There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016 [CR2]

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
Sporgon said:
Also I might add, from my point of view I think the 24 MP is too high for the sort of market this camera is aimed at, which I guess is reasonably casual shooting. I find I have to have the camera rock steady, or use a very fast shutter speed to get the IQ that I want. Then, with a good lens it's pretty good. I found the 16 MP crop cameras that I have used to be much better in that regard. But then I guess that's progress.

Thanks for a great reply. Really helpful, thanks.

I will slightly disagree on the point above -- one would think it needs to outresolve a cell phone to market itself well to the social media crowd, but I could be wrong.

- A
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Sporgon said:
I wonder how many of the guys insisting on built in EVF have tried the detachable one. It's actually really neat as it can be tilted up 90 degrees, so you can look straight down, or anywhere in-between. Also it's in the middle of the camera in line with the lens and is very comfortable. I found the pop-up on the Sony horrible to hold and view being right off to the side of the camera. You then have the option of removing it and making the camera pocketable with the pancake lens.

The downside is that you can't use a decent flash with the EVF in place, and I have found that to be a problem occasionally. Also you have to buy the viewfinder with the M3 as a kit or it is too expensive, but when bought as a kit the Canon smokes the competition in terms of value for money.

DPAF would be great but I agree with rrpphoto; it may be the dslr flange distance based DPAF does;t work too well on the much shorter mirror less distance.

I really like the articulating EVF. I find I use it more on a tilt then I do straight down. on such a small camera, having a fixed EVF is just freaking awkward.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
rrcphoto said:
I really like the articulating EVF. I find I use it more on a tilt then I do straight down. on such a small camera, having a fixed EVF is just freaking awkward.

Slightly OT, but on the comment of a tilting VF, I saw this hack of an older Powershot N to fashion a modern day waist-level 'faux TLR' rig and thought it was clever:

http://www.diyphotography.net/spoil-point-shoot-making-waist-level-shooter/

Okay. Back on topic, sorry. :D

- A
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
thetechhimself said:
1kind said:
So it seems everyone wants DPAF, built-in EVF and 80D specs (APS-C, 24MP)

Want a built in EVF, but I'd do without it too.

DPAF? No. Just better AF, 80D DPAF is better than Hybrid CMOS AF III, but frankly if they did it via updated Hybrid CMOS AF IV, or something else superior to Hybrid CMOS AF III, sure.

A/D on chip would be nice, but once again really if they can "fix" the AF and "fix" the buffer on continous shooting, do away with powershot menus and reduce camera boot times, I'd be happy.

another thing to consider.

*IF* Canon considers the SIZE of the camera important. (there is a good indication they do, since they mention all the time about the size and weight of it.. especially in Japan / Asia) then the EVF is probably a no go.

Consider that it's impossible for canon to add an EVF into that camera without:

a) changing the LCD down to a 16:9 LCD (which would suck some raging feverish monkey nuts)

b) significantly increase the height and/or width of the camera.

c) drop the flash.

so canon would have to increase the size to somewhere around the same as an X-E2 to maintain the EVF, 4:3 screen and flash.

b025b08191d41fc90a2333cbeb3ac9b9.png


*if* canon does surmise that they feel they need to keep their MILC's small .. I can't see it.


the M3's closest competitors in terms of size is really the X-A2 and the A5100 as far as current cameras.

Neither one of them have EVF's .. hell neither of them even have an EXTERNAL EVF option.
 
Nov 29, 2015
31
21
DomTomLondon said:
I love my 5D3 and Canon lenses, but when I wanted a small, light, mirrorless walk around camera for everyday street and portrait shooting I didn't see anything interesting in the Canon department. Instead I went for a used Fuji XE1, an old 24mm and 40mm manual focus prime combo from Olympus and Voigtlander and I'm very happy with the kit.

The 5D3 is gathering dust on the shelf....
Actually, even the original M is a small, light, mirrorless walk around camera for everyday street and portrait shooting. It's very good at that. The 22 F2 is excellent, as is the 50 F1.8 STM or 40 F2.8 pancake on an adapter. The original M isn't very good for fast action shooting (nor are any of the other Ms, apparently, though I haven't tried them). I have never had any trouble getting excellent street and portrait (and landscape) shots with my M. I have no idea why anyone else would have trouble either, unless they simply don't know how to use the camera.
 

AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
Alastair Norcross said:
Actually, even the original M is a small, light, mirrorless walk around camera for everyday street and portrait shooting. It's very good at that. The 22 F2 is excellent, as is the 50 F1.8 STM or 40 F2.8 pancake on an adapter. The original M isn't very good for fast action shooting (nor are any of the other Ms, apparently, though I haven't tried them). I have never had any trouble getting excellent street and portrait (and landscape) shots with my M. I have no idea why anyone else would have trouble either, unless they simply don't know how to use the camera.

I agree with most you say ... my M (1st gen) has become my main camera, 5D3 sits in pelicase in closet most of the time. However, the EOS M AF system is pathetic and limiting in everyday use, even with modestly moving subjects, especuially combined with lack of a viewfinder. If one is happy with it (or M3 for that matter) it just means you have never tried a really decent mirrorless camera like A6000/A63000 or Fuji XT-1 or Oly M5 ...
 

pwp

EOS R6
Oct 25, 2010
2,530
24
DPAF & EVF would kick a winning goal for Canon with the M5.

But for a lot of the EVF grumblers, just get an SL1. All the EF-S options and it's just TINY!

-pw
 

tomsop

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 23, 2012
80
12
Maybe I am trying too hard to interpret what was really rumored but the word "slight' to me means no DPAF and no 80d in an eos-m body. I know we may hear more detail in the weeks to come. Right now the word 'slight' is keeping expectations at a reasonable level - which means get ready to be disappointed yet again.
 

AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
tomsop said:
Maybe I am trying too hard to interpret what was really rumored but the word "slight' to me means no DPAF and no 80d in an eos-m body. I know we may hear more detail in the weeks to come. Right now the word 'slight' is keeping expectations at a reasonable level - which means get ready to be disappointed yet again.

exactly. most of us have taken notice of that not very subtle undertone. i do expect "no built-in EVF" ... "no kick-ass DP-AF" ... and overall functionality "crippled down to rebel class at best, but maybe this time no longer to powershot standards (firmware)".

it is that bleak outlook that *makes me go berser* after waiting for a "worthwhile, functionally fully competitive" EOS M body for many years.
 

Ebrahim Saadawi

EOS 90D
Aug 29, 2014
154
0
This complete speculation from my part but I strongly believe the next Eos M sucessor (whatever name it takes, m5) is going to be:



1- 24.2 megapixel APS-C (80D one)

2 -Dual Pixel Auto focus system

3 -Internal Wifi and NFC

4 -Tiltable LCD for self and up and down

5 -Higher burst rate around 5-6fps

6 -1080p Video MP4 and MOV up to 60p. 3.5mm microphone input.

7 -Tweaked body design for slight more control/button or two.

8- 999 USD to 1300 USD price range (with kit lens)

These 8 I am quite sure will be the in the specifications.

Why?

1- First of all it will use an existing Canon APS-C chip. Not have one designed and fabricated for it. So t6i or 80D. M3 already has t6i chip, so moving up market into 1000$ will surely get up the 80D sensor especially since it will give a significant pump in the AF department which is the M3's biggest critique. 80D sensor vs t6i is quite similar image but: has higher DR at low ISO and has DPAF.

2- DPAF: beause AF is the most critisized part of the current model.

3- Wifi\NFC because all Canon cameras have it now including a 1300D entire update from 1200D just for wifi so they thnk it's VERY important.

4- Tiltable LCD: Of course. And it will go to selfie position for the target market as well as the useful up and down movements.

5- 5.5fps vs 4fps with slightly larger buffer: because it's in the rebel line, and Canon always update speed with new successors apart from a few exceptions. And because it's moving up market.

6- 1080p, 60p vs 30p: Because most Canon APS-C cameras are now 1080p 60p and no Canon APS-C does 4K. So it will have the same 80d video quality and features like decent HD with DPAF and selfie touch panel. Because it will be marketed for V-loggers.

7- Tweaked body with more buttom or two/larger grip: Because it's moving upmarket

8- 1000/1300$ price: because it's moving up market and rivaling Sony A6000.


Features that are plausable but I am not sure about at all:

1- Built-in Electronic VF

2- Anti-flicker mode

3- Silent electronic shutter option

4- More shots per battery.

