Preorder: Canon EOS R5, Canon EOS R6 and new lenses

Jul 12, 2020
5
2
It's interesting that my old Canon 50d had 15 Mpx, a big wheel at the back, a joystick and an LCD screen at the top. Ok, it had only 9 AF points and not the best ISO. But at the first glimpse, there aint much of improvement since 2008 ;)
Canon 50d.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michael Clark

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
No one, at least not me arguing what your needs. I have no interest and it’s irrelevant to me.

my discussion has always been price parity. My last word.
What makes you think there should be price parity between the same product produced in one country and sold in two other countries halfway around the globe from one another with differing tax structures (import duties/income/sales), consumer protections, and economic conditions?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
Sure. That’s a quote from 1 store. I guess you are more familiar than those who are living Australia.
Nope. That's why I deferred to the expertise of someone who lives in Australia who doesn't seem to think a corporation in Japan owes them a camera for the price they're charging others in a different country with differing import duties, tax structures, populations/sales numbers, and other various economic considerations.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
It’s all about options and possibilities. What would you say if R5 was priced at US$7,000.00 in US? That’s how we feel at times. Therefor a grey market product becoming more of a consideration for many in Australia.
A grey market product typically comes with a 12 month third party warranty. Typically an authorised Australian Canon repairer But engaged via a third party paid gig. Dollar notes are not hanging of trees in the land down under. We earn as much as some US folks in local currency. A$7,000.00 is quite a price to pay for many.
Not many in the U.S. can afford $7,000 (or $3,899) for a camera, either. But there are 360 million people living in the U.S. There are 25 million people living in Australia. Add another 5 million if New Zealand is also served by Canon AUS..

Size of market makes a difference.

The overhead cost for keeping Canon AUS in business must be borne by 1/14 as many potential buyers compared to the overhead cost of running Canon USA. Taxes are different. The level of government services are different. Consumer protections are different. The cost of shipping in a country as large as Australia but with low population density and large areas with very little human habitation will be higher. Other economic considerations we don't even know about may also come into play.

You can't expect a grape to taste like a plum. They look similar. But they're two entirely different fruits (which may have common genetic ancestors) with two very different internal structures due to their significant difference in size.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
I really wouldn’t sweat it too much as comparing prices to the USA is never a good idea as they always get by far the best deals. And Oz like the UK have lots of red tape and tax that just adds to the cost of ever single thing we purchase.

I you want to hear my own horrific story of price parity, a few years ago when I wanted to upgarde my Phase One Back from a P65 to IQ260 (same CCD but different platform) I was quoted in the UK £14,000 + VAT however a dealer in the USA quoted me (after conversion) £8500.

£5500! :sick:difference for the exact same product.

Much bigger market to keep happy so they either get all the best deals to keep the gears turning or the dealers in the rest of the world are much greedier.
Or there's much less hidden cost of government greed included as well?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
Wait a second. 1Dx III at ISO 12800 is at the same EV level as 5D4 at ISO6400? That’s a full stop of high ISO latitude advantage at 6400. Okaaay. I would like to see R5 curve. Overheating or not :))
Compared to the 30MP 5D Mark IV it does. Compared to the more similar 20MP 1D X Mark II it does not. R5 is 45MP, and will probably have higher DR at ISO 100 with the curve gradually hitting the same levels as the 5D Mark IV as ISO increases.

But no one knows for sure until several independent labs have tested it. (Note that the original published results by DxO Labs for the 1D X Mark III were shown to be in gross error and had to be replaced. (Someone apparently shifted the entire matrix of numbers by one stop when doing the data entry of the raw measurements.)
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,288
1,129
Not many in the U.S. can afford $7,000 (or $3,899) for a camera, either. But there are 360 million people living in the U.S. There are 25 million people living in Australia. Add another 5 million if New Zealand is also served by Canon AUS..

Size of market makes a difference.

The overhead cost for keeping Canon AUS in business must be borne by 1/14 as many potential buyers compared to the overhead cost of running Canon USA. Taxes are different. The level of government services are different. Consumer protections are different. The cost of shipping in a country as large as Australia but with low population density and large areas with very little human habitation will be higher. Other economic considerations we don't even know about may also come into play.

