Posting about sensors and DR!

[Loswr]

2000 Eure per month are sufficient, 3000 Euro per month give you some headroom, 10000 Euro per month give you much more headroom to do things you like - would you say "no"?

Put like that, no. But...what if to get that 10000 € per month, you had to move to and always stay within the city limits of Paris – not the one in France...the one in Texas. Or give up one of your kids.

So, would you still choose that extra headroom if it came with significant strings attached? Maybe you would prefer to get the additional headroom without any changes to your life situation...in that case, you could post on an Internet forum how much you'd like that extra 7000-8000 €, and hope your boss reads your posts and gives you that big raise.

I haven't spoken about additional restrictions ...

In that case, I agree...as I already stated. We've established that having more DR is desirable. Now what?

Even MORE DR of course

Touché. Yes, of course...bring on the near-noiseless sensors and 18-bit ADCs.

But, one step at a time. More DR is desirable. How exactly do we go about getting it, particularly with no additional restrictions?

 

[Dylan777]

The title says it all.... after thread after thread becomes arguments that never end, what do you wish people would do?

Buy whatever gear that fit their needs and move on. I heard enough about people keep telling they going to switch to Nikon and Sony for the better, still, none have done so.

Talk is cheap, be a man and do it.

 

[mb66energy]

2000 Eure per month are sufficient, 3000 Euro per month give you some headroom, 10000 Euro per month give you much more headroom to do things you like - would you say "no"?

Put like that, no. But...what if to get that 10000 € per month, you had to move to and always stay within the city limits of Paris – not the one in France...the one in Texas. Or give up one of your kids.

So, would you still choose that extra headroom if it came with significant strings attached? Maybe you would prefer to get the additional headroom without any changes to your life situation...in that case, you could post on an Internet forum how much you'd like that extra 7000-8000 €, and hope your boss reads your posts and gives you that big raise.

I haven't spoken about additional restrictions ...

In that case, I agree...as I already stated. We've established that having more DR is desirable. Now what?

Even MORE DR of course

Touché. Yes, of course...bring on the near-noiseless sensors and 18-bit ADCs.

But, one step at a time. More DR is desirable. How exactly do we go about getting it, particularly with no additional restrictions?

Building sensors in the 3rd dimension to enhance full well capacity by a factor of 10 -> its roughly 3 times more DR at low ISOs if everything is left constant (except price due to higher production cost). I think this will happen within the next decade.

 

[weixing]

Buy whatever gear that fit their needs and move on. I heard enough about people keep telling they going to switch to Nikon and Sony for the better, still, none have done so.

Talk is cheap, be a man and do it.

Yup, talk is cheap:

I don't ever just buy before I give it a real good try. But I'm not just a bag full of words, either. I intend to get a solid handle on the state of Sony raw files (and the full range of the consequences of their lossy compression) before I bite the bullet, but even if I can't work the data like I can with a Nikon RAW, it should still be worlds better than Canon data.

Hi,
Renting also not cheap...

Anyway, I try out the A7R and A7S with metalbones, A7R focusing is really slow in low light and I don't like the heavy shutter... the A7s had better shutter feel and AF in low light is faster, but still not very consistent.

Enjoy the camera... ;D

Have a nice day.

 

[weixing]

Buy whatever gear that fit their needs and move on. I heard enough about people keep telling they going to switch to Nikon and Sony for the better, still, none have done so.

Talk is cheap, be a man and do it.

Yup, talk is cheap:

...

I don't ever just buy before I give it a real good try. But I'm not just a bag full of words, either. I intend to get a solid handle on the state of Sony raw files (and the full range of the consequences of their lossy compression) before I bite the bullet, but even if I can't work the data like I can with a Nikon RAW, it should still be worlds better than Canon data.

Hi,
Renting also not cheap...

Anyway, I try out the A7R and A7S with metalbones, A7R focusing is really slow in low light and I don't like the heavy shutter... the A7s had better shutter feel and AF in low light is faster, but still not very consistent.

Enjoy the camera... ;D

Have a nice day.

Yeah, I've heard about the shutter shock problem. Part of the reason I'm renting first. It's not all that bad, considering its some $2400 to buy the camera lone, let alone the adapter.

I'll try the A7s at some point, or whatever new cameras Sony releases next year. I particularly want to get a handle on the raw IQ, and the impact of compression. I want my RAW to be RAW...and I don't like the use of lossy compression for "raw" data. I'm hoping it isn't a huge deal, but I guess we'll see.

Hi,
Anyway, I don't think I'll buy any expensive Sony product... the issue with Sony is their technical support... Not sure about your country Sony support, but my country Sony technical support is really bad... out of warranty (2 year old and out of warranty by 1 year) notebook screen crack, no parts... power adapter damage, no replacement available... Sony really need to improve their technical support...

Have a nice day.

 

[AmselAdans]

Lack of irony seems often to be accompanied by a lack of humor.

