Preorder: Canon EOS R5, Canon EOS R6 and new lenses

CvH

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Nov 19, 2014
168
57
$3,499 to $3,899 is $400, not $300. That's an 11.4% increase.

My out of pocket expense for a 5D Mark IV ordered from B&H (or anyone else not located in my home state - where I doubt anyone actually stocked the 5D Mark IV) in 2016 would have been $3,499.

My out of pocket expense for an R5 ordered from any out of state retailer now would be $4,211.

That's $712 more, or a 20.3% increase.

If I'm willing and able to pay it, I'll buy it regardless of whether an R5 costs you $10,000 AUS or $1000 AUS.

For your own good, please stop obsessing about the idea that someone somewhere halfway around the world may be getting a better deal than you!

It only affects your mental state, not ours.
It's a global market. I have bought many stuff from B&H. The lost is Canon Australia and the local stores.

I was just making a point about price parity. It's you that kept arguing somethings that were irrelevant to my point. Lol

May be you are retired and enjoy engaging other's comments that have no relevant to your need.

How about you stop interact with my comments?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,126
1,832
It's interesting that my old Canon 50d had 15 Mpx, a big wheel at the back, a joystick and an LCD screen at the top. Ok, it had only 9 AF points and not the best ISO. But at the first glimpse, there aint much of improvement since 2008 ;)
View attachment 191332
The 50D was my second DSLR and first non-Rebel DSLR. It's the camera with which I really learned how to shoot digital after having shot film for 30 years, though I didn't do much photography from 1995 until around 2005 when I bought my first digital compact.

I still have the 50D, though I haven't used it much at all since buying a 5D Mark II in 2011 and then a 7D in 2012.

It still looks much newer than any of my subsequent bodies (5DII, 7D, 5DIII, 7DII, and 5D IV).

There are only 31,659 clicks on it. That was probably more frames than I shot in 30 years of film, though.

My 7D II currently has over 135,000 shutter actuations, the 5D II has 70,000+, the 5D III has 77,000+, and the 5D IV already has 14,000 in just over a year. That's with practically no use since March. The 7D is on long term loan to the art/photography department of a local high school so I have no idea how many clicks are now on it.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,126
1,832
It's a global market. I have bought many stuff from B&H. The lost is Canon Australia and the local stores.

I was just making a point about price parity. It's you that kept arguing somethings that were irrelevant to my point. Lol

May be you are retired and enjoy engaging other's comments that have no relevant to your need.

How about you stop interact with my comments?
You still haven't answered my question as to why you think there has to be price parity between two different markets halfway around the world from one another with different tax structures, consumer protection laws, etc.
 

CvH

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Nov 19, 2014
168
57
You still haven't answered my question as to why you think there has to be price parity between two different markets halfway around the world from one another with different tax structures, consumer protection laws, etc.
I did. Global market. Many local businesses closed their doors as they couldn't compete with overseas markets.

People making their purchase decision do take other factors into consideration; warranty, local support etc.

You also haven't answer my question. Why the R5 only goes up 20% in US but 40% in Australia? Don't give me the lame consumer protection reason etc. As the law has not change for years.
 

vjlex

EOS R5
Oct 15, 2011
396
302
Osaka, Japan
Good news (maybe) for anyone who ordered from B&H. I'm told that, while my place on the list couldn't be divulged, it seems as if there is more than enough to fulfill their orders with the initial shipment. Grain of salt and all that. 16 days and counting!
 

JoTomOz

EOS M6 Mark II
Nov 21, 2018
89
66
www.flickr.com
My current normal sports event is 1dx and ef 70-200 F2.8, for some 8 hours (with breaks). Assuming the body and lens ergonomics allow for proper arm position, I'm not too worried.

