Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800

[traingineer]

If you ask a typical 'entry level' user (those who buy the majority of cameras), may very well think "Kelvin" is a character on the TV show Lost, or an offensive guard for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Of those who know that it's a unit of temperature (albeit one they've never seen on a thermometer), almost none of them will associate it with color temperature for white balance (assuming they even set WB to anything other than Auto, assuming they even get their cameras out of fully automatic mode).

Very true, my tech class had a few lessons on photography, how to use a DSLR (a bunch of 1000D cameras) and how to use the cameras as an "art" tool. The big problem though, was that no one knew how to turn on the DSLRs, or put it into full auto mode. ;D (BTW this was when I was in the 9th grade)

 

[Loswr]

Classifying a "feature" as "advanced" is irrelevant. What matters is whether it is purely firmware-based and excluded. If so, then the camera IS deliberately crippled ... and thus both neuroanatomist and unfocused are wrong. So what do YOU want to be: right or wrong?

So…Canon should put every possible feature under the sun into every camera model, even if they won't be used by 99% of the owners? When trying to help someone AFMA their Nikon body+lenses, we had to scroll down through 3-4 screens of menu options in one of the several available categories (and it was not in the most logical category, the one to do with focusing) to find the AF Fine Tune option. That level of menu complexity is pointless and even detrimental to the majority users.

You can call that crippled if you want, but it may be more appropriate to describe it as an optimized user interface. That was one reason for the initial success of the Mac OS, and the subsequent attempts of Microsoft and others to copy many elements of that intuitive, user-friendly interface.

 

[Orangutan]

Some advanced features are left out, in part, because they generate expensive support calls. E.g.. AFMA is not useful to many Rebel Users, but would probably generate a lot of self-inflicted focus wounds.

Classifying a "feature" as "advanced" is irrelevant. What matters is whether it is purely firmware-based and excluded. If so, then the camera IS deliberately crippled ... and thus both neuroanatomist and unfocused are wrong. So what do YOU want to be: right or wrong?

I always find your black/white thinking amusing...or something.

You're pulling out your personal definition of "crippled:" to my mind, it's not merely a matter of whether a no-cost feature was removed, but whether that feature would be expected to be used by the vast majority of users of the product.

For example, removing the "Japanese" language features from a product that's being marketed in China, but not in Japan, can't really be considered crippling since one can't reasonably expect that feature to be used.

You should re-examine your logic when you find yourself mincing words to manufacture a "win."

 

[sagittariansrock]

@Sella174:

Most of your points have been properly addressed by other forum members, so I shall just add a few points:

1. You say you study people/societies/companies/governments: Do you mean professionally (for your sake, I rather hope not)? If not, what is the method of observation? What parameters or metrics do you use, for example, to say Canon is clueless about what the market wants. An experienced analyst will have access to the market demands as well as evidence of Canon's ignorance in this case. Do you?
It is okay if you do not know, but to not know and pretend to is not going to work in a forum filled with intelligent people.

2. The fact that earth revolves around the sun does not depend on the point of reference. Even if sun and earth are revolving around something, still the statement is true. For example, even though the earth and the moon are both encircling the sun, it is correct to say the moon revolves around the earth.

3. Profit margins and stocks aren't equal, but they are connected. In either case you aren't comparing any tangible parameters at all, just blowing hot air, so you should be one to talk!

4. Crippling cameras: IMO putting a low-speed SD card slot on the 5DIII was a mistake. Maybe they didn't have enough stocks of a high-speed slot and decided to go with what they had (just an example). Whatever the reason, no one is arguing every single move by Canon is a well-thought out one. Just that most are, all the big ones are. I think the same is true for illumination (or lack thereof) of AF points on the 5DIII. However, AFMA on Rebels: it is standard for entry level items not to come with luxury extras (yes, AFMA is a luxury that you only need with fast, accurate lenses- on a f/3.5-5.6 zoom it does not matter). When you want regular coffee, all you get with it is cream. You buy a latte for twice the price, you get steamed milk. That's how all companies serve- you pay a premium for premium services. Doesn't matter how much it costs to offer it.

