The Best of Photokina 2016, and a Few Things That Make You Go Hmmmm

jeffa4444

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 28, 2013
1,531
189
67
After walking the halls for three days what was the best of Photokina? Well if people numbers are anything to go by the Fuji medium format system stole the show, in fact Fuji stand was well laid out and buzzing.
Sigma stand was also busy stars being the cinematography lenses and the 85mm f1.4, Olympus had a holographic display of the yet to be shown OM-D E-M1 MKII and a new Pen PL-8. Nikon had the already released D5 & D500 plus the D3400 and the Keymission action cams (are Nikon losing the plot?) but the setting was dull and un-imaginative. Panasonic laboured on 4K (and 8K) and had the pre-requisite models on a swing over lit.
Canon big thing was the 5D MKIV and the M5, the M5 is a much better offering than the previous M series and feels solid in the hands and had tons of interest. the 5D MKIV is well reported on these pages and I had one with me (along with a G7 X). I'm surprised no one has brought up the EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM MKII, I shot a few frames with the lens at the Expert Bar (over-crowded and poorly laid out) which housed lens, the C700, 1D X MKII and the other Canon cameras, the EF 24-105 f4L IS USM MKII will sell, sell, sell.
Canon had half a hall with a dome showing stills & video and a lot of wasted space why they crammed everything into the Expert Bar is beyond me. Printer had minimal floor space, they had the 8K camera and the 120MP camera both showcasing whats to come.
Overall however this was not Canon at their best and I left disappointed they under-played so much of what they can offer.
Sony new a99 MKII was another camera that was the talk of the show and the stand (which was massive) was very busy.
The other highlights were the drones (everywhere), action cams (GoPro stand was constantly blitzed with Hero 5 mania).
Lastly for us Canon users Phottix have added to their Laso offering the Indra 500LC studio / location flash which is compatible with Canon radio flash system giving 500W/s TTL power, up to 1/8000s sync speed, 15 channels, 5 groups, at 100m range. The Laso is backwards compatible to older non-radio Canon flashes using a Laso receiver, I have this system and it works a treat.
 

candyman

EOS 5D Mark IV
Sep 27, 2011
2,214
59
www.flickr.com
jeffa4444 said:
...........I'm surprised no one has brought up the EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM MKII, I shot a few frames with the lens at the Expert Bar (over-crowded and poorly laid out) which housed lens, the C700, 1D X MKII and the other Canon cameras, the EF 24-105 f4L IS USM MKII will sell, sell, sell..............
Tell us more....and why will it sell, sell, sell....
 

StudentOfLight

I'm on a life-long journey of self-discovery
Nov 2, 2013
1,444
5
39
Cape Town
Lets not forget that photography is first and foremost about light. Phottix just won Photokina for me with this:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=18979
 

jeffa4444

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 28, 2013
1,531
189
67
candyman said:
jeffa4444 said:
...........I'm surprised no one has brought up the EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM MKII, I shot a few frames with the lens at the Expert Bar (over-crowded and poorly laid out) which housed lens, the C700, 1D X MKII and the other Canon cameras, the EF 24-105 f4L IS USM MKII will sell, sell, sell..............
Tell us more....and why will it sell, sell, sell....
The original lens was never poorly made but the new one is just like the EF 16-35mm f4L IS USM it feels much better mechanically and the bumped 4 stops stabilisation is most welcome. From what Ive seen so far the corner sharpness is much improved and the lateral CAs vastly improved I'm definitely on the waiting list for one. Im not a huge fan of the EF 24-70mm f4L IS USM which is weak at 50mm and the new EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM MKII will become my walk-around lens like its predecessor was until I bought the EF 24-70mm f4L IS USM with my 5DS. Canon knew the older lens needed improvement and from the shots I have albeit within the confines of Photokina they have responded.
 

candyman

EOS 5D Mark IV
Sep 27, 2011
2,214
59
www.flickr.com
jeffa4444 said:
candyman said:
jeffa4444 said:
...........I'm surprised no one has brought up the EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM MKII, I shot a few frames with the lens at the Expert Bar (over-crowded and poorly laid out) which housed lens, the C700, 1D X MKII and the other Canon cameras, the EF 24-105 f4L IS USM MKII will sell, sell, sell..............
Tell us more....and why will it sell, sell, sell....
The original lens was never poorly made but the new one is just like the EF 16-35mm f4L IS USM it feels much better mechanically and the bumped 4 stops stabilisation is most welcome. From what Ive seen so far the corner sharpness is much improved and the lateral CAs vastly improved I'm definitely on the waiting list for one. Im not a huge fan of the EF 24-70mm f4L IS USM which is weak at 50mm and the new EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM MKII will become my walk-around lens like its predecessor was until I bought the EF 24-70mm f4L IS USM with my 5DS. Canon knew the older lens needed improvement and from the shots I have albeit within the confines of Photokina they have responded.
Thanks, that's good to hear. I have ordered the 24-105 II on August 26th and I look forward to pick it up and use it in the field myself. It will be my walk-around lens as well.
 
