overnight flight next to Canon engineer...

[Orangutan]

Steven63: have you ever used Live View? If so, then you have used video mode, you just haven't recorded your video. Video Mode is little more than saving the data used for Live View.

I bought a 5dmii in June for the FF and low light abilities. I've yet to switch it over to video mode. I couldn't care less about it.

 

[Freshprince08]

I've just ordered the 5dii.

Therefore expect a [CR3] post within 48 hours.....!

 

[Dave]

Mobile phones get *** information from base stations, not *** satellites and that's only on newer phones. So a 100 Dollar mobile phone isn't a *** receiver in the same way that a *** navigator is

Nope, I mean a REAL *** phone. I've just saw an Android phone with *** for 129 Bucks (tax included). Okay, a no name cellphone, but 129 bucks!
So why does a camera who costs more than ten times that much NOT have this really usefull feature?

 

[wellfedCanuck]

Summarizing: your "dream" cameras exist as prototypes
but are too expensive to become market models

My "dream cam" is a 7D with a flip screen, WLan and ***. And that's definetly not expensive. Every 100-Dollar mobile phone has features like that.

Mobile phones get *** information from base stations, not *** satellites and that's only on newer phones. So a 100 Dollar mobile phone isn't a *** receiver in the same way that a *** navigator is. Thus there's no special hardware required for *** information in mobile phones.

That's not true. Most smart phones will aproximate a position using the cell network and then lock in a position with the ***. But- there are apps that are network-independant and will give you a *** position even when you're off the grid. I've tried this for myself way out in the Canadian wilderness.

 

[Bruce Photography]

Steven63: have you ever used Live View? If so, then you have used video mode, you just haven't recorded your video. Video Mode is little more than saving the data used for Live View.

I bought a 5dmii in June for the FF and low light abilities. I've yet to switch it over to video mode. I couldn't care less about it.

I too highly value Live View to compose the image, meter zones (approx.), and magnify the image 10x to get pin point focus without having to move the camera and change the composition. I just recently added the 60d to my list of bodies and I'm very impressed with the Canon implementation of the the tiltable screen. I plan to generate a new thread about the advantages of having a tilt screen. I'm hoping only people that either own a 60d or have rented it and used it for at least a week will add to the discussion. I way swayed against the tilt when I saw so many commenters talk about making the lcd more fraile. Now that I've actually used it for awhile, I think that is a very empty argument put forth by people who haven't used the 60D in the field and seen how the rescessed frame that the lcd sits in protects the lcd when seated. Great Implementation!

 

[Lawliet]

It opened up a completely new look for cinematographers and directors that was, no more than 5 years ago, only available on $250,000 camera systems.

Only to those who had no clue in the first place. Adapting a normal HD cam to offer the same look as a 35mm, of MF/LF/anything artisticly desired for that point, shouldn't challenge a DoP who is worth his salt.
OTOH none of the VDSLRs offer even basic features, like trouble free interaction with most of the better lights. What good is a cheaper cam if the additional rental and fuel bills exeed the costs of a dedicated movie cam? And that doesn't figure in costs for pick-ups/reshoots caused by camere quirks.

 

[Macadameane]

Summarizing: your "dream" cameras exist as prototypes
but are too expensive to become market models

My "dream cam" is a 7D with a flip screen, WLan and ***. And that's definetly not expensive. Every 100-Dollar mobile phone has features like that.

Mobile phones get *** information from base stations, not *** satellites and that's only on newer phones. So a 100 Dollar mobile phone isn't a *** receiver in the same way that a *** navigator is. Thus there's no special hardware required for *** information in mobile phones.

That's not true. Most smart phones will aproximate a position using the cell network and then lock in a position with the ***. But- there are apps that are network-independant and will give you a *** position even when you're off the grid. I've tried this for myself way out in the Canadian wilderness.

I can confirm that the Android has ways to operate both. I write android software for work, and the phones do pick up both from cell provider nets and ***.

 

[NormanBates]

to all those stating "if I wanted to do video I'd get a videocam": maybe with the recent sony FS100 and F3, and panasonic AF100, that may start to be the a good idea, but prior to that, it was definitely no; it's just shows you have no idea what you're talking about

searching IMDB, for number of films shot using...