You can't expect a grape to taste like a plum. They look similar. But they're two entirely different fruits (which may have common genetic ancestors) with two very different internal structures due to their significant difference in size.
Hey, Michael. Let me explain: Australian population Is pretty much concentrated along our eastern shores. Not evenly distributed Across the land mass. cost of distribution is quite low. So not the case. Import duties on cameras: none pretty much. There is 10% GST. That’s all. it’s the profit margins that they are chasing. And it is pretty high in this instance. And why not to milk Aussies a bit while they can? Guess what.. we are not stupid here. :D
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
Hey, Michael. Let me explain: Australian population Is pretty much concentrated along our eastern shores. Not evenly distributed Across the land mass. cost of distribution is quite low. So not the case. Import duties on cameras: none pretty much. There is 10% GST. That’s all. it’s the profit margins that they are chasing. And it is pretty high in this instance. And why not to milk Aussies a bit while they can? Guess what.. we are not stupid here. :D
If y'all are so much smarter than us ignorant yanks, then grow an economy with a GDP of $21.5T (USD) instead of $1.5T (USD) and see how that affects prices of imported cameras. We've got plenty of stupid folks here, including most of the ones that run our government, and yet we still seem to do OK in the long run.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,288
1,129
If y'all are so much smarter than us ignorant yanks, then grow an economy with a GDP of $21.5T (USD) instead of $1.5T (USD) and see how that affects prices of imported cameras. We've got plenty of stupid folks here, including most of the ones that run our government, and yet we still seem to do OK in the long run.
a share of GDP per each citizen of Australia in AUD, (local prices are not always USD bound, of course), is higher than the same in US. We are doing OK In general. however My point is: AUD$7,000 to pay for R5 is a difficult price to stomach
it is what it is though. There is always a plan B
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chz

tpatana

EOS R
Nov 1, 2012
1,459
199
It's interesting that my old Canon 50d had 15 Mpx, a big wheel at the back, a joystick and an LCD screen at the top. Ok, it had only 9 AF points and not the best ISO. But at the first glimpse, there aint much of improvement since 2008 ;)
Lol is that the best troll you can say, R5 aint much improvement from 50d :D
 

Chz

EOS 90D
Nov 19, 2014
157
53
Nope. That's why I deferred to the expertise of someone who lives in Australia who doesn't seem to think a corporation in Japan owes them a camera for the price they're charging others in a different country with differing import duties, tax structures, populations/sales numbers, and other various economic considerations.
What was the 5D4 RRP when it was released in US? The 5D4 RRP was about A$5000 in
Australia. R5 A$7000. That’s approximately 30% increased.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SecureGSM
Nov 12, 2016
846
566
Just got an email from Amazon saying my R5 (body only) is expected to arrive Aug 11 - Sep 3. Ugh! Wanted to use Amazon for the 5% cash back, don't have the B+H card.

But, I'm kind of hoping they are sandbagging on the arrival date like they do with a lot of their orders. I pre-ordered it right after I watched the premiere video on the morning they announced it. Also, doesn't it seem a little soon after the announcement and a little far away from the release date for them to be able to say with any accuracy when mine would get here, especially if it's not in the "first batch" as the email suggests? :unsure:
 

tpatana

EOS R
Nov 1, 2012
1,459
199
So I can use the old batteries from 5D4, right? I have LP-E6 and LP-E6N. R5 had LP-E6NH, so aside older and less capacity, it should work?

Do the chargers also work either way, meaning I can use old charger to charge the E6NH and the new charger to charge old E6 battery?
 

vjlex

EOS R5
Oct 15, 2011
354
261
So I can use the old batteries from 5D4, right? I have LP-E6 and LP-E6N. R5 had LP-E6NH, so aside older and less capacity, it should work?

Do the chargers also work either way, meaning I can use old charger to charge the E6NH and the new charger to charge old E6 battery?
Yup. LP-E6 originals work in the R5 and the original LC-E6 charger are said to work with the LP-E6NH. The charger hasn't changed; it's still LC-E6. Backward and forward compatible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tpatana

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
What was the 5D4 RRP when it was released in US? The 5D4 RRP was about A$5000 in
Australia. R5 A$7000. That’s approximately 30% increased.
The MSRP of the 5D Mark IV was $3,499 USD when introduced in 2016, the same as the 5D Mark III in 2012.