Feb 18, 2015
7
0
I will never use an 18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM, no matter how great it is.

I agree, I saw this lens and was like...awww, what a missed opportunity. An f/2.8 is a must for my needs.

The Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L III made me drool. I'll be searching out the reviews and shots in the field for this glass.

-T
 
Oct 7, 2013
350
0
By the way, the only fact that you presented was that Canon and Nikon are not handing out printed brochures at Photokina. Everything beyond that is your own interpretation of that one fact. Now, if you went up to the Canon booth and asked for a brochure, and they told you, "Bugger off you idiot, stop consuming oxygen that people we value actually need," then that would be another fact, and one that might actually support your interpretation.
[/quote]

Aside from the many other facts I delivered - like Canon's big presentation of printers and printed books, which took more space than the camera hands on areas and which is a joke when they deny the future of printing - I can give you more: several types of brochures they used to do don't even seem to exist anymore as downloads, like overall camera and lens lineups. The only thing you have is their websites which will change. So in 5 years it will be impossible to read what the product lineup of today was in detail.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
25,820
4,268
douglaurent said:
...Canon's big presentation of printers and printed books, which took more space than the camera hands on areas and which is a joke when they deny the future of printing

So you believe that choosing not to distribute paper brochures suggests that Canon is 'denying the future of printing'? Sounds like you need to get your facts straight, given that Canon's Office division is >50% larger than their Imaging division, and Canon has highlighted part of their future corporate starategy as, "Shifting from a document printing domain to a broader business that includes commercial printing." But hey, you go right on interepreting your few facts through the lenses of your crap-colored glasses.


douglaurent said:
I can give you more: several types of brochures they used to do don't even seem to exist anymore as downloads, like overall camera and lens lineups. The only thing you have is their websites which will change. So in 5 years it will be impossible to read what the product lineup of today was in detail.

While that sort of historical documentation may be of mild interest in the acedemic sense, it has little practical utility. Particularly since that sort of information is not globally relevant (e.g. certain lenses are discontinued by some geographic units before others). Besides, it's a big internet, and even though websites change, there's this other thing on the internet called the Wayback Machine. So if you'd like to see the EF Lens Lineup from June, 1997 with 'NEW' lenses like the 300/4L IS highlighted, you can.
 

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Oct 7, 2013
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Funny how simple cutting of costs through the stop of printing brochures is celebrated as a genius future move by Canon, while the same company does still use 1980 Casio top displays in their flagship cameras.

We see a combination of arrogant company and logic consumers opinions that go under the louder crazy Trump-style consumer voices, which leads to the current state of slow innovation, increase in prices and decrease in service.

If Canon is not interested in consumers of a trade show, then they should stay at home like Apple or Samsung. If Canon thinks their flagship cameras are not wanted as video cameras, then they should be consequent and remove the video function completely, instead of doing everything just 50%. This is not my personal opinion, I rent out stuff and all 50+ people I know think the same.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
25,820
4,268
Wow, 50 people. Who are your customers, but not necessarily Canon's. I wonder how many actual customers Canon solicits for opinions? I'm guessing more than 50. ::)

BTW, your 'genius future move' comment, facetious though it is, is still just your personal opinion of that one fact. Maybe it was a cost-saving measure. Maybe it was environmental consciousness. Maybe their commercial printer failed to have the order ready in time, perhaps because that commercial printer's equipment failed. Maybe that equipment was even made by Canon. But you go right ahead and ascribe whatever motivation you want, Jon Snow. ::)
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,938
Canada
douglaurent said:
Funny how simple cutting of costs through the stop of printing brochures is celebrated as a genius future move by Canon

I work in the electronics industry... the amount of paper used in brochures, handouts, and catalogs has plummeted over the last 10 years. This is neither new or innovative, it is business as usual.
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,348
600
I think Fuji have made a great move with medium format.
They are doing a great job at APS-C but are too late for full frame.
Medium Formatt will be the future as consumers want ever greater quality.
The more medium format sensors made the cheaper they will become.
They need to get new lens for the system or at least promise them.
The cost of the camera is high but it will reduce over time to sit a few grand above flagship Canon / Nikin.
There are a lot of people in the world who can afford it.
Size won't be much larger than a Canon / Nikon full frame.
 