5D2 = 1640
7D = 1290

DVX100 = 1620
EX1 = 772
EX3 = 338
XL1 = 156
XL2 = 32

if you don't know WHY, you can ask

http://www.google.com/search?q=canon+5D+site%3Aimdb.com%2Ftitle&hl=en&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.google.com/search?q=canon+7D+site%3Aimdb.com%2Ftitle&hl=en&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.google.com/search?q=dvx100+site%3Aimdb.com%2Ftitle&hl=en&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.google.com/search?q=sony+ex1+site%3Aimdb.com%2Ftitle&hl=en&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.google.com/search?q=sony+ex3+site%3Aimdb.com%2Ftitle&hl=en&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.google.com/search?q=canon+xl2+site%3Aimdb.com%2Ftitle&hl=en&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.google.com/search?q=canon+xl1+site%3Aimdb.com%2Ftitle&hl=en&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=


edit: oh, and you might say: "yes, but that means 20K bodies sold for video, tops!"
the answer is that there's much more video shot with these cameras besides movies big and small
nearly every ad or music video you see today was shot using a DSLR

 

[Bob Howland]

the answer is that there's much more video shot with these cameras besides movies big and small
nearly every ad or music video you see today was shot using a DSLR

Show me the data please. And what about the home improvement and science documentaries that I watch, not to mention weddings, events and corporate training videos? These people seem to move way too fast to use anything with manual focus. Plus there is so much DOF that either the lens is stopped way down or they are using a relatively small sensor.

 

[Lawliet]

Show me the data please.

Thats where something funny happens: use a VDSLR for a single shot an it shows up in the IMDB query. Even if the shot was redone due to moire/aliasing/fringing isssues making it unusable.

Also I was quite surprised to see some music videos declared as having been shot with a VDSLR - yet I'm quite positive we made(but not released) them before the respective cameras where available. It seems DoF can be misleading.

 

[kubelik]

I think people are exaggerating the issue to either direction, but the reality is somewhere in between.

the 5D Mark II was revolutionary when it came out and even well into its lifecycle now it remains a highly functional tool that offers unbeatable creative potential for its price.

for those who think everything is shot with a DSLR nowadays ... that's just out and out wrong.

but for those who think it 5DII video isn't worth a damn ... apparently it was good enough for portions of Iron Man 2 http://www.petapixel.com/2010/09/29/canon-5d-mark-ii-used-for-iron-man-2/ I watched it in theater and at home in HD, and those scenes look pretty darn good to me

with the new large-sensor video cameras with proper video form factors being released by Sony and Panasonic, the reliance on the 5DII will wane. but, that being said, any of those systems are still several times the price of a 5DII, and so there will still be a market for cheap 5DII's from indie filmmakers and DPs who want to be able to destroy their equipment

 

[NormanBates]

all I tried to prove with those IMDB numbers was that people making movies, even when they have the budget for shooting with film*, usually turn over to DSLRs when they need a smaller form factor; and they wouldn't "just use a camcorder" if you paid them $1.000.000 to do so

* yes, Ironman2, but also Black Swan, Captain America, 127 hours, Red Tails... and that's just from the first page in the google search

I know not everything is shot with DSLRs nowadays; as I said, just most of the stuff

and yes, some wedding videographers are also moving to DSLRs (this summer I attended one where they were shooting with three 5D2s)

this is one big budget music video shot with a 5D2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frv6FOt1BNI
you can search youtube for the BTS, where you'll see no cameras except DSLRs

and in the end, this is what all this boils down to: you can't say the 5D3 will cost you more because it will come with improved video; me (and lots of people like me) buying that camera will pay for those development costs

 

[CanineCandidsByL]

We seem to be heading off topic with all the video, no video talk. But I'm going to head that way too.

I agree that the opinions are a bit biosed, but both are very true, but are taken out of context to the point of no longer reflecting truth. Confused yet? Time to simplify...

Side A: SLR video is better than camcorders
Side B: SLR video is worse than camcorders.

A: True; Because the quality of the video exceeds what most camcorders are doing. I give some of the credit to the sensor and some to the optics. The software may also have an effect since it was designed with professional in mind (remember, it was intended to give pro-photographers/photo journalists a video option).

B: True; Because SLRs don't come close to supporting the features like auto focus, auto-apatuer, auto-everything. Most camcorder people want the video version of point-and-shoot. SLR cameras are very manual.