5- 3.5mm headphone output (like 80d and up)

Fingers crossed for 1 & 4
 

ashmadux

Art Director, Visual Artist, Freelance Photography
Jul 28, 2011
476
65
New Yawk
photography.ashworld.com
AvTvM said:
Alastair Norcross said:
Actually, even the original M is a small, light, mirrorless walk around camera for everyday street and portrait shooting. It's very good at that. The 22 F2 is excellent, as is the 50 F1.8 STM or 40 F2.8 pancake on an adapter. The original M isn't very good for fast action shooting (nor are any of the other Ms, apparently, though I haven't tried them). I have never had any trouble getting excellent street and portrait (and landscape) shots with my M. I have no idea why anyone else would have trouble either, unless they simply don't know how to use the camera.

I agree with most you say ... my M (1st gen) has become my main camera, 5D3 sits in pelicase in closet most of the time. However, the EOS M AF system is pathetic and limiting in everyday use, even with modestly moving subjects, especuially combined with lack of a viewfinder. If one is happy with it (or M3 for that matter) it just means you have never tried a really decent mirrorless camera like A6000/A63000 or Fuji XT-1 or Oly M5 ...


The M1 is also my Daily Camera. Besides the 22f2 I occasionally use it with a 50 or my new 35 IS. After years of practice, I find it eternally easier to compose my images at the correct angle as I want without breaking my neck or doing yoga moves when the camera is attached to my face. Especially if you're doing anything low, which does get annoying, but it is doable.

I'm mostly perplexed with the people who say that they cannot use the camera in sunlight because that is pretty much the majority of time when I'm using the camera. What am I doing so well that I can actually still see my subjects and composite my shots zoom in 10x to make sure I'm hitting the eyes and shoot shoot shoot without getting upset and angry? I have no idea but it's been working for me. Sunday I had a shoot with the 35 on it, and the 22 just sometimes surprises the living hell out of me as the shots are almost as good as what came out of the 5 to 3 on that same day.

I value my M1 so much as my daily that I protect it like your life depended on it. I need my equipment to work when I need it to without any fuss, and just get it done. Regardless of the AF limitations, it certainly beats my 5d3 in a flexibility being able to focus on the edges of the frame. I'm really interested to see how the 5D4's 61 points of AF, because middle of the frame af points really screw up my compositions - leading to heavy cropping of my images. Pretty damn annoying.
 

Dylan777

EOS-1D X Mark III
Nov 17, 2011
5,514
9
Sporgon said:
I wonder how many of the guys insisting on built in EVF have tried the detachable one. It's actually really neat as it can be tilted up 90 degrees, so you can look straight down, or anywhere in-between. Also it's in the middle of the camera in line with the lens and is very comfortable. I found the pop-up on the Sony horrible to hold and view being right off to the side of the camera. You then have the option of removing it and making the camera pocketable with the pancake lens.

The downside is that you can't use a decent flash with the EVF in place, and I have found that to be a problem occasionally. Also you have to buy the viewfinder with the M3 as a kit or it is too expensive, but when bought as a kit the Canon smokes the competition in terms of value for money.

DPAF would be great but I agree with rrpphoto; it may be the dslr flange distance based DPAF does;t work too well on the much shorter mirror less distance.

I like to echo on the detachable EVF.

I owned the detachable evf on my old RX1(see first pic below). Things I found are not function well for me.

1. When you shoot with evf stands up at 90deg, one or two shots is fine, but when you shoot for long time it does bother my neck.
2. Pushing the shutter button is also in awkward, especially on slower shutter speed.
3. One more item to remember to carry around
4. As you mentioned, flash(it doesn't apply in my case since I don't shoot flash)
5. It doesn't look right(too me of course)


The pop-up evf, however, I feel it a great feature. It's there when you need it and it can be hide away when not in use. It keeps mirrorless body smaller and cleaner.(see 2nd pic)
 

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Uneternal

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 25, 2016
65
38
Still waiting for the rumored full frame mirrorless.
IF this camera is coming, please Canon, please don't mess it up and let it take EF lenses without adapter.
 

tron

EOS R5
CR Pro
Nov 8, 2011
4,961
1,315
Uneternal said:
Still waiting for the rumored full frame mirrorless.
IF this camera is coming, please Canon, please don't mess it up and let it take EF lenses without adapter.
In that case there is no much gain in size. Distance between the lens and the sensor should be the same. So the camera will not be small...
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
Uneternal said:
Still waiting for the rumored full frame mirrorless.
IF this camera is coming, please Canon, please don't mess it up and let it take EF lenses without adapter.