I haven't used one though. Those who have, can you comment on size compared to e.g. Sigma 85/1.4 ?
at first it is big, but you get used to it. Have had it for about 6 months. To be honest though, I’m not someone who has an issue carrying heavy gear. Its not like I lift weights or anything- it just gets easier over time. For extended/ intensive shooting a grip is essential I reckon and makes it easier. The flexibility it offers, not needing to change lenses and still having f2 is worth it to me. I used to change between the non L primes all the time- love leaving the house with one lens more often, and catch way more shots as a result. I’ll be honest though it doesnt always come with me, sometimes I’ll just take a 35mm and that’s it.

am really excited by the 8 stop ibis rating for this lens with the r5/6 for handheld night (urban) photography- didn’t realise even though it doesn’t have lens based IS it has the gyro sensors that I guess help it in that department.
 
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tpatana

EOS 5D Mark IV
Nov 1, 2012
1,536
263
I did. Global market. Many local businesses closed their doors as they couldn't compete with overseas markets.

People making their purchase decision do take other factors into consideration; warranty, local support etc.

You also haven't answer my question. Why the R5 only goes up 20% in US but 40% in Australia? Don't give me the lame consumer protection reason etc. As the law has not change for years.
Don't be salty. Enjoy good camera.

There's hundreds of reasons why different things cost different amount in other regions. If you can buy online from other region, good for you as you have option for local price or international price. When I moved to Usa, the car I bought was $36k. Exactly same car in Finland (where I used to live) was about $100k. At the time fuel/gas in Usa was around $2.5-3/gallon, in Finland it was around $10-12/gallon. I just filed my US taxes few days ago, my final tax rate was about 16.5%. For the same income in Finland I would have paid some 50-60%. You know what big things you get for free (as in paid in taxes) in Finland? Health care, education, even housing and food if you don't have money for those.

Try to guess how many here would happily pay $1000 extra for R5 if in exchange they get free health care?

So stop being childish about the prices around the world and comparing who gets what cheaper. Every country and situation is different, even in "global market". Go get your camera and enjoy photography. If you have gripes about your country (tax)policies, this forum is not correct place to complain.
 

tpatana

EOS 5D Mark IV
Nov 1, 2012
1,536
263
at first it is big, but you get used to it. Have had it for about 6 months. To be honest though, I’m not someone who has an issue carrying heavy gear. Its not like I lift weights or anything- it just gets easier over time. For extended/ intensive shooting a grip is essential I reckon and makes it easier. The flexibility it offers, not needing to change lenses and still having f2 is worth it to me. I used to change between the non L primes all the time- love leaving the house with one lens more often, and catch way more shots as a result. I’ll be honest though it doesnt always come with me, sometimes I’ll just take a 35mm and that’s it.

am really excited by the 8 stop ibis rating for this lens with the r5/6 for handheld night (urban) photography- didn’t realise even though it doesn’t have lens based IS it has the gyro sensors that I guess help it in that department.
Yea I'm pretty much sold on the 28-70, can't really see reason why I wouldn't buy one (other than if wife sees how much it costs... need to ask the retailed to put some $500 sticker on the lens when it arrives...)
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,126
1,832
You also haven't answer my question. Why the R5 only goes up 20% in US but 40% in Australia? Don't give me the lame consumer protection reason etc. As the law has not change for years.
I have already answered that, several times:

Market conditions. This includes (but is not limited to):

Size of market
Location of market
Tax structure of market
"Local" economic condition of market
Consumer protection laws in market
Expectations of consumers within the market
Other factors that affect the cost per unit to sell in market
Price point at which projected sales maximize total profit for market
Pricing strategy between setting "standard" price higher than expected "street" price
Numbers of real "local" brick and mortar retailers vs. a few brick and mortar storefronts for what are essentially online sellers
Etc.

You or one of your fellow Australians have already pointed out that the average buying power of an Australian resident is higher than the average buying power of the average United States resident (e.g. the GDP/capita is higher in AUS than in USA).

When all of these factors are taken into account, why wouldn't Canon charge more?

If it a) costs them more to sell an R5 there and/or b) they think they can sell enough bodies at the higher price to make a higher total profit than selling a few more bodies for a much lower price and/or c) They intentionally set the RRP higher than they know the camera will actually sell for to make everyone think they are getting a "deal" at "only" $6000 AUS why wouldn't they set the price where they project it will maximize their profits? I'm sure they've done the same in the United States (set the price at the point they think will maximize TOTAL profits).