L EF-S prime: Who will an EF-S L prime serve? Every single person who wants to buy a crop camera is either someone who never plans to upgrade and will be happy with kit lenses OR has an eye on upgrading in the near future. The former do not care about primes, and the latter will benefit from buying FF-compatible lenses. And you must agree, Canon has brought out excellent non-L primes for very reasonable prices (ok, eventually reasonable). A friend of mine, quite well off, didn't buy the 35/1.8 because it wasn't part of a kit. Even though she specifically wanted to shoot low-light images of her toddler. She settled for the 50/1.8 just because it is cheaper. So, where is the market for an L EF-S prime?

5. You cite some random companies- does that imply trendsetter-based marketing is the usual strategy. Yes, it is occasionally applied (under the situations I mentioned), but generally marketing strategy is very conservative and incremental. Even then, your examples show nothing. How about one single proper illustration of the concept (there are many examples out there, I just want to see if you know what you are talking about).

6. You use macros and telephotos and yet say the two f/2.8 zooms serve everyone. Good one, I think I shall stop wasting my time arguing with you at this point.

 

[Sella174]

If you ask a typical 'entry level' user (those who buy the majority of cameras), may very well think "Kelvin" is a character on the TV show Lost, or an offensive guard for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Of those who know that it's a unit of temperature (albeit one they've never seen on a thermometer), almost none of them will associate it with color temperature for white balance (assuming they even set WB to anything other than Auto, assuming they even get their cameras out of fully automatic mode). Maybe you feel the need for Kelvin WB on an entry-level dSLR…but once again, you are in the minority (an even more miniscule minority than usual, in this case).

The Kelvin scale is part of the science curriculum taught in secondary schools over here in southern Africa.

But given what you've written, why does Canon then include that colour-shift graph thing in ALL THEIR CAMERAS?

As for the SD slot in the 5DIII, most likely the camera had simply entered the design-locked period of development when the Secure Digital UHS-I standard came out. Perhaps it escaped your notice that the SD slots in the 1DsIII and 1D IV are similarly 'throttled'. The 6D is compliant with UHS-I and supports faster SD card writes, as are all cameras of a more recent design age than the 5DIII (e.g. 70D, T5i/650D, EOS M).

I said I just wrote what I've read ... yet you pounce ... on nothing!

For the 'enthusiast with three or so lenses' there are EF-S lenses that deliver excellent IQ (10-22, 17-55/2.8, 15-85), and there are L-series lenses. Canon has provided those folks with plenty of options.

None of those three are primes. All L-primes are "full-frame" and a thus "wasted" on a "crop-frame" camera.

Canon is primarily interested making a profit. A market segment is important to them only insofar as it has the potential to generate that profit. Whether or not you, me, or anyone else is 'genuinely OK with' that is totally irrelevant to Canon.

In order to make a profit, COMPANY must sell stuff to consumers. If the consumers do not like what COMPANY offers, then COMPANY doesn't sell stuff and thus COMPANY doesn't make a profit. Irrelevant indeed.

 

[Sella174]

@Sella174:

Most of your points have been properly addressed by other forum members, so I shall just add a few points:

1. You say you study people/societies/companies/governments: Do you mean professionally (for your sake, I rather hope not)?

The bold part is as far as I read your post. If you cannot post without making personal remarks, then whatever you have to say is not worth it.

 

[Loswr]

The Kelvin scale is part of the science curriculum taught in secondary schools over here in southern Africa.

But given what you've written, why does Canon then include that colour-shift graph thing in ALL THEIR CAMERAS?

Yes, it's taught here, too. Being taught about something in the past (in some cases many years ago) does not guarantee that it will be remembered today, much less that it will be applied in a totally different context from that in which it was originally presented.

Who knows why the WB shift is in all cameras? Perhaps it was coded by a sloppy programmer with multiple hooks in and out, and would be a PITA to remove the code.

