Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Lens

infared said:
I have to say...I think that half of the people here complaining about the focusing of the 35mm f1.4 Art. Mine focuses spot on ...all the time and I just LOVE the lens. it's one of those lenses that just stuns you every time you open the files. In actual shooting situation my lens is very consistent.

+1. I didn't even think I'd like a 35mm lens on a FF body. I bought the 35mm Art as an impulse at Christmas because I got tired of waiting for the 50mm. I have to say, I love this lens. The AF is very accurate, and the colors are vivid, and it is razor sharp. Also, the field of view is very versatile, and it is nice to have so much DOF at f/1.4 compared to a longer lens like a 50mm or like my 85mm (at f/1.8). The thing lives on my camera.
 
Upvote 0

infared

Kodak Brownie!
Jul 19, 2011
1,416
16
ScottyP said:
infared said:
I have to say...I think that half of the people here complaining about the focusing of the 35mm f1.4 Art. Mine focuses spot on ...all the time and I just LOVE the lens. it's one of those lenses that just stuns you every time you open the files. In actual shooting situation my lens is very consistent.

+1. I didn't even think I'd like a 35mm lens on a FF body. I bought the 35mm Art as an impulse at Christmas because I got tired of waiting for the 50mm. I have to say, I love this lens. The AF is very accurate, and the colors are vivid, and it is razor sharp. Also, the field of view is very versatile, and it is nice to have so much DOF at f/1.4 compared to a longer lens like a 50mm or like my 85mm (at f/1.8). The thing lives on my camera.


Ah...yes...photographers..not peepers...ahhhhh...I may eventually buy the 50mm and a dock...I want to see Dustin Abbott review both first. I hope that that can happen. Until then I am loving my original Sigma 50mm!
35mm is CLASSIC on a FF for all the reasons you mentioned and the Sigma Art is a classic, too!!!
 
Upvote 0
dilbert said:
neuroanatomist said:
dilbert said:
YuengLinger said:
...
All that said, I'm surprised nobody has been discussing how odd it seems that AI Servo was apparently ok, but One Shot on a tripod wasn't...Any conjecture?
...

With a static subject and on a tripod, the reviewer should have been using "Live View" (contrast based focus) and focused through that and should not have used the normal TTL method of focusing. This would then allow the review to check that the camera was no longer vibrating (at 10x view) when they took the photo: depending on the residual motion, 2 seconds is not always enough to allow the camera to become still.

This makes me think that there are some questions to be asked about the procedures used by the reviewer as they have obviously been found wanting.

Live View focusing uses different communication protocols with the lens. Using that method would not have tested the lens' performance with PDAF, which was the whole point of the test. A 2 s delay should be quite sufficient at a 50mm FL, given the quality of support gear that Bryan has (I have ample shots – thousands – taken for AFMA to support that assertion).

Where can I find information about which communication protocol(s) are used between the body and lens for each different type of autofocus method?

I don't quite understand why you've included a reference to AFMA there. Can you please explain what you're saying more clearly?

Was the distance from the lens to the subject matter mentioned?
i.e. can we calculate what the DoF was so that we know if the focus was out a lot or a little?

but I'm curious to know how he tested the ability of the lens to focus correctly.
Is it just line up the camera, then repeat half press for focus and shoot ten times?
Or does he manual focus to infinity and then focus-shoot for each test?
Or is it focus and hold the shutter down for 10 shots?

It's the peanut gallery commentator who has been found wanting, as is frequently the case on this forum.

Who was it that said that scientific testing should detail what and how in depth?

I trust Bryan like many of us here do. I doubt he just randomly shot some photos then made made some comments on his own website without thinking it through. If you have a different approach for testing AF, I'd be very interested in hearing about it. Or you can just post a summary of what you find out using your protocol.
 
Upvote 0
Nice discussion here. I have been a lurker for quite a long time now. Forums here have helped me my choice for 5d mark II vs a 7D..
I pre ordered a sigma 50 1.4 art last week, I thought they're going to deliver the lens next month. To my surprise, I just received an email from the distributor that they already sent the item and it's on its way. Btw, I live in Norway.

I have been reading about this AF issues here on the forums but I'll still would like to try the lens. Norway has this 14-day return policy.

But when the lens arrive, hopefully by Monday - I'd really like if you guys could help me test the lens. I'm not a pro reviewer of camera gears, but if you guys help me out on testing the lens then maybe we'll clear up some issues with this lens.
 