Curiously, many camcorder "semi-pros" have been complaining forever that their camcorders don't give them manual controls. This makes SLR cameras seem like the perfect thing. However, even video pros, often want the simplicity of automation.

I think the fairest thing we can say about SLR video is that it gives video quality that rivals much higher end profesional video cameras, but does it without much of the automation that most people want/need most of the time. When SLRs can deliver more automation, we should see complaints go away except from those who feel like its adding cost to a device they only use for photographs. That camp will be getting smaller all the time as more of us use the video, at least occasionally.

 

[Lawliet]

since it was designed with professional in mind (remember, it was intended to give pro-photographers/photo journalists a video option).

Thats the problem - it wasn't designed with professional use in mind, most of the problems are actually caused firm-/software. A 5D2 can deliver good quality, but for example breaks down completely the moment someone wearing the wrong fabric moves to close to the plane of focus. Inacceptable even for the consumer camcorders you refer to, and certainly nothing I'd bet five figures on.

 

[NormanBates]

@CanineCandidsByL: fair enough

about the "designed with professionals in mind" thing: actually, it wasn't, it was just an accident that they happened to build something pro videographers would dig so much; Canon definitely didn't expect such success, it took them totally by surprise (the original 5D2 didn't record 24 fps, which made it awesome but of very limited usefulness in the movie world; they added 24p in a firmware update; I don't think that's something Canon does very often...)

still, even if it was by chance, it was an absolutely awesome accident

but that was february 2009; 30 months later, it's a very old product that can no longer compete with things like the AF100, FS100, A77, A65, NEX-7, and even NEX-5; that's why us videographers, even though we're deeply in love with our canon DSLRs, can't wait for the next generation to arrive

 

[philHolland]

I'll jump in here. I use HDSLRs and shoot content that ends up in major motion pictures.
We have never used the imagery straight out of camera.
There is a great deal of post work that needs to happen to bring it up to a 2k standard. Even then it's not perfect.
Since 2008 we have used it for shots "here and there" and VFX elements.

The 5D Mark II is great camera that shoots decent quality HD video. It's not the best camera out there, but you can't argue the price/size/value ratio. Especially if you are a filmmaker. Indie through pro.

 

[kubelik]

I'll jump in here. I use HDSLRs and shoot content that ends up in major motion pictures.
We have never used the imagery straight out of camera.
There is a great deal of post work that needs to happen to bring it up to a 2k standard. Even then it's not perfect.
Since 2008 we have used it for shots "here and there" and VFX elements.

The 5D Mark II is great camera that shoots decent quality HD video. It's not the best camera out there, but you can't argue the price/size/value ratio. Especially if you are a filmmaker. Indie through pro.

Phil, by the way, I love the video you created for lucent dossier using kraddy for the soundtrack... I have got to get out west for coachella sometime

 

[Cornershot]

Whining about video capability is silly. It's a great feature to have. Every professional photographer I know uses the video function on their cameras. It's an easy and cheap way to add a new revenue stream. And photographers need every bit of help they can get to generate more income. This is a very tough market for pro photographers of all stripe. It's like arguing about Quark and InDesign. Why pay a lot for Quark when you can just buy the Creative Suite for not too much more and get everything? Especially since you're going to buy Photoshop anyways. Canon would be dead without video, just like Quark will be in not too long of time.

 

[philHolland]

Phil, by the way, I love the video you created for lucent dossier using kraddy for the soundtrack... I have got to get out west for coachella sometime

Thank you. It's been a great deal of fun shooting their big performances over the years. Very physically demanding. Especially at the festivals.

It sounds like Coachella 2012 is going to be massive. I think they are doing two weekends.

 

[leGreve]

I know I've said this before, but I really dislike - resent, even - the idea that a significant part of the cost of the 5D3 that I'll buy will have gone into developing video functionality that I will never, EVER, use.

Just sell me a 5D3 without any video functionality, commensurately cheaper, please!

Or, spend the same money enhancing the stills functionality.

If I wanted a camcorder, guess what: I'd go out to a camcorder shop, and buy one.

Sorry to repeat the same old rant.

Quoted for truth... That's the reason I parked the video function of the 5D and went out and got a Sony for those kind of jobs. The zone of 5D filming has reached its peak and I actually don't see the charm of it anymore. It's more of a poor-man-would-be-film-maker's excuse to call himself a videographer or filmmaker.