The Best of Photokina 2016, and a Few Things That Make You Go Hmmmm

Oct 7, 2013
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Maximilian59 said:
I was at photokina now for five days and can say: Canon has the largest area in the mid of there exhibition where nothing is shown. Really nothing but a repeating video on the wall. I estimate it is about 250 squaremeters with a black floor. Of course they have all their gear there and new bodies. But if you go to an exhibition and all you can get from a leading company is nothing to take with home, that is a pitty. Not much really new. A lot of people go there to collect bags and papers. I do expect to get printed information on an exhibition.
Canon also makes printers. But no real specialists there. Maybe one. Hey we are not only taking pictures for our harddrives! Canon makes beamers: There were no beamers from Canon. Seems they don't want us to look at our pictures.
I am a canon shooter for 40 years and no canon basher.

The stand was more like 50x50 square meters = 2500, not just 250 squaremeters. Didn't see an XC15 or C700, which is strange because now Photokina is clearly also a video tradeshow - which Canon supports by showing two future 8K cameras and lenses people could even test themselves. Not much logic behind the whole Canon presentation in Cologne.
 
Oct 7, 2013
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Well... does not having the battery life or heat dissipation sorted yet not mean they *can't* do it? (Within the constraints of a reasonable budget/form factor of DSLRs).

And aren't you kind of agreeing with me - I never said 8K wasn't going to happen (I don't think it's a big deal, and we are surely approaching the limits of visual acuity at normal distances) but queried the idea that 2020 is too late to get into it. Nikon also only put 4K into their flagship DSLRs this year. Three years for another resolution generation?
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Nikon is way worse, they don't seem to plan to be more than #3 in the future - or simply can't do it. Problem with the latest Canon releases is: when the 5D4 and 1DX2 last until 2020, in which product Canon wants to present real fullframe 4K? In a 6D2, so that the 5D4 and 1DX2 owners are the losers, or not before 2020, 6 years after Sony? Especially when a company knows their product should be a standard for the next 4 years, they should be more careful and better over-deliver in terms of specs.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
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douglaurent said:
neuroanatomist said:
douglaurent said:
I am the best evidence why Canon needs to improve and keep up on many levels, as instead of 2x 1DXII and 3x 5D4 I have just bought ONE of each.

No, you're merely an anecdote.

...of thousands you don't see because you don't care.

Canon has sold well over two million ILCs so far this year alone. Even a few thousand is an anecdote. BTW, where's your evidence of 'thousands' of people who share your viewpoint? Yeah, that's what I thought. You see, Canon gathers data from their customers...and anecdotes ≠ data.

With each post, you most effectively demonstrate your irrelevance. Well done. ;)
 

Mikehit

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Jul 28, 2015
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douglaurent said:
Well... does not having the battery life or heat dissipation sorted yet not mean they *can't* do it? (Within the constraints of a reasonable budget/form factor of DSLRs).

And aren't you kind of agreeing with me - I never said 8K wasn't going to happen (I don't think it's a big deal, and we are surely approaching the limits of visual acuity at normal distances) but queried the idea that 2020 is too late to get into it. Nikon also only put 4K into their flagship DSLRs this year. Three years for another resolution generation?


Nikon is way worse, they don't seem to plan to be more than #3 in the future - or simply can't do it. Problem with the latest Canon releases is: when the 5D4 and 1DX2 last until 2020, in which product Canon wants to present real fullframe 4K? In a 6D2, so that the 5D4 and 1DX2 owners are the losers, or not before 2020, 6 years after Sony? Especially when a company knows their product should be a standard for the next 4 years, they should be more careful and better over-deliver in terms of specs.

I recall reading one interview with a Canon rep saying that 4K is not a priority because there are so few people with 4K replay capability. And given that 4K is barely on the consumer market the chance of 8K appearing any time soon to any great extent is remote (and in that I mean even 3-4 years). Are you expecting 4K to really take hold in 2019 and saying that it will be supplanted in 2020?

With HiFi as my other passion, I have seen all the hi-res formats come and go but Joe public has gone straight from CD (perfect sound forever, remember?) by-passed SACD etc and decided mpegs are good enough. There is even strong evidence that all the hi-res digital files are barely better than good ol' CD despite mega-sampling rates. And when it came to hardware (CD, SACD etc) the consumer go pissed off spending thousands on their gear only to find a better format coming out a year later. The same thing is starting to happen with cameras, and the hifi story will repeat itself - people will not buy a generation because they are waiting to see the next development.