Upvote 0
I would think any decent lens AF test would entail testing both accuracy and precision. Accuracy being roughly the degree of closeness to true focus and precision being the degree to which in unchanging conditions, the focus is repeatable. It appears that the TDP test showing AF problems exhibits poor precision. While the TDP test in field conditions for Servo shows that accuracy is not necessarily a problem. So it will be interesting to see what real world testing reveals. In the end, at least for me, unreliable AF is a deal breaker. But it is very nice to see competition in the marketplace ;D
 
Upvote 0

BLFPhoto

Canon EOS user since '91...
Here's my take on reviews and testing: What passes for "testing" in most reviews and internet reports is not really testing in the strictest sense. Statistically speaking, the sample sizes are far too small to draw meaningful conclusions with a reliable degree of veracity. Nor are test conditions sufficiently configuration managed to alleviate or mitigate outside sources of measurement error or data variability. In the cases of Sigma, Tokina, Zeiss, etc., the testing should include multiple samples mounted to multiple bodies of the major available models of camera. Further, the configurations of the camera bodies should be recorded, managed, and synced to a standard for each lens/model level 1 configuration. In other words, it would not be valid to test multiple bodies of a camera that have different settings, even if the lens is the same one used across that round of tests.

Obviously no layperson has access to this level of equipment in order to provide a comprehensive account of how a lens truly performs. The best that can be said for any given "result" reported in various reviews is that on that day, with that camera set the way it was set, with that very lens, this was the result. Often we don't even know enough about the conditions of that event to draw valid conclusions.

Some have noted that when we see trends across multiple reviewers that we can use that as evidence. Strictly speaking, that is not the case without a significant amount of analysis of the events under consideration along the lines of what I outline above. Just because two entities report issues, the results are not necessarily directly correllated unless the conditions under test were held exactly the same. Put another way, we're back to anecdotal evidence. Correlation is not causation.

That isn't to invalidate what was observed. In fact, it probably points to a need for more in depth and controlled testing in order to produce results from which a true root cause analysis can be conducted.

Another missing ingredient from most tests is a DIRECT control group. Oh...this reviewer has recorded results for this lens and the OEM lens you say? Once again, that comparison is only really valid if both lenses were tested under the exact conditions with the exact, serialized configurations. You want to say, in this case, that this Sigma's focus precision is worse than, say, the EF 50mmL f/1.2? You had better have tested both lenses across a statistically relevant sample set of each lens, and across a statistically relevant sample size of each model of camera tested, and under very strict configurations both to the camera, target setup, support, light values, etc.

Others here will disagree with what I wrote, but what I'm really saying is that we should ask the HARD questions about anything we're reading, especially if we're inclined to base our equipment investments on the data and conclusions.

The only entity I'm aware of with the access to enough population of lenses, cameras, and valid, calibrated test equipment is LensRentals. When Roger reports trends in test results for a given lens or body, I will generally place a greater faith in the applicability of the result as indicative of the true qualities of the equipment in question. But Roger isn't in the business of reviews or equipment testing. His tests are conducted against known baselines and intended to return the equipment to serviceable conditions. This means certain aspects of even his testing are not recorded or even necessary for his mission. So even his information must be understood as not strictly indicative of the absolute properties of a piece of equipment. He's said as much in one of his blog posts.

In other communities I participate in, we have established relationships with various members of the manufacturers such that engineers (in some cases the LEAD engineer) come and share their data with us. They participate in the forums to the point that they even allow us to question their data, results, conclusions, etc. Sometimes the data agrees with our outside anecdotes or even controlled testing. Sometimes not. I think it would be great if we had Canon, Sigma, Tokina, etc. engineers participate here or at least somewhere. Chuck is a good start, but truthfully, he gets beat up A LOT whenever I've seen him appear. He's also a tech rep, not an actual engineer. And my sense on this forum, so far, is that some here would not be able to play like grown ups. That happened to one manufacturer on one of the forums I'm talking about and they left the discussion and forum altogether. It was a loss to the community based on a few jackasses who could not respectfully discuss disagreements. Getting the various reviewers to participate in these discussions from time to time would be valuable as well. I, for one, would ask folks like Bryan some hard questions about their data and methods. Respectfully. Not to poke black eyes at manufacturers or review/testers, but to discover and discuss any holes relative to the data and conclusions. Over time, respectful discussions can benefit the whole community in getting better in their area of the sandbox. We know more, they build better products and provide more open data.

Anyway...I'm not saying that the various reviews are all garbage. Rather, I'm imploring people to understand what they are really seeing, and the limitations and assumptions made through the process when the review is produced. They are good data points in the case of several of the well-known sites. But they are not gospel. I, for one, am a long way from pronouncing the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 an AF disaster. It's on my list of equipment acquisitions over the next few months.
 
Upvote 0
BLFPhoto said:
Here's my take on reviews and testing: What passes for "testing" in most reviews and internet reports is not really testing in the strictest sense.

Very well put. An important thing to keep in mind.

A lot of "testing" on photo sites is just a recording of anecdotal evidence. Which still has worth, but should not be confused with actual metric testing.

One of the problems with anecdotal evidence is confirmation bias.
 
Upvote 0

docsmith

Canon Rumors Premium
Sep 17, 2010
1,261
1,337
AcutancePhotography said:
Which still has worth

....and stop......that is all. There is value to the observations, it is something for us to consider and evaluate. Each person will value those observations differently. No lens is perfect. The Sigma has been getting rave reviews optically, but now we have two trusted testing sites that have observed AF issues, of single copies, of preproduction lenses. That is all. BOTH sites still recommended the lens.