Seeing the pictures of the museum made me laugh out loud. When being asked for the reason of my laughing by somebody not familiar with photography, I didn't even know how to start to explain this whole story and why this was a hilarious post. "Well it's about ...em... so when you photograph, you ...em... so some people think that ... uuuuh..... I saw a cat falling down a table."

 

[Don Haines]

...
DR is important, but to me – and based on the sales figures, to most people – it's neither the only nor the single most important criterion by which a camera system is judged.
...

The fact is that we don't know what is the single most important criteria by which customers choose a camera.

It could be that people do buy based on whether the name is "Canon" or "Nikon" and that alone - nothing more.

But one thing I can guarantee you, when someone walks into a store to buy a camera, the numbers that are present on the ticket are the price and megapixels - not DR.

So when DR is on the price ticket and regularly feature as a headline specification that is obvious to see, easy to sort against in online shops, etc, then it would be reasonable to expect that some customers might start basing purchasing decisions on DR. Until that point in time the only people that will purchase based on DR are the serious amateurs and professionals (which are not a majority of camera buyers.)

I read somewhere, sorry but I can't remember where the article was, an article about consumer buying habits with DSLRs. The article said that for low end buyers (the vast majority) the most important factor was price, with the number of megapixels second. For high end buyers the major factor was superior features to the current camera and the secondary consideration was brand loyalty, mostly influenced by their collection of lenses and accessories. The reason superior features ranked number one was because if a new camera was not significantly better than their existing camera, there was no reason to purchase... regardless of the brand or legacy equipment. Makes sense to me.... who would spend good money to downgrade?

 

[Don Haines]

Lack of irony seems often to be accompanied by a lack of humor.

Seeing the pictures of the museum made me laugh out loud. When being asked for the reason of my laughing by somebody not familiar with photography, I didn't even know how to start to explain this whole story and why this was a hilarious post. "Well it's about ...em... so when you photograph, you ...em... so some people think that ... uuuuh..... I saw a cat falling down a table."

I think that one of the things we should do when posting is to put a "WARNING! Sarcasm" or a "Warning! Humour" tag on some of our posts. While it is obvious to the poster, many of the readers will not get it. For example, how many people got the fact that the Canon picture and the Exmor picture in Neuro's museum post were the same picture? The "I raised the shadows by 10 stops" comment should have been a clue, but honestly, how many of us clued in?

 

[fragilesi]

Buy whatever gear that fit their needs and move on. I heard enough about people keep telling they going to switch to Nikon and Sony for the better, still, none have done so.

Talk is cheap, be a man and do it.

Yup, talk is cheap:



I don't ever just buy before I give it a real good try. But I'm not just a bag full of words, either. I intend to get a solid handle on the state of Sony raw files (and the full range of the consequences of their lossy compression) before I bite the bullet, but even if I can't work the data like I can with a Nikon RAW, it should still be worlds better than Canon data.

So the Canon lenses are better?

 

[Ivan Muller]

I don't care. I am not forced to read each and every post here. I have free will and can choose to read, respond or ignore.

 

[Sporgon]

Buy whatever gear that fit their needs and move on. I heard enough about people keep telling they going to switch to Nikon and Sony for the better, still, none have done so.

Talk is cheap, be a man and do it.

Yup, talk is cheap:

...

I don't ever just buy before I give it a real good try. But I'm not just a bag full of words, either. I intend to get a solid handle on the state of Sony raw files (and the full range of the consequences of their lossy compression) before I bite the bullet, but even if I can't work the data like I can with a Nikon RAW, it should still be worlds better than Canon data.

Hi,
Renting also not cheap...

Anyway, I try out the A7R and A7S with metalbones, A7R focusing is really slow in low light and I don't like the heavy shutter... the A7s had better shutter feel and AF in low light is faster, but still not very consistent.

Enjoy the camera... ;D

Have a nice day.

Yeah, I've heard about the shutter shock problem. Part of the reason I'm renting first. It's not all that bad, considering its some $2400 to buy the camera lone, let alone the adapter.

I'll try the A7s at some point, or whatever new cameras Sony releases next year. I particularly want to get a handle on the raw IQ, and the impact of compression. I want my RAW to be RAW...and I don't like the use of lossy compression for "raw" data. I'm hoping it isn't a huge deal, but I guess we'll see.

Looking forward to seeing what you are going to post from the Sony. ( No sarcasm). Remember to include some shots with single exposures and challenging lighting akin to those that you have linked to in the past from 500px. (Well OK, maybe a little bit if sarcasm there).

 

[AmselAdans]

Lack of irony seems often to be accompanied by a lack of humor.

Seeing the pictures of the museum made me laugh out loud. When being asked for the reason of my laughing by somebody not familiar with photography, I didn't even know how to start to explain this whole story and why this was a hilarious post. "Well it's about ...em... so when you photograph, you ...em... so some people think that ... uuuuh..... I saw a cat falling down a table."

I think that one of the things we should do when posting is to put a "WARNING! Sarcasm" or a "Warning! Humour" tag on some of our posts.

