. While I can certainly see an increased price for the 5DIII relative to launch price of the 5DII, I can't see it going over $3K - and IMO it would need to be ~$4K for 'soon' and '35+ MP, 4 fps, 7Dlike AF).

Would you pay $4K for that? If Canon's market research tells them there are a lot of 'you' out there, we might well see a different nD camera with those specs, and the proposed splitting of the 5D line might be to a video-oriented 5DIII (with the 1D X's 18 MP sensor) in the $2.5-3K range and a new xD line with high MP (and probably down to 3 MP, and unfortunately, still with a handicapped AF). I know that I keep harping on AF, but looking at Canon's history vis-a-vis Nikon, in very broad terms Nikon has delivered good AF across all the lines, and differentiated based on resolution, while Canon has delivered good resolution across all the lines and differentiated based on AF.

 

[ianhar]

So...people waiting for a 5DIII - do you want it announced on November 3rd, if it has 26 MP, 4 fps and the exact same AF as the 5DII? Do you want it announced in March when the 1D X comes out, if it has 30 MP, 4.2 fps, and the 9 cross-type points of the xxD line? Or do you want to wait for a late 2012 announcement with 2013 availability, if it has 36 MP, 4.5 fps, and 15 cross-type points?

Alternative option, increased price:
I want it out "soon", 35MP+, 4fps, 7D style AF, price position increased somewhere between 5D2 and 1D lines. I'll pay more for more, without going into 1D territory. It doesn't have to be called 5D3 but would be in a 5D/7D style body not 1D style body. Anyone else with me on this?

This would happen with $6000 price tag. Since the price gap is really big now. The next 5d mk iii might as well take the 1d price if it is coming soon

 

[niko]

Alternative option, increased price:
I want it out "soon", 35MP+, 4fps, 7D style AF, price position increased somewhere between 5D2 and 1D lines. I'll pay more for more, without going into 1D territory. It doesn't have to be called 5D3 but would be in a 5D/7D style body not 1D style body. Anyone else with me on this?

I like the idea, but honestly, I think you'll have a whole lot of people with you in spirit...but not in wallet. One of the reasons for the 5DII's massive success was it's (relatively) affordable price tag, that put it within reach of committed amateurs. It was no accident that Canon bucked economic and internal historical trends to release the 5DII at a price substantially lower than the original 5D. While I can certainly see an increased price for the 5DIII relative to launch price of the 5DII, I can't see it going over $3K - and IMO it would need to be ~$4K for 'soon' and '35+ MP, 4 fps, 7Dlike AF).

Would you pay $4K for that? If Canon's market research tells them there are a lot of 'you' out there, we might well see a different nD camera with those specs, and the proposed splitting of the 5D line might be to a video-oriented 5DIII (with the 1D X's 18 MP sensor) in the $2.5-3K range and a new xD line with high MP (and probably down to 3 MP, and unfortunately, still with a handicapped AF). I know that I keep harping on AF, but looking at Canon's history vis-a-vis Nikon, in very broad terms Nikon has delivered good AF across all the lines, and differentiated based on resolution, while Canon has delivered good resolution across all the lines and differentiated based on AF.

All of these are valid points however there are large differences between 1Dx and 1Ds3 which are not accounted for. The 1DX competes in the photo journalist/sports segments where autofocus, speed and low light performance are key to capturing the image, while the 1Ds3 was meant to be a high res studio/landscape camera, where the autofocus and weather sealing are not as important as resolution and dynamic range (which is what the 5D2 delivered for 1/3 of the price).

I believe Canon will not put comparable features, in relation to the segment where the cameras compete, however there is large room for improvement from the current 5D features without encroaching in the 1DX territory.

 

[torger]

I think Canon will have to release a high resolution FF body, if not to respond to nikon's (rumoured) 36 megapixel D800.

My hope is that they release two more FF bodies, one "lower end" perhaps even cheaper than 5Dmk2 is today, with say 18 megapixels resolution with a bit lesser build quality not superfast and no super AF (but really good video of course) which aim for the masses, and then a mid-end high res FF body (30-40 megapixels), say $3500-$4000, build quality considerably better than 5Dmk2 (should work for outdoor professionals) but will be slow and may not have the best AF. A camera to fill the 1DsIII void but a price point more accessible to those serious amateurs that like high res photo (landscape photography is not big among professionals, but big among amateurs).