Bryan/TDP even concluded:

"While I will dock a few points from this lens for occasional AF inconsistency, the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Lens is now the overwhelming favorite in the 50mm field. This lens delivers excellent image quality, has a beautiful design and for what you get, a very attractive price. The Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Lens is the easy 50mm choice for those with a moderate budget."

Lenstip:
"....-Those arguments are so strong that we didn’t have any qualms about giving the Sigma our “Editors Choice Award” badge, even though it had a slight coma slip-up during our test and its autofocus performance on the EOS 1 Ds MkIII was patchy."

Even the groups pointing out the potential flaws are still calling this the "overwhelming favorite in the 50 mm field" and have no qualms about giving it the "Editors Choice Award" badge.
 
Upvote 0
BLFPhoto said:
In other communities I participate in, we have established relationships with various members of the manufacturers such that engineers (in some cases the LEAD engineer) come and share their data with us. They participate in the forums to the point that they even allow us to question their data, results, conclusions, etc. Sometimes the data agrees with our outside anecdotes or even controlled testing. Sometimes not. I think it would be great if we had Canon, Sigma, Tokina, etc. engineers participate here or at least somewhere. Chuck is a good start, but truthfully, he gets beat up A LOT whenever I've seen him appear. He's also a tech rep, not an actual engineer. And my sense on this forum, so far, is that some here would not be able to play like grown ups. That happened to one manufacturer on one of the forums I'm talking about and they left the discussion and forum altogether.

That is what is most telling of Sigma, Canon, ... if an acknowledged reviewer reports about a test failure, I would expect any credible manufacturer to pick up a phone, contact the reviewer and try to sort out the problems. If you know Simon Galley from Ilford (mostly on APUG), that's the kind of response I would expect, and his presence is greatly appreciated there and has given a lot of credibility to Ilford's product. Sigma and Canon prefer to hold their ears shut and sing "la la we hear nothing!!", and I am not sure that this kind of behavior is beneficial to their reputation.
 
Upvote 0
Sigma should give a cut of the profits to Zeiss. If the Otus didn't exist, people would look at the new Sigma 50mm and think "It's really nice, but a lot more expensive than the Canon 50mm f/1.4. Is the difference really worth it?". Now though, people look at this lens and think "Wow! This lens is almost as good as a $4000 lens and for just a quarter of the price. What a bargain!" Sigma is going to sell way more copies of this lens because the Otus exists :p
 
Upvote 0
Pag said:
Sigma should give a cut of the profits to Zeiss. If the Otus didn't exist, people would look at the new Sigma 50mm and think "It's really nice, but a lot more expensive than the Canon 50mm f/1.4. Is the difference really worth it?". Now though, people look at this lens and think "Wow! This lens is almost as good as a $4000 lens and for just a quarter of the price. What a bargain!" Sigma is going to sell way more copies of this lens because the Otus exists :p

Well, yeah, obviously. That's how smart businesses work: they know the quality and advantages another company has, and use it to their own advantage. Why should they give a cut to Zeiss? This isn't a communist country.
 
Upvote 0
One of the earlier reviews (ir/slrgear) points out that the sigma traded a bit of sharpness for higher micro contrast and that even though the otus had slightly higher resolution on the charts that the sigma looked sharper to the eye. They said that they would go with the sigma even if both lenses cost the same.

http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1677/cat/30

I learned from a discussion on another thread that the canon 50 f/1.2 has really nice bokeh due to that being a primary factor in its design. Apparently some spherical aberration was designed in for that. The canon probably has more consistant af? I would like to see some real world samples comparing the canon and sigma because for me the choice would be between those two lenses and not the otus, even if they all cost the same.
 
Upvote 0
candc said:
I learned from a discussion on another thread that the canon 50 f/1.2 has really nice bokeh due to that being a primary factor in its design. Apparently some spherical aberration was designed in for that. The canon probably has more consistant af? I would like to see some real world samples comparing the canon and sigma because for me the choice would be between those two lenses and not the otus, even if they all cost the same.

I too would like to see a comparison of those two lenses -- for overall rendering of various subjects. The Canon 50/1.2L has been my main 50 for a long time and I love the way it draws. It is simply beautiful. The new Sigma is interesting and no doubt sharper wide open, but will it draw as beautifully? I'm not sure I'd want to carry the bigger & heavier Sigma for the extra sharpness alone.

As for autofocus, the 50/1.2L really benefits from the improved AF of Canon's top-end cameras (currently the 1DX or 5DIII). It is a better autofocusing lens with the 5DIII than it was with the 5DII. And it is a better autofocusing lens with the 5DIII than with the 6D.

The Otus is will likely prove to be the best 50 for a DSLR. But due to size, weight, price and manual focus, the Otus will not be a practical alternative for most photographers.
 
Upvote 0