Revisiting the EOS-1D C For Your 4K Video Needs

[Canon Rumors Guy]

<p>Andrew at EOSHD recently purchased a used Canon EOS-1D C for about half the price of what they were at launch. A lot of people had a hard time swallowing the $11,000 price tag, but at $6000, is it a worthwhile investment? People have always raved about the 4K image quality of the EOS-1D C, and that hasn’t changed. Now that it can be had for half as much, maybe more people will take the plunge.</p>
<p><strong>From EOSHD

</strong><em>“The 1D C when I reviewed it was torture to be honest… I didn’t have long with the camera and although I was absolutely in love with the image I knew I couldn’t justify the £10,000 it cost to own, but the kicker was that it had so many shortcomings ergonomically and a rather awkward codec. Why not put this image in a Cinema EOS C300-style body? Having it in the 1D X housing is a mixed blessing. On the one hand there’s no better stills camera than this and no better weather sealing. The build quality is 100% pro level, you could rent it out to friends and not worry about it falling apart with tough handling in unfriendly environments”</em></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.eoshd.com/2014/12/canon-1d-c-used-price-slips-5000-decided-take-gamble-get-one/" target="_blank">Read the full article</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[sanj]

I have two.

 

[KrisK]

Mr. Reid's site is about to spiral into irrelevancy. I mean, how many of his readers are asking themselves (as he does in the article):

"... if I could spend more, where to go?"

 

[Tugela]

His readers are not pros, mostly they are enthusiasts. They don't have that sort of money to spend in the first place so the question is moot. Very few of them would (or would want to) carry around the sort of rig required to make something like a 1DC useful.

You might pay a lot for something like the 1DC for the robust build, and perhaps professionals might require that, but it is not necessary in the amateur market. There is no reason to give the amateur market junk image quality in the way Canon does, because they are clearly capable of making products with reasonable IQ. For some bizarre reason they apparently don't want to. Unless they get their act together and decide to become competitive, they are going to find the bread and butter amateur market belonging to other manufacturers who don't have such inhibitions about IQ.

Product distinction within a company should be about build quality, not image quality.

 

[AndreeOnline]

I tried to have a discussion with Andrew (EOSHD) at the launch of the 1Dc. This was around the time when Blackmagic presented their 4k S35 Cinema Production camera.

Andrew then ridiculed Canon, the 1Dc (and me for seeing its benefits), declaring that it was 'game over' for Canon. Since then he has pretty much gone on a crusade making fools out of Canon and its users.

All of this because he couldn't afford the camera, and that made him upset. Of course it was OK to complain about the price, but that has nothing to do with the camera. We have proof of that now: same camera, new price. Two different things.

Now that he could afford it, the tune is different: "insanly beautiful images", "rugged and weatherproof", "internal 4k", "stills and video in one body", "powerful Canon Log with 12 clean stops", "beautiful Canon colors".

All points that I made on Twitter 630 days ago that made him eventually call me a troll and mute me. I mean, the Blackmagic CPC was OBVIOUSLY soooo much better for $4000. So why not stick to that Andrew? Or one of the Panasonics or Sonys?

The simple answer is that the 1Dc is a real camera that works in the real world, delivering professional results. That is what matters to Canon. Not specs on a paper. I wouldn't call the Sonys and Panas "paper cameras", but some of the specs gets really over valued.

It's very OK to be super enthusiastic as a hobbyist over the cheaper cameras and the possibilities they offer. But it annoys me to no end that some people just have to slander something else in order to make themselves or their stuff look good. And as they then get the opportunity to acquire the stuff they hated so much in the beginning and it all of sudden becomes the "hidded gem no one knew about"... that's where hypocracy begings.

I would ask Canonrumors.com to think about why they link to EOSHD. Why give him the recognition? Try reading through some of the film making forums to see what his peers think of him before giving him another link/feature.

As for Andew himself: he now is in possesion of a beautiful film making tool that should suit his artistic ambitions. It might just be the eye opener he needs to straighen him out a bit and make him value the things that matter. Hopefully he'll grow with the camera.