You mention not supporting local retailers in Australia. In the U.S., almost all such local retailers have gone the way of the Dodo Bird. There are a very few left in some, but far from all, of the largest cities. For the most part the "camera store" as we once knew it has disappeared from the American landscape. They couldn't compete with the big box electronics or discount stores on the low end (Best Buy, Walmart, etc.) nor with the massive online sellers (B&H, Adorama, etc) on the high end.
 
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CvH

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Nov 19, 2014
168
57
Don't be salty. Enjoy good camera.

There's hundreds of reasons why different things cost different amount in other regions. If you can buy online from other region, good for you as you have option for local price or international price. When I moved to Usa, the car I bought was $36k. Exactly same car in Finland (where I used to live) was about $100k. At the time fuel/gas in Usa was around $2.5-3/gallon, in Finland it was around $10-12/gallon. I just filed my US taxes few days ago, my final tax rate was about 16.5%. For the same income in Finland I would have paid some 50-60%. You know what big things you get for free (as in paid in taxes) in Finland? Health care, education, even housing and food if you don't have money for those.

Try to guess how many here would happily pay $1000 extra for R5 if in exchange they get free health care?

So stop being childish about the prices around the world and comparing who gets what cheaper. Every country and situation is different, even in "global market". Go get your camera and enjoy photography. If you have gripes about your country (tax)policies, this forum is not correct place to complain.
I know and completely understand about the better health care etc etc etc. And no issue paying more.

Like a few other, you completely missed my point. I explicitly refer to the increase from the 5D4 to R5. Let see if you able to explain why: *********** The R5 only goes up 20% in US but 40% in Australia?
 

CvH

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Nov 19, 2014
168
57
I have already answered that, several times:

Market conditions. This includes (but is not limited to):

Size of market
Location of market
Tax structure of market
"Local" economic condition of market
Consumer protection laws in market
Expectations of consumers within the market
Other factors that affect the cost per unit to sell in market
Price point at which projected sales maximize total profit for market
Pricing strategy between setting "standard" price higher than expected "street" price
Numbers of real "local" brick and mortar retailers vs. a few brick and mortar storefronts for what are essentially online sellers
Etc.

You or one of your fellow Australians have already pointed out that the average buying power of an Australian resident is higher than the average buying power of the average United States resident (e.g. the GDP/capita is higher in AUS than in USA).

When all of these factors are taken into account, why wouldn't Canon charge more?

If it a) costs them more to sell an R5 there and/or b) they think they can sell enough bodies at the higher price to make a higher total profit than selling a few more bodies for a much lower price and/or c) They intentionally set the RRP higher than they know the camera will actually sell for to make everyone think they are getting a "deal" at "only" $6000 AUS why wouldn't they set the price where they project it will maximize their profits? I'm sure they've done the same in the United States (set the price at the point they think will maximize TOTAL profits).

You mention not supporting local retailers in Australia. In the U.S., almost all such local retailers have gone the way of the Dodo Bird. There are a very few left in some, but far from all, of the largest cities. For the most part the "camera store" as we once knew it has disappeared from the American landscape. They couldn't compete with the big box electronics or discount stores on the low end (Best Buy, Walmart, etc.) nor with the massive online sellers (B&H, Adorama, etc) on the high end.
WRONG! The tax, consumer protection law and size of the Australian market etc. have not changed for the last 10 years in regards to camera equipments.

The 5D4 RRP in USA was $3499 and A$5000. The exchange rate was about the same as what it is now. SO all your reasons above have not changed at least for 10 years if not more.

Like I said from my previous post. Don’t use those reasons as they are NOT the factors that the R5 RRP goes up 40% in Australia.

By setting the price a lot higher than some overseas markets will encourage potential buys getting the R5 from overseas. It will be Canon Australia's lost.

My last words as you seem to continue to missed my point.
 

tpatana

EOS 5D Mark IV
Nov 1, 2012
1,536
263
I know and completely understand about the better health care etc etc etc. And no issue paying more.