As for the SD slot in the 5DIII, most likely the camera had simply entered the design-locked period of development when the Secure Digital UHS-I standard came out. Perhaps it escaped your notice that the SD slots in the 1DsIII and 1D IV are similarly 'throttled'. The 6D is compliant with UHS-I and supports faster SD card writes, as are all cameras of a more recent design age than the 5DIII (e.g. 70D, T5i/650D, EOS M).

I said I just wrote what I've read ... yet you pounce ... on nothing!

Oh, ok…so you just parroted back a criticism written by others, without any thought on your part (other than to present it as your own argument), and when shown there's a perfectly logical explanation for the feature being absent in the 5DIII and present in newer cameras, yoy make excuses and it suddenly becomes 'nothing'.

 

[unfocused]

In order to make a profit, COMPANY must sell stuff to consumers. If the consumers do not like what COMPANY offers, then COMPANY doesn't sell stuff and thus COMPANY doesn't make a profit. Irrelevant indeed.

Well...at last we have come full circle.

Canon is making a profit. It is in fact, performing better than its competitors. It is also selling more product than its competitors. So: more profit.. more sales.

By your own admission, that would prove that consumers do like what the company offers. Because who would be buying these products if it isn't consumers?

So, we are really back to where we began. No company is going to pursue 100% of the market. The incremental cost to do so far exceeds the rewards. Apparently, your wants/needs fall into the area where, at least to date, Canon does not see sufficient profit to pursue recapturing you as a customer.

Perhaps at some point in the future they will offer a product you personally want.

Glad to see you finally agree with the points that most everyone else here has already made numerous times.

 

[sagittariansrock]

@Sella174:

Most of your points have been properly addressed by other forum members, so I shall just add a few points:

1. You say you study people/societies/companies/governments: Do you mean professionally (for your sake, I rather hope not)?

The bold part is as far as I read your post. If you cannot post without making personal remarks, then whatever you have to say is not worth it.

It's an objective statement. If someone is poor at studying markets and that is what he has taken up as his profession, then it's not going to work out very well, is it? Your tall claims make it sound like you are a market strategist, but your observations are vague and unfounded. What do you expect one to conclude? Either you are a very ineffectual market analyst, or someone without the expertise, making comments based on nothing.
In any case, any impression of personal attack was unintentional and I extend my apologies.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

If you ask a typical 'entry level' user (those who buy the majority of cameras), may very well think "Kelvin" is a character on the TV show Lost, or an offensive guard for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Of those who know that it's a unit of temperature (albeit one they've never seen on a thermometer), almost none of them will associate it with color temperature for white balance (assuming they even set WB to anything other than Auto, assuming they even get their cameras out of fully automatic mode). Maybe you feel the need for Kelvin WB on an entry-level dSLR…but once again, you are in the minority (an even more miniscule minority than usual, in this case).

The Kelvin scale is part of the science curriculum taught in secondary schools over here in southern Africa.

But given what you've written, why does Canon then include that colour-shift graph thing in ALL THEIR CAMERAS?

As for the SD slot in the 5DIII, most likely the camera had simply entered the design-locked period of development when the Secure Digital UHS-I standard came out. Perhaps it escaped your notice that the SD slots in the 1DsIII and 1D IV are similarly 'throttled'. The 6D is compliant with UHS-I and supports faster SD card writes, as are all cameras of a more recent design age than the 5DIII (e.g. 70D, T5i/650D, EOS M).

I said I just wrote what I've read ... yet you pounce ... on nothing!

For the 'enthusiast with three or so lenses' there are EF-S lenses that deliver excellent IQ (10-22, 17-55/2.8, 15-85), and there are L-series lenses. Canon has provided those folks with plenty of options.

None of those three are primes. All L-primes are "full-frame" and a thus "wasted" on a "crop-frame" camera.

Canon is primarily interested making a profit. A market segment is important to them only insofar as it has the potential to generate that profit. Whether or not you, me, or anyone else is 'genuinely OK with' that is totally irrelevant to Canon.