I wrote a similar post on his forum-I later saw that it requires moderation (so it will probably never se the light of day)-but I ended it with wishing him luck with the camera. It's a real beauty. I'll end on the same note here:

Good luck with the camera, Andrew. Hopefully you'll grow with it.

 

[Peer]

I would ask Canonrumors.com to think about why they link to EOSHD. Why give him the recognition? Try reading through some of the film making forums to see what his peers think of him before giving him another link/feature.

I'll definitely second that, and also the rest of AndreeOnline's post.

-- peer

 

[Andrew Reid]

Hello!

You seem like such a friendly bunch! Guess I'll wade in and give my side of the opinion soup. Have any kind of opinion and a minority of users on 'Other filmmaking forums' will criticise you so that doesn't bother me, I get on with plenty of those users and do my best to stand up for their views on EOSHD. That view still stands that Canon need to sort out video quality on their enthusiast and consumer models. They haven't kept up with the competition.

Regarding the 1D C, the price does make it a very different prospect and I am in a very different place with my filmmaking to where I was 2 years ago. There's other logic in the mix here unrelated to video - I now need a pro stills camera and this one allows me to sell my 5D3, 5D2 and 7D which makes the upgrade cost to the 1D C a lot easier to bear. Additionally on EOSHD I want to give you as complete coverage as possible in terms of hardware for 4K video and this advice would be incomplete without a bonafide pro Hollywood camera in there as a benchmark. Also I will be taking EOSHD higher end with pro gear (Sony FS7 is next) but still the majority of the content will be based around enthusiast gear, because that is still by a large margin what I use in my own filmmaking work. Cameras like the A7S are lovely! I can only write about what I know / use! And I try to use as much of it as I can!!

My original criticisms of the 1D C still stand. It doesn't deviate enough from the 1D X to justify being double the price, to not have a better focus assist whilst shooting (peaking or punch-in / windowed zoom) or an articulated screen do hurt the ergonomics for certain types of filmmaking (esp. documentary) which is unfortunate given the enormous original price (it was $15,000!!!). I stand behind mirrorless technology as the future because it is innovative and gives us what we want in terms of video, at very reasonable prices. Loving my GH4, Samsung NX1, Sony A7S and others. 1D C though has the most cinematic image of the lot. I never argued otherwise. My problem was the price and ergonomics. Now one of them is half what it was and the other is fixable pretty cheaply with something like a SmallHD DP4 and a top handle.

For the forum nerds who do nothing but criticise, I don't see you investing £5k in your camera reviews so perhaps you'd be better off shutting up until you're in a position of logical strength.

 

[PerfectSavage]

STILLS Re: Revisiting the EOS-1D C For Your 4K Video Needs

For the 1DC owners above, a question: I have an opportunity to buy a 1DC from a friend who was an early adopter. Video aside (yes I understand that 4K is the major draw), his stills seem to have much more DR than what I can squeeze from RAW on either my 1DSMk3 or 5DMk3. I don't own a 1DX but have shot with it though I didn't manage the files afterwards.

Granted he is much more skilled in post than me, we both shoot with the same high end glass. So my question is does the 1Dc sensor afford some significantly greater DR than the 1Dx for RAW stills as well?...or only in 4K mode for video? ...and is it more likely he is simply pulling still frames from the 4K video capture or just THAT much better an editor than me?

I will only use the camera for video 50% of the time so not going to buy it unless I can show stills clients a noticeable difference in DR and overall IQ on an 18 x24 print or larger. I will wait for the next iteration of the C300 instead.

 

[AndreeOnline]

Re: STILLS Re: Revisiting the EOS-1D C For Your 4K Video Needs

For the 1DC owners above, a question:

The Canon 6D, 1Dx and 1Dc differentiate themselves from other Canon bodies in that they display significantly less banding and pattern noise in the shadows when lifted.

Lifting the shadows and painting back detail there has long been something Nikon/Sony users have been able to do, but it has been messy on the Canon side.

Other than that, the 1Dx/1Dc have pretty large photo sites with their moderate 18MP.

All of that said, the "obvious" advantage that Sony/Nikon have according to DxO is pretty academic in the real world. Very small differences in perceived shadow detail can influence contrast measurements (dynamic range) quite a bit. And the 14 stops or whatever that Nikon/Sony get relate to the lower ISOs. I'm not even sure it extends to 200.