Indeed I thought about adding such a remark under some of my posts. However, I consider the outcome without such a hint much more entertaining.

 

[Dylan777]

Buy whatever gear that fit their needs and move on. I heard enough about people keep telling they going to switch to Nikon and Sony for the better, still, none have done so.

Talk is cheap, be a man and do it.

Yup, talk is cheap:

I don't ever just buy before I give it a real good try. But I'm not just a bag full of words, either. I intend to get a solid handle on the state of Sony raw files (and the full range of the consequences of their lossy compression) before I bite the bullet, but even if I can't work the data like I can with a Nikon RAW, it should still be worlds better than Canon data.

One advice for you, stay away from that adapter. It will take all the fun always from mirrorless. Stay with their native lenses.

 

[Dylan777]

Buy whatever gear that fit their needs and move on. I heard enough about people keep telling they going to switch to Nikon and Sony for the better, still, none have done so.

Talk is cheap, be a man and do it.

Yup, talk is cheap:

...

I don't ever just buy before I give it a real good try. But I'm not just a bag full of words, either. I intend to get a solid handle on the state of Sony raw files (and the full range of the consequences of their lossy compression) before I bite the bullet, but even if I can't work the data like I can with a Nikon RAW, it should still be worlds better than Canon data.

Hi,
Renting also not cheap...

Anyway, I try out the A7R and A7S with metalbones, A7R focusing is really slow in low light and I don't like the heavy shutter... the A7s had better shutter feel and AF in low light is faster, but still not very consistent.

Enjoy the camera... ;D

Have a nice day.

Yeah, I've heard about the shutter shock problem. Part of the reason I'm renting first. It's not all that bad, considering its some $2400 to buy the camera lone, let alone the adapter.

I'll try the A7s at some point, or whatever new cameras Sony releases next year. I particularly want to get a handle on the raw IQ, and the impact of compression. I want my RAW to be RAW...and I don't like the use of lossy compression for "raw" data. I'm hoping it isn't a huge deal, but I guess we'll see.

If you intend to shoot high ISO, then yet a7s. AF is slightly faster in darkroom(more like for me, high ISO shooter).

You seem to like high MP, stay with a7r. BTW, get 2-3 batteries.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

I think that one of the things we should do when posting is to put a "WARNING! Sarcasm"

A good idea.

On the Internets Tubes, since communication is solely by text with no of the other human communication cues, it is a fine line between being sarcastic and being stupid.

Smart money plays the odds. ;D

 

[pierlux]

Lack of irony seems often to be accompanied by a lack of humor.

Seeing the pictures of the museum made me laugh out loud. When being asked for the reason of my laughing by somebody not familiar with photography, I didn't even know how to start to explain this whole story and why this was a hilarious post. "Well it's about ...em... so when you photograph, you ...em... so some people think that ... uuuuh..... I saw a cat falling down a table."

I think that one of the things we should do when posting is to put a "WARNING! Sarcasm" or a "Warning! Humour" tag on some of our posts. While it is obvious to the poster, many of the readers will not get it.

I'd even add a "message icon" indicating a "fun" or "sarcasm" thread. It happened to me I intended to start a fun thread a while ago and I did, but I put a question mark icon on it. I assumed it was clear enough by the content, but it wasn't. Well, maybe I should have posted this under "Site information" as a suggestion instead of here...

p.s. Surapon's back!!!

 

[privatebydesign]

Lack of irony seems often to be accompanied by a lack of humor.

Seeing the pictures of the museum made me laugh out loud. When being asked for the reason of my laughing by somebody not familiar with photography, I didn't even know how to start to explain this whole story and why this was a hilarious post. "Well it's about ...em... so when you photograph, you ...em... so some people think that ... uuuuh..... I saw a cat falling down a table."

I think that one of the things we should do when posting is to put a "WARNING! Sarcasm" or a "Warning! Humour" tag on some of our posts. While it is obvious to the poster, many of the readers will not get it.

I'd even add a "message icon" indicating a "fun" or "sarcasm" thread. It happened to me I intended to start a fun thread a while ago and I did, but I put a question mark icon on it. I assumed it was clear enough by the content, but it wasn't. Well, maybe I should have posted this under "Site information" as a suggestion instead of here...

p.s. Surapon's back!!!

Woohoo, that is the best comment ever in a DR thread, sorry I know it is not a DR thread it is a thread about DR threads, who cares? Surapon is back

 

[LovePhotography]

Let's just be civil, okay?
I do photography for fun.
If I want to argue, I'll go to work or tell my teenagers to clean their rooms.
Right?

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Let's just be civil, okay?
I do photography for fun.
If I want to argue, I'll go to work or tell my teenagers to clean their rooms.
Right?

Perhaps they should change the name of this site to CanonAuguments.com? ;D

Truth in advertising and all. 8)

 

[J.R.]

Let's just be civil, okay?

You expect much.

These DR arguments end up with both sides pissing in the wind.