Oct 7, 2013
350
0
Don Haines said:
douglaurent said:
Funny how simple cutting of costs through the stop of printing brochures is celebrated as a genius future move by Canon

I work in the electronics industry... the amount of paper used in brochures, handouts, and catalogs has plummeted over the last 10 years. This is neither new or innovative, it is business as usual.

So it is business as usual to stop making system overviews even as pdf, and stop making product brochures in more than english language even as pdf? This means 95% of the photo industry are still behind because they hand out printed brochures?

Sony gave out a brilliant 92-page system catalogue at Photokina, with lots of details you will never find if you go on a website. This is professional and complete service and serves all customers. Give some catalogue like this by Canon to any owner or potential buyer of a 5D4, and most will love and keep it, as it's a completely different feeling and insight as a website - and it will generate more sales of accessoires. Each printed copy will be worth it.
 

d

EOS RP
Mar 8, 2015
417
0
douglaurent said:
Sony gave out a brilliant 92-page system catalogue at Photokina, with lots of details you will never find if you go on a website. This is professional and complete service and serves all customers. Give some catalogue like this by Canon to any owner or potential buyer of a 5D4, and most will love and keep it, as it's a completely different feeling and insight as a website - and it will generate more sales of accessoires. Each printed copy will be worth it.

:eek:

Think you might be taking your printed materials a little too seriously there, Doug.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,938
Canada
douglaurent said:
Don Haines said:
douglaurent said:
Funny how simple cutting of costs through the stop of printing brochures is celebrated as a genius future move by Canon

I work in the electronics industry... the amount of paper used in brochures, handouts, and catalogs has plummeted over the last 10 years. This is neither new or innovative, it is business as usual.

So it is business as usual to stop making system overviews even as pdf, and stop making product brochures in more than english language even as pdf? This means 95% of the photo industry are still behind because they hand out printed brochures?

Sony gave out a brilliant 92-page system catalogue at Photokina, with lots of details you will never find if you go on a website. This is professional and complete service and serves all customers. Give some catalogue like this by Canon to any owner or potential buyer of a 5D4, and most will love and keep it, as it's a completely different feeling and insight as a website - and it will generate more sales of accessoires. Each printed copy will be worth it.
About 20 years ago, electronics companies started sending out CDs and DVDs of their product lines and catalogs.... about 10 years ago they stopped sending the CDs and DVDs because there was more and better information available through the websites.... I used to have a library of HUNDREDS of parts catalogs, now I have none, yet have access to more information and faster.

Perhaps Sony did go overboard and create a promotional book for their system at Photokina, but that is not the industry trend. If the marketing people at Canon and Nikon were able to prove that the expense of designing, printing, and distributing equivalent materials would generate enough additional sales to more than offset the costs, then it is a sure bet that they would be printing them.

Most people (and particularly the younger ones) go online for their information.......
 

Aglet

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 26, 2012
1,729
16
AB
Don Haines said:
douglaurent said:
Don Haines said:
douglaurent said:
Funny how simple cutting of costs through the stop of printing brochures is celebrated as a genius future move by Canon

I work in the electronics industry... the amount of paper used in brochures, handouts, and catalogs has plummeted over the last 10 years. This is neither new or innovative, it is business as usual.

So it is business as usual to stop making system overviews even as pdf, and stop making product brochures in more than english language even as pdf? This means 95% of the photo industry are still behind because they hand out printed brochures?

Sony gave out a brilliant 92-page system catalogue at Photokina, with lots of details you will never find if you go on a website. This is professional and complete service and serves all customers. Give some catalogue like this by Canon to any owner or potential buyer of a 5D4, and most will love and keep it, as it's a completely different feeling and insight as a website - and it will generate more sales of accessoires. Each printed copy will be worth it.
About 20 years ago, electronics companies started sending out CDs and DVDs of their product lines and catalogs.... about 10 years ago they stopped sending the CDs and DVDs because there was more and better information available through the websites.... I used to have a library of HUNDREDS of parts catalogs, now I have none, yet have access to more information and faster.