I would go for the high res version, that is what I want.

 

[Mark D5 TEAM II]

Amazing, it has been exactly one month since this was posted and it's still "Novemeber".

Anyway, the 5D3 should also have "3 sensors" and "gapless mirrors" like the 1Dx allegedly has according to PhotoTips.biz. ;D

 

[Picsfor]

Ok, having now played with the 1DX, I can say that if Canon released a 5D3 with 30+mp sensor, 5D2 frame rate, 7D focusing, 12800 usable ISO and improved video for £2200, it would not interfere with the 1DX market.

It might impact on MF sales though...and I think it would carry on the 5D legacy whilst assisting the reinvention of the 1D brand...

 

[Loswr]

Further, it could have fewer AF sensor spots and it would make no difference to *me*. If I mount it on a tripod, I don't even use the AF sensor at all and probably never will again - with live view I can precisely select where I what I want to focus.

I'll bet there are a lot of people who feel that way, and Canon knows it, and that's the market segment for a high MP camera. Which is exactly why such a camera won't get a '7D-like AF'.

But if the price was $3000, would people expect weather sealing?
Would they expect dual card slots?If Canon splits the 5D and bring out a FF DSLR that undercuts the A9x on price, how do they keep it, the 5D successor, the 1DX and 7D successor all different?

LOL. Of course some people will. The 7D at half that price has better weather sealing. But then, some people expect all that and a bag of chips for a song.

I also wonder if the build quality will stay the same - i.e. no weather sealing on the 5D3. That won't upset the folks using the camera to shoot video, nor those in the studio, just the hoards on the internet forums that won't buy it because it isn't 100% weather sealed (well, they wouldn't have bought it anyway, but if they want to pretend, why should we stop them?)

Careful there...that's perilously close to sounding elitist and discriminatory...and goodness knows, that sort of attitude has no place on these forums. :

 

[Loswr]

So out of curiosity, I'm looking at the EOS 1v vs EOS 3 (the EOS 3 replaced the EOS 5)

Notable differences (aside from the build):

...and frame rate.

 

[hambergler]

There is no chance we will see a new 5D for at least a year. It just doesn't make any sense to release it anywhere close to the 1X. Not to mention, the traditional difference in release has been 5D a year after 1Ds ii, and 5D mkii a year after 1Ds iii.

Yeah it does if you actually look at who would potentially buy a 5D MkIII v a 1D X ... its all in who they are marketed too and what is on offer within the bodies.

Canon will not look to butcher their line up by making similar bodies ... there will be significant differences that will be enough for anyone even considering a FF to disseminate between the two (and any other FF they may bring to market).

In many ways, the 5DII 'butchered' the 1DsIII sales, and many 1Ds customers got a 5DII instead for the video and other reasons. I agree that Canon will want to avoid that in the future.

The thing is, as the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Canon does have to differentiate the 1D X from the 5DIII, and there are a couple of ways to do that. One is time - the 5DIII comes out a year, or more (!) after the 1D X. The other is features, and especially if the 5DIII is going to have more MP, count on it being substantially crippled in other ways - most likely frame rate and the AF system. From a marketing standpoint, the two ways are probably on a continuum, i.e. the closer in time that the 5DIII comes compared to the 1D X, the more crippled is has to be.

So...people waiting for a 5DIII - do you want it announced on November 3rd, if it has 26 MP, 4 fps and the exact same AF as the 5DII? Do you want it announced in March when the 1D X comes out, if it has 30 MP, 4.2 fps, and the 9 cross-type points of the xxD line? Or do you want to wait for a late 2012 announcement with 2013 availability, if it has 36 MP, 4.5 fps, and 15 cross-type points?

You forgot to factor in what Nikon does as well.

The D700's AF system is infinitely better than that of the 5d mk II. It's biggest gripe with most people is the lack of video which I'm sure they will be correcting this time around.