 

[KrisK]

...I am in a very different place with my filmmaking to where I was 2 years ago.... Also I will be taking EOSHD higher end with pro gear.

That shifting-of-gear(s) is what I found disorienting. (See my post above.)

As a shamelessly cheap DIY-enthusiast, reading intimations that the A7S has inched towards 'budget' tells me that I might be reading the wrong website. That's just me.

It's akin to the feeling I sometimes get on this site, when folks who already own a 1D X downplay Canon's habitual hobbling of their lower-end models. While I understand their perspective, I simply don't share it.

Anyway, good luck.

 

[AndreeOnline]

Have any kind of opinion and a minority of users on 'Other filmmaking forums' will criticise you so that doesn't bother me…

That I can understand. Nobody cares about opinions—they are trivial at best. If I were to like the color green and someone calls me a fool for it, I couldn't care less.

When it comes to blogs looking for an audience it gets trickier. Ken Rockwell. Fake Chuck Westfall. Pretty clean cut cases where people knew what to expect. Well, most people.

But once you venture into… journalism(?), people expect knowledge, maybe some research—and not unimportant: perspective. When you pose as a journalist but write opinionated click bait—that's when you get a reaction.

There's other logic in the mix here unrelated to video - I now need a pro stills camera and this one allows me to sell my 5D3, 5D2 and 7D which makes the upgrade cost to the 1D C a lot easier to bear.

Do you remember our discussion on Twitter at all, after the launch? My pro 1Dc arguments? How the 1Dc brings a lot to the table and if you're complaining about price at least consider a user that needs the whole feature set of the camera? I'm glad you understand that point now. Keep them coming.

My original criticisms of the 1D C still stand. It doesn't deviate enough from the 1D X to justify being double the price

Why do you insist on dragging price into the camera evaluation? It's not part of the equation. It comes at the end. It's useful for 'buying advice', but has nothing to do with the camera itself.

It's an amazing camera—but insanely expensive!—a distasteful item for rich tech snobs.
It's an amazing camera—and cheap!!—shut up and take my money!

Both of the above describes an amazing camera.

1D C though has the most cinematic image of the lot. I never argued otherwise.

Honestly, it would be difficult to argue against it, so I'm sure you didn't. But you also certainly didn't come out and say that the 1Dc was the most cinematic camera with most beautiful image.

I don't know if you include me in the general "shut up, forum nerd" statement, but seeing that I paid the $12.000 I allow myself this short response.

 

[Andrew Reid]

That shifting-of-gear(s) is what I found disorienting. (See my post above.) As a shamelessly cheap DIY-enthusiast, reading intimations that the A7S has inched towards 'budget' tells me that I might be reading the wrong website. That's just me. It's akin to the feeling I sometimes get on this site, when folks who already own a 1D X downplay Canon's habitual hobbling of their lower-end models. While I understand their perspective, I simply don't share it.

Yes from now on with EOSHD I am only going to cover cameras for rich people. Going to change the domain name to NotForPeasants.com! Soon a subscription model based on people handing over one of their spare 1D C bodies in return for 5 articles will start. If you have to look at the price, you can't read EOSHD any more! Forum users will be served caviar daily at 6pm followed by pimms. And if you think I am going to continue messing about with that TOY the GH4 and hacking 5Ds to shoot raw you are much mistaken!!

 

[KrisK]

Yes from now on with EOSHD I am only going to cover cameras for rich people.

EO$HD

;D

 

[Peer]

Hello! You seem like such a friendly bunch! [...] I don't see you investing £5k in your camera reviews so perhaps you'd be better off shutting up until you're in a position of logical strength.

So we are unfriendly..?! No one here has told you to shut up -- while you, on the other hand, have a tendency to mute people, not only on your own forum, but now also here. Yet, we are the unfriendly ones..?

-- peer

 

[AndreeOnline]

I registered on his forum to talk to him directly there.

In one post I wondered out loud if Andrew will point to all the externally available information about the 1Dc (it's been out for two years and most aspects of it have been covered), or if he will read up on the camera himself and then post his findings as "new information" on his own site.