Like a few other, you completely missed my point. I explicitly refer to the increase from the 5D4 to R5. Let see if you able to explain why: *********** The R5 only goes up 20% in US but 40% in Australia?
Ok, I'll explain why: The DSLR sales are still strong enough in Australia and Sony/Nikon mirrorless is not penetrating enough, so Canon thinks they don't need to compete as aggressively with the R5 price and instead they can get higher profit margin.

So to fix that, you need to go buy Sony A9III to send message to Canon that they are losing the battle.
 
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CvH

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Nov 19, 2014
168
57
Ok, I'll explain why: The DSLR sales are still strong enough in Australia and Sony/Nikon mirrorless is not penetrating enough, so Canon thinks they don't need to compete as aggressively with the R5 price and instead they can get higher profit margin.

So to fix that, you need to go buy Sony A9III to send message to Canon that they are losing the battle.
Sure. You work for Canon Australia and knew their DSLR & Mirrorless sale numbers and their marketing strategies. . You also have insight sell volumes from Sony & Nikon. Or just speculative without any facts?

It makes perfect sense to you that Canon Australia raises the R5 RRP so high (40%) that potential buyers are likely to buy them from overseas markets.

P.S. There were many complaining the price hike on the Canon Australia and Collective Facebook pages.
 
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tpatana

EOS 5D Mark IV
Nov 1, 2012
1,536
263
Sure. You work for Canon Australia and knew their DSLR & Mirrorless sale numbers and their marketing strategies. . You also have insight sell volumes from Sony & Nikon. Or just speculative without any facts?

It makes perfect sense to you that Canon Australia raises the R5 RRP so high (40%) that potential buyers are likely to buy them from overseas markets.

P.S. There were many complaining the price hike on the Canon Australia and Collective Facebook pages.
No, I work for xbox but that's the best explanation I can guess.

I still don't understand why you keep asking about this though. Try to thing it objectively, someone else is looking at some product release and goes ranting day after day "I don't like how much this thing X costs, I demand to know why it's so high!"

Especially that part "It's too high, I'll order online from international shipper".

Is there any other response to that than "ok".

You have option to do that, so I don't know what's your complain.

Another thing I don't understand is that why I'm wasting my time responding to you since clearly you're not even trying to understand.
 

CvH

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Nov 19, 2014
168
57
No, I work for xbox but that's the best explanation I can guess.

I still don't understand why you keep asking about this though. Try to thing it objectively, someone else is looking at some product release and goes ranting day after day "I don't like how much this thing X costs, I demand to know why it's so high!"

Especially that part "It's too high, I'll order online from international shipper".

Is there any other response to that than "ok".

You have option to do that, so I don't know what's your complain.

Another thing I don't understand is that why I'm wasting my time responding to you since clearly you're not even trying to understand.
I questioned people like you that didn’t know/understand the local market, tax structure and consumer law etc. that kept tell me that these are the contributing factors. And made speculative assumptions that those are the reason why the 40% price hike in Australia.

Agree. I wondered why you bother given you did not have the facts but kept trying to convince me those speculative assumptions.
 
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tpatana

EOS 5D Mark IV
Nov 1, 2012
1,536
263
I questioned people like you that didn’t know/understand the local market, tax structure and consumer law etc. that kept tell me that these are the contributing factors. And made speculative assumptions that those are the reason why the 40% price hike in Australia.

Agree. I wondered why you bother given you did not have the facts but kept trying to convince me those speculative assumptions.
Consumer law? Pretty sure it states that the companies can set the prices.

Not sure why you so mad about this. Just go out to shoot pictures, enjoy life.
 

CvH

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Nov 19, 2014
168
57
Consumer law? Pretty sure it states that the companies can set the prices.

Not sure why you so mad about this. Just go out to shoot pictures, enjoy life.
let’s agree to disagree.

I wish I can go out to photograph. Melbourne is in the middle of second wave and we are in the middle of a 6 weeks lockdown. The lockdown will extend or further restrictions if the COVID situation isn’t under control.

I am glad that I am still have a job and can work from home.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,126
1,832
WRONG! The tax, consumer protection law and size of the Australian market etc. have not changed for the last 10 years in regards to camera equipments.