In order to make a profit, COMPANY must sell stuff to consumers. If the consumers do not like what COMPANY offers, then COMPANY doesn't sell stuff and thus COMPANY doesn't make a profit. Irrelevant indeed.

I kind of think you want canon to go bankrupt with this idea that a few want it so it must be so because the logical points are on the contrary to what your saying. EF lenses are designed for FF, yes, but that doesn't mean that they don't work and that doesn't mean that they don't work quite well. Also, you seem to not understand that the vast majority of cop users don't want a lens that doesn't zoom, nor do they want to pay more than $300 for a lens. It would be mostly wasted money putting out a line of 'L' series EF-S lenses. It makes way more sense to have all the L's EF - L lenses are not eveyone lenses - for one they are specialized and 2 they are pricey - 1 L lens is likely to cost more than the average user is willing to pay for their whole kit. And then add that what if, what if they decide to take it to the next level but they've already spent a ton of $$$ on expnsive EF-s lenses - that's a disgruntled customer who will be more liklely to switch systems because they have to replace EVERYTHING anyways.

and yes, I do have to side with the rest of folks here - the average slr user will never learn anything about photography. I just recently had one of those average users asking me a ton of questions at a gathering. I showed her the modes, explained what the manual controls did, showed her how to manipluate it. I'd watch her walk off and snap some shots...within a minute she's back on auto, pop up flash and all.

the average user just doesn't get it, nor do they really want to - it's that idea of if i pay more then i have to do less - hence why so many people look at a pro's work and say --- wow, you must have a nice camera. LOL, for a while I got really pissed everytime that got said to me, I immediately took it as an insult - that there's no skill involved - just a nice camera and any monkey can push the button. Then I realized that it isn't an insult - they just don't know any better - nor do they really want to. Now I am not saying every entry level slr user falls into these categories, but, that is what drives the market - soccer moms buying an slr at bestbuy...so yeah, advanced features like WB and other things like that would be lost on the vast majority of users ---

while kelvin may be tough in science class, science class doesn't relate it to colors - this is what I leanred of Kelvin in high school - "The kelvin is a unit of measurement for temperature. It is one of the seven base units in the International System of Units (SI) and is assigned the unit symbol K. The kelvin scale is an absolute, thermodynamic temperature scale using as its null point absolute zero, the temperature at which all thermal motion ceases in the classical description of thermodynamics. The kelvin is defined as the fraction 1⁄273.16 of the thermodynamic temperature of the triple point of water (exactly 0.01 °C or 32.018 °F).[1] In other words, it is defined such that the triple point of water is exactly 273.16 K." Basically, science class was not a photography class for us. Hell, I don't even remember it being brought up in the photography classes I did take.

 

[Sella174]

In any case, any impression of personal attack was unintentional and I extend my apologies.

Accepted, and therefore a shall read the rest of your post.

1. You say you study people/societies/companies/governments: Do you mean professionally (...)? If not, what is the method of observation? What parameters or metrics do you use, for example, to say Canon is clueless about what the market wants. An experienced analyst will have access to the market demands as well as evidence of Canon's ignorance in this case. Do you?
It is okay if you do not know, but to not know and pretend to is not going to work in a forum filled with intelligent people.

I look at what others do, try to determine why they do it, then look whether it succeeds or not. Then, when I see somebody else doing the same that has already failed, I conclude that else isn't exactly thinking.

2. The fact that earth revolves around the sun does not depend on the point of reference. Even if sun and earth are revolving around something, still the statement is true. For example, even though the earth and the moon are both encircling the sun, it is correct to say the moon revolves around the earth.

I said, and I quote, "everything revolves around everything else". It was 100 who unfortunately misinterpreted that to mean that the sun revolves around the earth.

3. Profit margins and stocks aren't equal, but they are connected. In either case you aren't comparing any tangible parameters at all, just blowing hot air, so you should be one to talk!

Yes, they are connected ... only not in the way you connected them. You cannot directly compare the profit margin of Company A to the value of the stocks of Company B, and then draw conclusions based on it.