In an other post I gave a factual answer to a question being asked by an other forum user:

Q: how much of of the sensor will the Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 cover?
A: in S35 mode it's 18-35 (obviously), and in 4k mode it's roughly 22-35mm.

After those two posts I was banned. That is my annoyance with him: total lack of character or integrity. On the up side, he puts in a lot of work reading up on stuff and doing his own tests. It's too bad that it isn't worth much if what he writes is subjective, sensationalist stuff.

To first categorically dismiss Canon for so long and then buy their most expensive, and according to him overpriced, DSLR (from one perspective he is right, from another he doesn't understand pricing)—it doesn't add up.

Reading his own forum, it's clear that quite a few users are confused and frustrated. It's apparent that for many of them it's really important to hate Canon.

 

[sanj]

We are unfriendly? We?

You have two posts, and in one you call us 'criticizing nerds' and in other peasant.

Think about it.

 

[expatinasia]

Have any kind of opinion and a minority of users on 'Other filmmaking forums' will criticise you so that doesn't bother me…

That I can understand. Nobody cares about opinions—they are trivial at best. If I were to like the color green and someone calls me a fool for it, I couldn't care less.

When it comes to blogs looking for an audience it gets trickier. Ken Rockwell. Fake Chuck Westfall. Pretty clean cut cases where people knew what to expect. Well, most people.

But once you venture into… journalism(?), people expect knowledge, maybe some research—and not unimportant: perspective. When you pose as a journalist but write opinionated click bait—that's when you get a reaction.

There's other logic in the mix here unrelated to video - I now need a pro stills camera and this one allows me to sell my 5D3, 5D2 and 7D which makes the upgrade cost to the 1D C a lot easier to bear.

Do you remember our discussion on Twitter at all, after the launch? My pro 1Dc arguments? How the 1Dc brings a lot to the table and if you're complaining about price at least consider a user that needs the whole feature set of the camera? I'm glad you understand that point now. Keep them coming.

My original criticisms of the 1D C still stand. It doesn't deviate enough from the 1D X to justify being double the price

Why do you insist on dragging price into the camera evaluation? It's not part of the equation. It comes at the end. It's useful for 'buying advice', but has nothing to do with the camera itself.

It's an amazing camera—but insanely expensive!—a distasteful item for rich tech snobs.
It's an amazing camera—and cheap!!—shut up and take my money!

Both of the above describes an amazing camera.

1D C though has the most cinematic image of the lot. I never argued otherwise.

Honestly, it would be difficult to argue against it, so I'm sure you didn't. But you also certainly didn't come out and say that the 1Dc was the most cinematic camera with most beautiful image.

I don't know if you include me in the general "shut up, forum nerd" statement, but seeing that I paid the $12.000 I allow myself this short response.

I don't normally wade into this discussions, but I have to agree with what AndreeOnline has said.

I found that Andrew Reid tried to make a diplomatic reply, but then at the end could not resist a little dig.

I think what, AndreeOnline, said:

But once you venture into… journalism(?), people expect knowledge, maybe some research—and not unimportant: perspective. When you pose as a journalist but write opinionated click bait—that's when you get a reaction.

This is a big problem now and growing. Bloggers suddenly trying to become "journalists" writing this and that without any experience in the actual field of journalism or even media. Sad.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

Hey I like EOSHD!

Andrew had an opinion on the 1Dc 2 years ago, now he's expanding and looking into the strength points and finds it better than he though it was.

What's wrong with that? why is a slight change of opinion about cameras seem like a legal misconduct on the internet? I even heard people calling him with severe bipolar disorder because he changed his mind slightly on a camera. Lovely.

Come on people. Read the reviews on EOSHD and take the pros and cons he presents, and don't read if you don't want to.

Before I tried the a7s I kept going on how the colour science looks terrible, but when I used it for a while I changed my mind. What's wrong with that?

It's a camera. A cool gadget. A tool. Not a religion conversion.

I guess if these strong opinions and wars forums ended and everyone relaxed. these boards wouldn't be as entertaining as they are. So go on