I genuinely believe that 4K/8K etc are the new megapixel race - great for techno one-upmanship but in some ways is a solution looking for a problem. OK, as with hifi I know there are some people out there who will make use of them but how many people genuinely have the replay media to tell the difference? And will companies think it is worth spending however much it costs to incorporate this stuff into their gear to please the few people who really recognise its worth?
 

jeffa4444

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Feb 28, 2013
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Maximilian59 said:
I was at photokina now for five days and can say: Canon has the largest area in the mid of there exhibition where nothing is shown. Really nothing but a repeating video on the wall. I estimate it is about 250 squaremeters with a black floor. Of course they have all their gear there and new bodies. But if you go to an exhibition and all you can get from a leading company is nothing to take with home, that is a pitty. Not much really new. A lot of people go there to collect bags and papers. I do expect to get printed information on an exhibition.
Canon also makes printers. But no real specialists there. Maybe one. Hey we are not only taking pictures for our harddrives! Canon makes beamers: There were no beamers from Canon. Seems they don't want us to look at our pictures.
I am a canon shooter for 40 years and no canon basher.
Your bang on the money. Ive been a Canon user since they brought out the FT. The stand at Photokina was frankly forgettable and the space wasted. Aside from the 5D IV and the M5 you had to go to the bar to see any other camera including the flagship 1D X MKII and the new lenses, it was packed and many people I noticed simply turned away because it was not big enough. Both Fuji and Sony by contrast had better thought out stands that displayed and encouraged the use of their cameras & lenses.
Die-hard Canon users could not see the point of the dome (including Canon explorers) and I know two Canon explorers asked to present at Photokina only a few days before the show when they had already made other plans.
Worse still two camera chains in the UK said forward orders for the 5D MKIV were much lower than previous Canon products because of the price and whilst other manufacturers have raised their prices they were no where near as much as Canon.
Based on the cost of the 5D MKIV you can see the 6D MKII coming in at the price of the 5D MKIII which will make a very expensive FF entry point. Forget brochures, price is king and if you price too high people go elsewhere.
 

scyrene

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jeffa4444 said:
Worse still two camera chains in the UK said forward orders for the 5D MKIV were much lower than previous Canon products because of the price and whilst other manufacturers have raised their prices they were no where near as much as Canon.
Based on the cost of the 5D MKIV you can see the 6D MKII coming in at the price of the 5D MKIII which will make a very expensive FF entry point. Forget brochures, price is king and if you price too high people go elsewhere.

I agree price is one of the most important factors deciding what/whether people will buy. How much is down to the recent currency devaluing though? Everything is going to be more expensive in the UK for the foreseeable future.
 

jeffa4444

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neuroanatomist said:
Canon Rumors said:
I think the sub $10,000 medium format segment is potentially bigger than some people thing and that they’re going to sell a lot of cameras.

The Leica S has always been my favorite “medium format” body

I'd hope it would be bigger. Given that Leica previously extimated the entire global medium format market at ~6,000 units per year, it's a pretty small pie to be sliced up.
The medium format market is still small compared to DSLRs which at Photokina were estimated to have 49% of the market. However medium format is indeed growing and the new offerings from Fuji, Phase One & Hasselblad will only fuel that growth based on recent GfK data. Leica based their numbers on the market at that time and did not forsee the re-emergence of interest in medium format which owes its new found interest mainly to the Sony sourced sensors. Leica S system whilst beautifully made has not been adopted that well by pros who still stick to Hasselblad & Phase One, our systems have pretty low utilisation whilst we continue to invest in Hasselblad & Phase One.
 

JoFT

I do love photography
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jebrady03 said:
Canon Rumors said:
Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG Art
It’s finally here! It seems the entire photography community has been waiting for the 85mm f/1.4 Art and the excitement for the announcement has been over the top.
Sigma is promising that this lens will equal the Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 in optical performance, and give you the benefit of autofocus for a fraction of the cost. If Sigma gets anywhere near this claim, they’re going to have themselves a massive success.
We’re hoping for a new Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L III some time in 2017, because it may be hard to resist this Sigma offering.
If you have to decide today: go for the OTUS. The Sigma is not a competitor against it. It is against the Milvus, yes, but not the OTUS. This is a different league of a lens.
Sigma was pretty bitchy with its new 85mm. I could use it only on their 6D: But for me focusing was the same mixed feeling like the old 85mm f1.4 of Sigam - and the result was buying the Milvus.

The question is, will the AF be barely better than the Zeiss Otus? I had the 50 Art tuned to my 5D Mark III and since the 5D Mark IV arrived, I haven't touched the lens because I don't want to go through the long, drawn out process of tuning the damn thing again. I too am hoping for an 85L III in the very near future. Even an 85mm f/1.4L would be fine with me. And I don't need 85/1.8 or 135/2 focusing speed, but as long as the AF speed isn't DEAD LAST in their current lineup (65 macro withstanding), I'll happily purchase it immediately.

If they can master the AF and if the busy-bokeh-bug doesn't hit the Sigma and it renders nicely (as well as the 85L II or Otus), then I won't even bother with waiting for Canon.
 

JoFT

I do love photography
Nov 9, 2014
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Craig: you started the thread: Yes it was a pity not to meet you at Photokina.


I did a fairly good summary here: http://bit.ly/2cRFsF3


In terms of Canon: the M5 was just great. This is a very good answer and for me this camera seems to be much better than the Sony a6xxx ones. But still not on the level of the panasonics. But it is a different ecosystem. Let´s hope for many more and unique lenses to support this format!
 
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