At that time most of us did not get charged for sales taxes when ordering from out of state retailers with no presence in the state to which the camera would be shipped. That is now no longer the case, as most states have finally caught up to the internet revolution and force out of state retailers to collect sales taxes on items shipped to their states. A U.S. Supreme Court ruling that was handed down about three years ago gave the states the authority to do so.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
So I can use the old batteries from 5D4, right? I have LP-E6 and LP-E6N. R5 had LP-E6NH, so aside older and less capacity, it should work?

Do the chargers also work either way, meaning I can use old charger to charge the E6NH and the new charger to charge old E6 battery?

Yup. LP-E6 originals work in the R5 and the original LC-E6 charger are said to work with the LP-E6NH. The charger hasn't changed; it's still LC-E6. Backward and forward compatible.
Maybe.

When Canon SILENTLY updated the battery protocol in around 2013 (the 7D Mark II in late 2014 and 5D Mark IV in early 2016 where the first models that shipped with the updated protocol as well as the slightly higher capacity LP-E6N, but the 5D Mark III also rejects full communication with older third party batteries if the firmware is version 1.2.3 released in August 2013 or later), they also made a "silent" change to the LC-E6 charger that refused to recognIze or charge some older LP-E6 batteries as genuine Canon batteries, even though they were genuine Canon batteries. Ooops!

Canon issued an advisory about it at the time. My LC-E6 chargers that came with a 5D Mark II and 7D will charge all of my third party LP-E6 clones. The LC-E6 charger that came with my 7D Mark II will not charge my older third party clones made before about 2014. I've never even taken the LC-E6 charger that came with my 5D Mark IV out of the box to try it.

If you still have any LP-E6 batteries from around 2012 or before, the new chargers made after 2014 might not accept them. It's fairly easy to use a third party charger to charge all of them, though. The Pawa charger that comes with two Pawa batteries from B&H works on every LP-E6 variant, both from Canon and several third parties (STK, Maximal Power, Watson), that I have.
 
Last edited:

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
My 5D4 charger accepts both E6N and the old E6. All genuine Canon.
It was only some of the oldest LP-E6 batteries that were affected, not all of them.

Who's to say Canon doesn't activate "LP-E6 battery protocol IIIc" with the chargers supplied with the R5 and R6 that is supposed to work with all previous LP-E6 batteries but there's another glitch like back in 2013?
 
Last edited:

Chz

EOS 90D
Nov 19, 2014
157
53
The MSRP of the 5D Mark IV was $3,499 USD when introduced in 2016, the same as the 5D Mark III in 2012.

At that time most of us did not get charged for sales taxes when ordering from out of state retailers with no presence in the state to which the camera would be shipped. That is now no longer the case, as most states have finally caught up to the internet revolution and force out of state retailers to collect sales taxes on items shipped to their states. A U.S. Supreme Court ruling that was handed down about three years ago gave the states the authority to do so.
Ignoring the tax, what is the percentage increase from the 5D4 to the R5 in US? About 10%!!! JUST $300 more than the 5D4.

What do think if the R5 RRP is $4500 instead of $3900. An increase of 30% over the 5D4. That's just $1000 more from the 5D4. Where it's A$2000 over the 5D4 0in Australia.

Another word, an increase of $300 from the 5D4 to the R5 in US. But A$2000 increase from the 5D4 to the R5 in Australia.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: Michael Clark

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
Ignoring the tax, what is the percentage increase from the 5D4 to the R5 in US? About 10%!!! JUST $300 more than the 5D4.

What do think if the R5 RRP is $4500 instead of $3900. An increase of 30% over the 5D4. That's just $1000 more from the 5D4. Where it's A$2000 over the 5D4 0in Australia.

Another word, an increase of $300 from the 5D4 to the R5 in US. But A$2000 increase from the 5D4 to the R5 in Australia.
$3,499 to $3,899 is $400, not $300. That's an 11.4% increase.

My out of pocket expense for a 5D Mark IV ordered from B&H (or anyone else not located in my home state - where I doubt anyone actually stocked the 5D Mark IV) in 2016 would have been $3,499.

My out of pocket expense for an R5 ordered from any out of state retailer now would be $4,211.

That's $712 more, or a 20.3% increase.

If I'm willing and able to pay it, I'll buy it regardless of whether an R5 costs you $10,000 AUS or $1000 AUS.

For your own good, please stop obsessing about the idea that someone somewhere halfway around the world may be getting a better deal than you!

It only affects your mental state, not ours.