4. Crippling cameras: ... However, AFMA on Rebels: it is standard for entry level items not to come with luxury extras (yes, AFMA is a luxury that you only need with fast, accurate lenses- on a f/3.5-5.6 zoom it does not matter). When you want regular coffee, all you get with it is cream. You buy a latte for twice the price, you get steamed milk. That's how all companies serve- you pay a premium for premium services. Doesn't matter how much it costs to offer it.

That is a very condescending attitude towards owners of "Rebel" cameras. It is also, IMO, a shortsighted one if you are in the business of selling cameras AND LENSES. Basically, you are excluding an owner of a "Rebel" camera from purchasing an L-prime; from which this person will probably migrate to FF as and when the ol' wallet permits.

It is very interesting when we compare this attitude of removing "advanced" features by certain camera manufacturers with what other companies do. Take, for example, Microsoft and how they are packaging their Office program. Oh, yes, they have various different packages containing different combinations of the programs. But Word is Word, irrespective of whether it is the Student or the Full version. And how many features of Word or Excel does the average user use? I've read figures of 20% ... but it is not the same 20% for everyone. Thus Word is usable by a really wide audience, i.e. big market.

L EF-S prime: Who will an EF-S L prime serve? Every single person who wants to buy a crop camera is either someone who never plans to upgrade and will be happy with kit lenses OR has an eye on upgrading in the near future. The former do not care about primes, and the latter will benefit from buying FF-compatible lenses. And you must agree, Canon has brought out excellent non-L primes for very reasonable prices (ok, eventually reasonable). A friend of mine, quite well off, didn't buy the 35/1.8 because it wasn't part of a kit. Even though she specifically wanted to shoot low-light images of her toddler. She settled for the 50/1.8 just because it is cheaper. So, where is the market for an L EF-S prime?

Are you not now doing what you are accusing me of doing: basing a statement of fact on a single person? But that aside, yes, "eventually reasonable" because nobody bought them and Canon HAD TO LOWER the price to get units moving off shelves.

Also, really, not everyone aspires towards a FF camera ... well, at least not until Canon gets the pixel density up to the same as their current APS-C sensors.

5. You cite some random companies- does that imply trendsetter-based marketing is the usual strategy. Yes, it is occasionally applied (under the situations I mentioned), but generally marketing strategy is very conservative and incremental. Even then, your examples show nothing. How about one single proper illustration of the concept (there are many examples out there, I just want to see if you know what you are talking about).

One single example, huh? How about the fashion industry? Who sets the trends? Definitely those folks at Cannes, the Oscars and, in Europe, of the royal families. Who does not set the trend? Sods like me who wear functional clothes ... usually mud encrusted and grime smeared.

6. You use macros and telephotos and yet say the two f/2.8 zooms serve everyone. Good one, I think I shall stop wasting my time arguing with you at this point.

The point of debate was that Sony only has four lenses for the FE-mount, but Canon has a gazillion and one. My point was simply that of all the available Canon lenses, those two (the 24-70mm and the 70-200mm) are the lenses most recommended BY MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM to others seeking advice on purchasing a lens (of the L-zoom-type). So, the deduction is that if everyone recommends them, then, on the assumption that they also actually own them, those two lenses are the lenses that suffices in most consumers' needs.

 

[Sella174]

...

OK, I get it. Canon is playing the numbers game: the once-off sale of a "Rebel" camera to a "soccer mom" is sustainable because there are 4 billion people on earth. No way that market is ever going to dry up.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

...

OK, I get it. Canon is playing the numbers game: the once-off sale of a "Rebel" camera to a "soccer mom" is sustainable because there are 4 billion people on earth. No way that market is ever going to dry up.

4 billion, yup, and those 4 billion are making more babies too. These are the folks that buy camera kits like they buy phones - next model, gotta get it.