I'd much rather they cripple the FPS (3FPS) than the AF. The D700 already has a 51 point system which is IMO better than everything currently available on the market besides the 1DX

IMO drop

weather sealing
magnesium body
lack of battery grip
dual card slots
worse FPS
worse ISO
smaller/worse LCD
less viewfinder coverage

if there isn't even 3x5 cross type points imo this camera will be a major disappointment.

This is assuming they are going to a 30+ MP sensor.

IMO they should design it to complement the 1DX and with that than it will be tempting to pick one up along with the 1DX.

 

[Loswr]

You forgot to factor in what Nikon does as well.

The D700 already has a 51 point system which is IMO better than everything currently available on the market besides the 1DX

Not really. As I've stated before, the real competition between the two companies plays out on the battlefield of P&S cameras and entry-level dSLRs. By the time comsumers are considering a high-end or pro body, most are invested in a system and inertia means they won't switch (empty threats on internet forums notwithstanding).

Why is the D700's AF better? It's got 51 points, but if that's the basis, then more MP automatically make a camera better, too. Physics and geometry tell us that the wider the baseline for a triangulation measurement, the more accurate the measurment. AFAIK, all Nikon AF systems use f/5.6-sensitive line sensors. Canon systems have up to f/2.8-sensitive line sensors, which are more accurate than f/5.6-sensitive points. Just one more thing to consider...

 

[Mark D5 TEAM II]

Also, until now Nikon still can't figure out how to make cross-type sensors away from the center of the frame, even their much-ballyhooed 51-pt. AF sensor only has cross-type sensors in a narrow 3x5 column in the center, an incremental improvement over the 45-pt. AF w/ 7 cross-type center AF points from the first EOS-1 models in the 90's. They don't even have dedicated AF CPUs, so many users resort to using only 11 or 21 of those 51pts. to increase responsiveness and initial acquisition.

 

[HurtinMinorKey]

There is no chance we will see a new 5D for at least a year. It just doesn't make any sense to release it anywhere close to the 1X. Not to mention, the traditional difference in release has been 5D a year after 1Ds ii, and 5D mkii a year after 1Ds iii.

What do you mean "no chance"?

You have no idea what Canon is planning for the 5D3. It may be released in the next few days, next month, March 2012, June 2012, September 2012 etc. We have not had this situation before where this is EOS 's 25th year with olympics also it's over it's 3 year cycle significantly by the time it gets shipped.

Why can't Canon release the 5D3 near the 1DX - firstly they're reshuffling their lineup and secondly the 1DX and 5D3 are totally different target markets.

Totally different markets? I doubt that. They'd have to nerf the 5dmrkiii pretty bad for it not to cannibalize any 1DX sales. I agree with neuroanatomist when he says that "time" is a good way to differentiate the two. Plus the mrkii is still selling well. So for all of the reasons mentioned, the probability of getting your hands on a 5Diii within a year is very low.

But for the sake of discussion, say they did want to differentiate it with fps. Would people be happy with 36MP at 2fps(slower than its predecessor)?

 

[hambergler]

You forgot to factor in what Nikon does as well.

The D700 already has a 51 point system which is IMO better than everything currently available on the market besides the 1DX

Not really. As I've stated before, the real competition between the two companies plays out on the battlefield of P&S cameras and entry-level dSLRs. By the time comsumers are considering a high-end or pro body, most are invested in a system and inertia means they won't switch (empty threats on internet forums notwithstanding).

Why is the D700's AF better? It's got 51 points, but if that's the basis, then more MP automatically make a camera better, too. Physics and geometry tell us that the wider the baseline for a triangulation measurement, the more accurate the measurment. AFAIK, all Nikon AF systems use f/5.6-sensitive line sensors. Canon systems have up to f/2.8-sensitive line sensors, which are more accurate than f/5.6-sensitive points. Just one more thing to consider...

More is definitely not better but in this case I would take Nikons AF system over the 19 point in the 7D which people have been clamoring for.

I own a 7D. Have used a D700 and a 5d/5d Mk II. D700 AF is much better in low light than the other 3 (Canon 7D, 5D II, and 5D. That said I have not used the 1D Mark IV or 1Ds Mark III so am unfamiliar with canon's 51 point system.