Syntax is everything: "please don't mess it up and let it take EF lenses without adapter"

Could mean: [Please don't mess it up] and [please let it take EF lenses without adapter], i.e. you do not think adapters are a good idea. You want to use EF lenses without an adapter.

Or it could also mean: [Please don't mess it up] [by letting it take EF lenses without adapter], i.e. you want to keep the rig small with purpose-built lenses for a small flange distance. EF lenses would still work, but an adapter would be required.

Please clarify -- which of the two did you mean?

- A
 

tron

EOS R5
CR Pro
Nov 8, 2011
4,961
1,315
ahsanford said:
Uneternal said:
Still waiting for the rumored full frame mirrorless.
IF this camera is coming, please Canon, please don't mess it up and let it take EF lenses without adapter.

Syntax is everything: "please don't mess it up and let it take EF lenses without adapter"

Could mean: [Please don't mess it up] and [please let it take EF lenses without adapter], i.e. you do not think adapters are a good idea. You want to use EF lenses without an adapter.

Or it could also mean: [Please don't mess it up] [by letting it take EF lenses without adapter], i.e. you want to keep the rig small with purpose-built lenses for a small flange distance. EF lenses would still work, but an adapter would be required.

Please clarify -- which of the two did you mean?

- A
+1 Good point. To rephrase it in a mathematical way:

(don't mess it up) and (let it take EF lenses without adapter).

don't (mess it up and let it take EF lenses without adapter).

;D
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
tron said:
Uneternal said:
Still waiting for the rumored full frame mirrorless.
IF this camera is coming, please Canon, please don't mess it up and let it take EF lenses without adapter.
In that case there is no much gain in size. Distance between the lens and the sensor should be the same. So the camera will not be small...

Exactly. When the lens gets above a standard focal length or gets faster than f/2, the size savings in mirrorless are lost. And people are 100% likely to bolt their big EF lenses on these cameras. Ask Sony users, who just demanded f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms from their company.

So there is a brutal logic in simply making a full EF mount mirrorless setup. Will Canon do this? Probably not -- they have shown a love of keeping things small, which means a new 4th mount for stills just for FF mirrorless.

- A
 

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rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
ahsanford said:
tron said:
Uneternal said:
Still waiting for the rumored full frame mirrorless.
IF this camera is coming, please Canon, please don't mess it up and let it take EF lenses without adapter.
In that case there is no much gain in size. Distance between the lens and the sensor should be the same. So the camera will not be small...

Exactly. When the lens gets above a standard focal length or gets faster than f/2, the size savings in mirrorless are lost. And people are 100% likely to bolt their big EF lenses on these cameras. Ask Sony users, who just demanded f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms from their company.

So there is a brutal logic in simply making a full EF mount mirrorless setup. Will Canon do this? Probably not -- they have shown a love of keeping things small, which means a new 4th mount for stills just for FF mirrorless.

- A

they can create a smaller full frame camera than a 6D and 5D.

they just have to move down to rebel ergonomics .. or basically crap Sony A series cramped ergonomics to do so.

there's nothing stopping them from making a full frame EF mirrorless the size of an SL1 or even smaller.
 

Dylan777

EOS-1D X Mark III
Nov 17, 2011
5,514
9
ahsanford said:
tron said:
Uneternal said:
Still waiting for the rumored full frame mirrorless.
IF this camera is coming, please Canon, please don't mess it up and let it take EF lenses without adapter.
In that case there is no much gain in size. Distance between the lens and the sensor should be the same. So the camera will not be small...

Exactly. When the lens gets above a standard focal length or gets faster than f/2, the size savings in mirrorless are lost. And people are 100% likely to bolt their big EF lenses on these cameras. Ask Sony users, who just demanded f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms from their company.

So there is a brutal logic in simply making a full EF mount mirrorless setup. Will Canon do this? Probably not -- they have shown a love of keeping things small, which means a new 4th mount for stills just for FF mirrorless.

- A

Agree, on top of that bigger/heavier native lenses on small body create awkward to shoot in certain situation. I do feel that on my 247GM and 70200Gm with my a7rii. This could be an issue for those with larger hands.

On the other hand, having couple small native primes( 35f2.8, 55f1.8, 28f2 and batis) feel very good as walk around combo.