Opinion: A Material Delay – A Likely Reason for Camera Delays and Production Issues

[Canon Rumors]

Manufacturers will need to consider alternative alloys then. The Nikon F2 had a cast aluminium chassis with brass top/bottom plates and this seems to have been how professional cameras were generally designed before the move to cast magnesium alloys. Nobody complained about that and I haven't heard of anyone with the slightest trace of sense say the F1-F3 aren't durable cameras for professional use. Even the EOS-1 had an aluminium frame. Engineering polymers might be the way forward.

I guess it comes down to what trade-offs work for you?

I'm not sure about the equipment differences of producing either for a camera chassis.

Aluminum Die Casting	Magnesium Die Casting
Cheaper than magnesium	Costlier than aluminum
Alloys are mainly cast using a cold chamber equipment	Most die casting alloys require hot chamber equipment
Casting cycles are longer	Has very short casting cycles
Parts are more stable under stress	Has poor tensile strength and not so stable
Parts are Heavier than magnesium	Parts are lighter than aluminum
Cannot achieve thinner wall than magnesium	Can achieve thinner wall than aluminum
Has excellent corrosion resistance	Has poor corrosion resistance

 

[Richard CR]

I guess it comes down to what trade-offs work for you?

I'm not sure about the equipment differences of producing either for a camera chassis.

Aluminum Die Casting	Magnesium Die Casting
Cheaper than magnesium	Costlier than aluminum
Alloys are mainly cast using a cold chamber equipment	Most die casting alloys require hot chamber equipment
Casting cycles are longer	Has very short casting cycles
Parts are more stable under stress	Has poor tensile strength and not so stable
Parts are Heavier than magnesium	Parts are lighter than aluminum
Cannot achieve thinner wall than magnesium	Can achieve thinner wall than aluminum
Has excellent corrosion resistance	Has poor corrosion resistance

we're all going to be metallurgy nerds at the end of this.

and here y'all thought it was just a canon rumors site.

 

[Canon Rumors]

we're all going to be metallurgy nerds at the end of this.

and here y'all thought it was just a canon rumors site.

This may just improve my Civilization VI outcomes.

 

[josephandrews222]

Why do I choose to visit and contribute to CR?

Because I learn things, and because it's fun. This article qualifies on both counts.

Well done!

Perhaps the title of CR could also be 'Canon Speculation'.

 

[PerKr]

I guess it comes down to what trade-offs work for you?

I'm not sure about the equipment differences of producing either for a camera chassis.

Aluminum Die Casting	Magnesium Die Casting
Cheaper than magnesium	Costlier than aluminum
Alloys are mainly cast using a cold chamber equipment	Most die casting alloys require hot chamber equipment
Casting cycles are longer	Has very short casting cycles
Parts are more stable under stress	Has poor tensile strength and not so stable
Parts are Heavier than magnesium	Parts are lighter than aluminum
Cannot achieve thinner wall than magnesium	Can achieve thinner wall than aluminum
Has excellent corrosion resistance	Has poor corrosion resistance

Let's not forget stamped and welded steel alternatives, including stainless. Or indeed Zinc. Some compromises will have to be made. The current compromise seems to be that we pay more while they produce less at a higher cost and can't supply according to demand. And we're not getting that nice brassing that you get with older cameras over time. Maybe the market prefers this compromise for mid to upper tier cameras

 

[Canon Rumors]

Let's not forget stamped and welded steel alternatives, including stainless. Or indeed Zinc. Some compromises will have to be made. The current compromise seems to be that we pay more while they produce less at a higher cost and can't supply according to demand. And we're not getting that nice brassing that you get with older cameras over time. Maybe the market prefers this compromise for mid to upper tier cameras

This market is certainly allergic to plastics from a marketing standpoint, but there are some pretty remarkable types. No idea what they cost.

 

[Graeme]

Interesting opinion. Got me to thinking that photographers probably have several lens or old bodies that are never used; canon should offer option to collect for recycling and reward with discount for new camera etc

 

[Richard CR]

Interesting opinion. Got me to thinking that photographers probably have several lens or old bodies that are never used; canon should offer option to collect for recycling and reward with discount for new camera etc

almost as bad as dissolving down your old electronics for gold!

 

[bergstrom]

Damn well written article

 

[Richard CR]

This may just improve my Civilization VI outcomes.