Canon and nikon both do this same game - they have their pro gear and the prosumer gear then the rest of it. People looking to get a decent camera for under $1000 aren't buying L lenses!!!!!! - whether their prime or not, they won't be buying them unless they learn a thing or 2 and want to learn more about photography - and even then they may opt for something like the 50 1.4 because it's close to 1k cheaper.

That is a very condescending attitude towards owners of "Rebel" cameras. It is also, IMO, a shortsighted one if you are in the business of selling cameras AND LENSES. Basically, you are excluding an owner of a "Rebel" camera from purchasing an L-prime; from which this person will probably migrate to FF as and when the ol' wallet permits.

Gotta say something about this ---Rebel owners aren't excluded from any of L lenses - in fact, it's FF owners who are excluded from using EF-S lenses. Hell, some even LIKE using L glass on crop cameras because of the crop factor - one can make a very valid argument that things like soft corners aren't an issue as much using L glass (not just primes) on crop because your getting the sweet spot of the lens! Either way, on any given day if you followed the path of 100 first time slr buyers, how many of them will actually pursue photography in more than a very casual manner? My guess is not that many. I am not saying that in spite, or to be insulting - whats wrong with just wanting a nice camera to take pics of the kids????

 

[Loswr]

...

OK, I get it. Canon is playing the numbers game: the once-off sale of a "Rebel" camera to a "soccer mom" is sustainable because there are 4 billion people on earth. No way that market is ever going to dry up.

4 billion, yup, and those 4 billion are making more babies too. These are the folks that buy camera kits like they buy phones - next model, gotta get it.

Canon and nikon both do this same game - they have their pro gear and the prosumer gear then the rest of it. People looking to get a decent camera for under $1000 aren't buying L lenses!!!!!! - whether their prime or not, they won't be buying them unless they learn a thing or 2 and want to learn more about photography - and even then they may opt for something like the 50 1.4 because it's close to 1k cheaper.

That is a very condescending attitude towards owners of "Rebel" cameras. It is also, IMO, a shortsighted one if you are in the business of selling cameras AND LENSES. Basically, you are excluding an owner of a "Rebel" camera from purchasing an L-prime; from which this person will probably migrate to FF as and when the ol' wallet permits.

Gotta say something about this ---Rebel owners aren't excluded from any of L lenses - in fact, it's FF owners who are excluded from using EF-S lenses. Hell, some even LIKE using L glass on crop cameras because of the crop factor - one can make a very valid argument that things like soft corners aren't an issue as much using L glass (not just primes) on crop because your getting the sweet spot of the lens! Either way, on any given day if you followed the path of 100 first time slr buyers, how many of them will actually pursue photography in more than a very casual manner? My guess is not that many. I am not saying that in spite, or to be insulting - whats wrong with just wanting a nice camera to take pics of the kids????

Chuck, you sound like you have an understanding of the viewpoint of the majority of dSLR buyers. Fortunately for Sella174 (and unfortunately for the rest of us), I don't think comprehension is contagious…

 

[Sella174]

Gotta say something about this ---Rebel owners aren't excluded from any of L lenses - in fact, it's FF owners who are excluded from using EF-S lenses. Hell, some even LIKE using L glass on crop cameras because of the crop factor - one can make a very valid argument that things like soft corners aren't an issue as much using L glass (not just primes) on crop because your getting the sweet spot of the lens! Either way, on any given day if you followed the path of 100 first time slr buyers, how many of them will actually pursue photography in more than a very casual manner? My guess is not that many. I am not saying that in spite, or to be insulting - whats wrong with just wanting a nice camera to take pics of the kids????

I completely agree with that in general.

However, why do the "higher-end" cameras have (or should that be, need) AFMA? Whatever the reason (manufacturing tolerances or deliberate), just because the "Rebel" jobbies lack said functionality, an L-prime in all probability will not work/focus 100% (or even 98%) on said "Rebel" camera(s). This effectively prevents "Rebel" owners from using L-primes on their cameras ... or the other way around, preventing people already owning L-primes from using "Rebel" cameras. (To prove last statement, the 700D is a better camera than my ancient 30D ... in most respects. It thus prevents upgrading through downgrading.)