Perhaps Sony did go overboard and create a promotional book for their system at Photokina, but that is not the industry trend. If the marketing people at Canon and Nikon were able to prove that the expense of designing, printing, and distributing equivalent materials would generate enough additional sales to more than offset the costs, then it is a sure bet that they would be printing them.

Most people (and particularly the younger ones) go online for their information.......

Where you can't find data for most electronic devices made before 1990 or even later.
i still have to retain a large library of old databooks around to assist in servicing machines that are a few decades old. Remember when everything was thru-hole?.. :)
 

Aglet

EOS 5D Mark IV
Feb 26, 2012
1,729
16
AB
d said:
douglaurent said:
Sony gave out a brilliant 92-page system catalogue at Photokina, with lots of details you will never find if you go on a website. This is professional and complete service and serves all customers. Give some catalogue like this by Canon to any owner or potential buyer of a 5D4, and most will love and keep it, as it's a completely different feeling and insight as a website - and it will generate more sales of accessoires. Each printed copy will be worth it.

:eek:

Think you might be taking your printed materials a little too seriously there, Doug.

I think Doug's got a reasonable point ..
and he's not arguing it like he just dined on Imodium and crack.

printed brochures and catalogs have a marketing value with a different (& lasting?) impact.
And they're more acceptable to read while you're in the bathroom. ;D

not everyone wants to browse info on a friggin smartphone but many co's are adjusting their information presentations to little else.
is Canon now marketing just to those kids?
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,938
Canada
Aglet said:
d said:
douglaurent said:
Sony gave out a brilliant 92-page system catalogue at Photokina, with lots of details you will never find if you go on a website. This is professional and complete service and serves all customers. Give some catalogue like this by Canon to any owner or potential buyer of a 5D4, and most will love and keep it, as it's a completely different feeling and insight as a website - and it will generate more sales of accessoires. Each printed copy will be worth it.

:eek:

Think you might be taking your printed materials a little too seriously there, Doug.

I think Doug's got a reasonable point ..
and he's not arguing it like he just dined on Imodium and crack.

printed brochures and catalogs have a marketing value with a different (& lasting?) impact.
And they're more acceptable to read while you're in the bathroom. ;D

not everyone wants to browse info on a friggin smartphone but many co's are adjusting their information presentations to little else.
is Canon now marketing just to those kids?
Personally, I think the balance is somewhere in the middle. I think we have gone too far..... I like a printed manual for my camera!
 

Old Sarge

EOS RP
CR Pro
Nov 6, 2012
235
1
Don Haines said:
Aglet said:
d said:
douglaurent said:
Sony gave out a brilliant 92-page system catalogue at Photokina, with lots of details you will never find if you go on a website. This is professional and complete service and serves all customers. Give some catalogue like this by Canon to any owner or potential buyer of a 5D4, and most will love and keep it, as it's a completely different feeling and insight as a website - and it will generate more sales of accessoires. Each printed copy will be worth it.

:eek:

Think you might be taking your printed materials a little too seriously there, Doug.

I think Doug's got a reasonable point ..
and he's not arguing it like he just dined on Imodium and crack.

printed brochures and catalogs have a marketing value with a different (& lasting?) impact.
And they're more acceptable to read while you're in the bathroom. ;D

not everyone wants to browse info on a friggin smartphone but many co's are adjusting their information presentations to little else.
is Canon now marketing just to those kids?
Personally, I think the balance is somewhere in the middle. I think we have gone too far..... I like a printed manual for my camera!
Amen and Amen! But being a belt and suspenders man, I like having a pdf also.
 
Oct 7, 2013
350
0
I have spent more than 10.000 bucks for the 5D4 and 1DX2 - not to speak of 100+x other Canon products I have bought - and think it would have been nice if they have invested 2 dollars to print brochures. But again missing prints are just a small piece of the Canon problem puzzle.

At each past Photokina you could have seen that Sony tried hard to keep up with Canon and Nikon, by simply releasing the best they can and adding features the others didn't have. Now for the first time this strategy had the result Sony is at Photokina and on par or better on most levels, and the only left Canon advantages are 4K 60fps in a DSLR and better video autofocus, plus a few lenses. The overall current broad impression is:

- Sony can achieve nearly everything on the highest possible standards and delivers what they have.
- Canon can achieve nearly everything on the highest possible standards and delivers only parts of that yet for strategic reasons.
- Nikon can only achieve some things on the highest possible standards, does not know how to make things better yet, and still acts as if Canon is their only competitor.