Sid Meier approves of this message.

 

[koenkooi]

still 60% higher than before all this happened, it's easing, but it's still a problem. The spike was SO high that it's distorting the fact that it's still significantly more expensive.

Then we have .. who's getting it? [...]

Your theory puts Apples "Macbooks are made from 100% recycled aluminium" claim in a new light as well, combined with the increased marketing on the trade-in offers.

 

[Navism]

I remember I read a canon news last year

Canon develops quantum dot OLED materials without rare metals

Japan company's new material can reduce reliance on Chinese indium

asia.nikkei.com

many rare materials are from China is not good for business.
At least Canon can save some materialsto make Oled

 

[Richard CR]

many rare materials are from China is not good for business.
At least Canon can save some materialsto make Oled

any rare materials aren't good for business regardless of country of origin. the best way is to drag an asteroid into orbit and have at it. maybe we'll get there some day.

 

[Canon Rumors]

I remember I read a canon news last year

Canon develops quantum dot OLED materials without rare metals

Japan company's new material can reduce reliance on Chinese indium

asia.nikkei.com

many rare materials are from China is not good for business.
At least Canon can save some materialsto make Oled

Magnesium is abundant, but..... it has happened anyway. Wild stuff.

 

[koenkooi]

any rare materials aren't good for business regardless of country of origin. the best way is to drag an asteroid into orbit and have at it. maybe we'll get there some day.

But first we'll want 'asteriod detect AF' and "blue marble AI cloud removal" in the cameras the crew takes with them

 

[juststeve]

Fascinating article and points to what is likely a major contributor to camera and lens shortages and delays.

I wonder if another possible contributor is a shortage of resistors and capacitors. Even the most modern of electrical circuits are going to use considerable numbers and I have a feeling there are a couple of factories in China which supply everyone. Capacitors also use various rare earth metals of which China is the major producer. Some of the factors which contribute to magnesium shortages could also apply to the production of resistors and capacitors, perhaps even more so when the components are miniaturized.

Both modern cameras and lenses will need resistors and capacitors.

 

[Bonich]

Interesting point - my initial reaction was that I'm surprised that the amount of magnesium camera manufacturers use for upmarket bodies (surely not that large in world magnesium production terms?) would be affected by shortages / changes in demand by other industries. But, I guess a shortage is a shortage. They were obviously affected by chip shortages a couple of years ago, and their usage can't be that high in world terms.

It's also the case that magnesium is being researched and developed for use in EV batteries, as an alternative to lithium-ion batteries. If that comes to fruition, then whatever shortages there are now are going to be a drop in the ocean compared to the future!

1 R1 camera needs by far less magnesium than an EV's battery but is comparable in price..
So the money should favor the camera!

 

[3kramd5]

I give the theory a wholehearted *maybe.*

A producer cannot source a given material will likely design for a different material.

This market is certainly allergic to plastics from a marketing standpoint, but there are some pretty remarkable types. No idea what they cost.

That's easily overcome. Just put a few carbon fibers in it and nobody cares about the plastic anymore

 

[Canon Rumors]

I give the theory a wholehearted *maybe.*

A producer cannot source a given material will likely design for a different material.

I'm sure researching new materials is an ongoing thing.

Canon is a manufacturing company... so they R&D a lot of their own production tools and processes. You're not doing that in a couple of years for a quick pivot.

Retooling is not a flick the switch sort of thing. Others with more knowledge can chime in.

 

[3kramd5]

I'm sure researching new materials is an ongoing thing.

However, what if you can't get the production machinery to utilise your knew material? Retooling is not a flick the switch sort of thing. Others with more knowledge can chime in.

Canon likely does not do the casting or post machining. If your vendor of choice can't work with a new material, you go to a different vendor.

Most large companies with hardware production consider Diminishing Manufacturing Sources / Material Shortages (DMS/MS) a major risk, and execute accordingly. In my industry, for example, we are typically required by contract to ensure we have at least 6 years to end of life for newly developed hardware. However, that doesn't always work out. While there are industry tools (Accuris BOM Intelligence, SiliconExpert, etc.) that predict availability, sometimes we get surprised by companies shutting down entire lines, and if form/fit/function replacements aren't available, we have to re-design. I have not run into material shortages for metal, but have for circuit board laminates.