 

[100]

I said, and I quote, "everything revolves around everything else". It was 100 who unfortunately misinterpreted that to mean that the sun revolves around the earth.

If everything revolves around everything else, the sun must also revolve around the earth unless the sun and/or the earth aren’t part of everything.
So what’s next? Your “expertise” on the subject of semantics?

 

[Sella174]

Chuck, you sound like you have an understanding of the viewpoint of the majority of dSLR buyers. Fortunately for Sella174 (and unfortunately for the rest of us), I don't think comprehension is contagious…

But why, o great neuroanatomist, do you not then conform to the majority of DSLR owners and own only a "Rebel" with a single kit lens. Why, oh, why have you turned your back on the majority ... and joined the minority by purchasing a 1DX and heaps of L-glass?

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

Gotta say something about this ---Rebel owners aren't excluded from any of L lenses - in fact, it's FF owners who are excluded from using EF-S lenses. Hell, some even LIKE using L glass on crop cameras because of the crop factor - one can make a very valid argument that things like soft corners aren't an issue as much using L glass (not just primes) on crop because your getting the sweet spot of the lens! Either way, on any given day if you followed the path of 100 first time slr buyers, how many of them will actually pursue photography in more than a very casual manner? My guess is not that many. I am not saying that in spite, or to be insulting - whats wrong with just wanting a nice camera to take pics of the kids????

I completely agree with that in general.

However, why do the "higher-end" cameras have (or should that be, need) AFMA? Whatever the reason (manufacturing tolerances or deliberate), just because the "Rebel" jobbies lack said functionality, an L-prime in all probability will not work/focus 100% (or even 98%) on said "Rebel" camera(s). This effectively prevents "Rebel" owners from using L-primes on their cameras ... or the other way around, preventing people already owning L-primes from using "Rebel" cameras. (To prove last statement, the 700D is a better camera than my ancient 30D ... in most respects. It thus prevents upgrading through downgrading.)

What I really don't get is ----outside of the the majority of the market, people who learn and want to step up and buy nicer gear ---if they are at that place then they would know what bodies can be calibrated and which can't. And sorry, if your at that stage and want to keep the budget low then you have to make compromises. You go with a used body, and rock your L prime on that. Or, accept the limitations and turn lemons into lemonade.

Again, nothing is preventing anyone from using an L prime on a rebel - yes you won't get the same functions as some of the higher end bodies but that isn't stopping you from using them.

 

[Sella174]

If everything revolves around everything else, the sun must also revolve around the earth unless the sun and/or the earth aren’t part of everything.

Basic physics. Perhaps read a book about it ... or go watch Takalani Sesame.

 

[Sella174]

What I really don't get is ----outside of the the majority of the market, people who learn and want to step up and buy nicer gear ---if they are at that place then they would know what bodies can be calibrated and which can't. And sorry, if your at that stage and want to keep the budget low then you have to make compromises. You go with a used body, and rock your L prime on that. Or, accept the limitations and turn lemons into lemonade.

Again, nothing is preventing anyone from using an L prime on a rebel - yes you won't get the same functions as some of the higher end bodies but that isn't stopping you from using them.

Again, I agree in essence with everything. From the perspective of the user/consumer it makes perfect sense to compromise and perhaps purchase secondhand.

However, for a company like Canon who is in the business of making a profit, nudging a customer towards purchasing a secondhand camera instead of a new one, is anathema ... or at least it should be.

OK, you could argue that A bought the camera from B, because B bought a new camera - this is one sale for Canon. But if A rather buys new, because the latest "Rebel" is better than what B is selling; and B anyway buys a new camera, then it is two sales for Canon ... and C buys B's camera, thus pulling in a third potential repeat customer. Next round we might see three sales for Canon and a fourth, fifth and sixth entrant. However, in the first scenario, only B ever buys a new camera and the rest buy secondhand (A from B, C from A, and so on) - it thus sticks to one sale for Canon, forever.