The 5D4 RRP in USA was $3499 and A$5000. The exchange rate was about the same as what it is now. SO all your reasons above have not changed at least for 10 years if not more.

Like I said from my previous post. Don’t use those reasons as they are NOT the factors that the R5 RRP goes up 40% in Australia.

By setting the price a lot higher than some overseas markets will encourage potential buys getting the R5 from overseas. It will be Canon Australia's lost.

My last words as you seem to continue to missed my point.
Economic conditions in every market are constantly changing. Just because your tax structure has not changed, nor your consumer protection laws, does not mean any of a near countless other numbers of variables aren't constantly shifting. Money supply. Unemployment. The size of government subsidies. The actual amount of taxes collected will change even when the rates do not as economic activity increases or decreases. The real cost to Canon for providing legislatively required consumer warranties can go up, even if the wording of the regulation itself does not change. Perhaps the new designs are more labor intensive to perform a similar repair than with previous models? Perhaps the technicians are more capable of being fast and efficient with DSLRs that they have been repairing for decades than they are with new mirrorless designs? Perhaps some of Canon's locally sourced parts suppliers are no longer in business and the replacement suppliers cost more?

Economic conditions in one market won't necessarily be mirrored in other markets. Some markets will have better conditions at the same time other markets have deteriorating conditions. Or one market may be slightly worse while another is in intense crisis. Things may be bad in Australia right now, due to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but are your major cities also having nightly riots in the streets? Even with a global economy, there are still differences from one marketplace to the next, just as different stock indices do not move in unison. Some days the NASDAQ may be up when the Dow Jones is down. Or the Nikkei will be up in Tokyo while the FTSE (footsie) is down in London. They do tend to move in the same direction over longer periods of time, but not always. In the late 1990s tech stocks plunged at a time everything else rose (because everyone was trying to pull their money out of vastly overvalued tech stocks and put it into more traditionally stable stocks such as transportation or utilities).

All of that notwithstanding, at the end of the day Canon will price the same item in each market for whatever price they think will give them the most PROFIT in that market. If they think they can make more profit selling 10,000 cameras for a wholesale price that translates to $7,000 retail than they can make selling 10,800 bodies for a wholesale price that translates to $6,000 retail, then which price do you think they will set for the camera? If an individual retailer then decides to discount that price of $7000 because they think they can make more profit selling 30 cameras for $6,400 than they can selling 20 cameras for $7,000, then they'll do what is in their best interest.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,126
1,832
I questioned people like you that didn’t know/understand the local market, tax structure and consumer law etc. that kept tell me that these are the contributing factors. And made speculative assumptions that those are the reason why the 40% price hike in Australia.

Agree. I wondered why you bother given you did not have the facts but kept trying to convince me those speculative assumptions.
So if you know so much more about it than we do, why do you keep asking us why Canon set the price of the R5 where it did in Australia?

Why don't you tell us?

I'm beginning to think the only answer you'll possibly accept is that they did so specifically and exclusively to piss you off!
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,126
1,832
I questioned people like you that didn’t know/understand the local market, tax structure and consumer law etc. that kept tell me that these are the contributing factors. And made speculative assumptions that those are the reason why the 40% price hike in Australia.

Agree. I wondered why you bother given you did not have the facts but kept trying to convince me those speculative assumptions.
It couldn't possibly have anything at all to do with the difference in the exchange rate between the AUD and JPY in late 2015 when the price for the 5D Mark IV was likely being set and in March of 2020 when the price of the R5 was possibly being set, could it?

20200716ss1.png


In late December 2015 one AUD bought around 90 yen.

In mid-March 2020 one AUD bought around 65 yen.

In March 2020 it took 139 AUD to buy the same number of yen it took 100 AUD to buy in December 2015.

That just happens to be a 40% difference.

Hmmm. Where have we seen that number recently?

20200716ss2.png


In contrast, the difference in the value of the USD vs. the JPY compared over the same two time periods (122 vs.107) was about 14%.

Hmmmmmm.
 
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