There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016 [CR2]

AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
I still fail to see, what speaks against Canon making a worthwhile EOS M5 with extremely little R&D efort involved, just by putting 80D innards minus mirror plus EVF [e.g. G5X] into it, instead of launching yet another subpar, underspecced, lacklustre, embarassing, fun-killing piece of sh*t.

While it may not save Canon on its own, it certainly would not bankrupt them either, if it failed and only myself and 3 others on this forum would pick it up. Right? :)
 

ashmadux

Art Director, Visual Artist, Freelance Photography
Jul 28, 2011
476
65
New Yawk
photography.ashworld.com
AFAIC All they need to do is put back the m1 touch interface/firmware (Ui speed + AF updates of course), change that dreadful one movement screen to a full articulating version (g5), and design it in a way that it can have a nice grip like my m1 does (weight to counter the shakes). Lastly, Batteries are a huge issue, especially since no one made 3rd party ones. I have 4 opteka batteries for the m1 that last way longer than the canon garbage.

I've 'survived' for sooo long with no EVF on my m1, and it a bunch of whining on forums doesn't affect that one bit :) The way it rains batteries makes it a non starter in the field.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
25,584
3,918
Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016

AvTvM said:
In fact I am the ONLY OTHER person on earth - according to CanonFanBoy Neuronomics - who would be interested in and BUY one or all of the following products, if stupid Canon would only make and sell 'em ...

1. Canon EOS M5 [APS_C mirrorless ILC]
with functionality+capabilities exactly like 80D minus mirror, plus built-in EVF, size similar to M3, priced at USD/€ 1000

2. Canon EOS X1 [FF mirrorless ILC]
capabilities exactly like 5D IV minus mirror, sized like Sony A7/R II, priced not higher than equivalent Sony A# model ...
plus a lineup of optically very good, yet affordable and "as compact as possible" native lenses ... positioned exactly like EF-M lenses, only for FF image circle.

3. Canon "RX1" [FF compact with 3x zoom]
Ultra-compact mirrorless FF cam with 5D4 DP-AF sensor and an excellent Canon 24-70mm/2.8 L IS blue-goo zoom up front (no lens mount), priced at USD/€ 2000

More predictions? Let's consult the wayback machine...

lintoni said:
AvTvM said:
Hehe, over the next few years you will think a lot about my prediction on how the transition to mirrorless cams will happen at Canon.
It is now so clear to see how things evolve ... but obviously not for everyone.

Well, have fun with mirrorslappers, while it lasts. I don't mind, as long as i get cameras that are a lot smaller, a lot lighter and a lot more capable than anything that could be possibly achieved woth a flapping mirror inside. :)
Nobody will be wasting any time thinking about how you want Canon's cameras to evolve to provide you with the camera that you think you want, because it isn't going to happen. My prediction? A lot of forum whinging from you about how Canon hasn't made the camera you want, despite you writing a detailed road map of how they should go about doing so. :)

Nearly two years later, and lintoni's prediction was spot-on.


AvTvM said:
I still fail

Right?

Right!
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
AvTvM said:
I still fail to see, what speaks against Canon making a worthwhile EOS M5 with extremely little R&D efort involved, just by putting 80D innards minus mirror plus EVF [e.g. G5X] into it, instead of launching yet another subpar, underspecced, lacklustre, embarassing, fun-killing piece of sh*t.

While it may not save Canon on its own, it certainly would not bankrupt them either, if it failed and only myself and 3 others on this forum would pick it up. Right? :)

because maybe they don't see the market for it?

if you go full out, canon has alot of work to do to get battery management under wraps.

80D innards by themselves and an EVF would be sub 150 shots on a LP-17 battery, as it's even 300 on a LP-6N battery.

so yeah.. little cost?

DPAF is heavy on compute power.. you have to calculate out phase difference from ~20 million AF points.

then you have if DPAF would work on a short registration distance mount - all the microlens designs I've seen from canon, none of them have been discussing DPAF sensors. which adds in it's own set of problems.

to do it all right, canon has to make an entirely different sensor which is only for mirrorless.

they also have to do it with the proper microlenses, and also with preferably with a BSI sensor to remove more of the problem of vignetting.

they also have to completely jump up and fix the inefficiencies in DiGiC that are consuming so much battery life against their peers.
 

AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
hehe, Neurocomics at work. Whenever you are out of argjuments, you start insulting and attacking the person. But we know you and your style. And let me tell you, I find it much more unpleasant than you may find my "petulant whining".

The 3 cameras I suggested, are ides or call them *demands* if you prefer. Unfortunately they are no *prediction*, since I know damn well, stupid Canon will not make them.
 

cnardo

5D3, 7D2
May 17, 2012
72
0
Santa Barbara
Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016

ahsanford said:
cnardo said:
From my vantage point, I rather have a new SL2 than a M5... The SL2 feels better in my hands and easier to operate.
Anybody out there agree? Does anyone know when we can expect a SL2? Was suppose to be this year. ???

Just curious with your SL1 vs. EOS M -- how much of that "better/easier" is due to:

  • An OVF's responsiveness
  • A chunkier grip
  • Rebel like controls and menus

In other words, the SL1 has a ton of 'SLR familiarity' going for it over the EOS M. What's the biggest of those three things you miss when using the EOS M?

- A

The OVF is just more natural after 40+ years of shooting with Canon. The chunkier grip fits my hands so much better and with a lens on the body... the balance is so much better... I use a hand grip a lot....plus a strap....so much better with the SL1 plus lens. The controls are slight bigger and more familiar as you say. I like that. One thing I do like. however, is the M3 with the 22mm Pancake lens.... great for indoor , low light and not as attention getting :)
 

AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
Canon EF-M 11-22 is king of the ultrawide hill. If it were a Fuji, it would cost north of 1200 USD. If it were a Sony it would be called Zeiss and cost north of 2000. lol.

EF-S 10-18 is optically also very good, but not equal.

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EF-M-11-22mm-F4-56-IS-STM-versus-Canon-EF-S-10-18mm-F45-56-IS-STM__1170_0_1368_0

http://kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-m/11-22mm.htm
 

ritholtz

EOS RP
Mar 25, 2014
588
14
AvTvM said:
Canon EF-M 11-22 is king of the ultrawide hill. If it were a Fuji, it would cost north of 1200 USD. If it were a Sony it would be called Zeiss and cost north of 2000. lol.

EF-S 10-18 is optically also very good, but not equal.

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EF-M-11-22mm-F4-56-IS-STM-versus-Canon-EF-S-10-18mm-F45-56-IS-STM__1170_0_1368_0

http://kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-m/11-22mm.htm
That EF-M lens is really nice. Your comparison with Zeisis and Fuji is another reason to wait patiently for Canon to deliver mirrorless 80d body. Sony can't even upgrade their crap crop kit lens with expensive a6300 release.
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
ritholtz said:
AvTvM said:
Canon EF-M 11-22 is king of the ultrawide hill. If it were a Fuji, it would cost north of 1200 USD. If it were a Sony it would be called Zeiss and cost north of 2000. lol.

EF-S 10-18 is optically also very good, but not equal.

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon-EF-M-11-22mm-F4-56-IS-STM-versus-Canon-EF-S-10-18mm-F45-56-IS-STM__1170_0_1368_0

http://kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-m/11-22mm.htm
That EF-M lens is really nice. Your comparison with Zeisis and Fuji is another reason to wait patiently for Canon to deliver mirrorless 80d body. Sony can't even upgrade their crap crop kit lens with expensive a6300 release.

expect a G7X Mark II like M5.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
AvTvM said:
While it may not save Canon on its own, it certainly would not bankrupt them either, if it failed and only myself and 3 others on this forum would pick it up. Right? :)

You realize you are making our point for us, right? Yes, Canon could make that rig, but they feel there's more profit elsewhere.

I'm just surprised how focused they are on the Rebel-ish end of things -- this will be the 5th EOS M body (right?) and they still haven't left the photography little league yet. I would have thought by the time a 5th body came out, at least one would be in that 70D/80D level of functionality by now.

- A
 

LoneRider

Profession Geek.
Oct 4, 2011
118
0
Great state of Texas
Interesting discussion.

One thing that I have yet to see is shelf space. There is only soo much shelf space Canon is going to get in the Best Buy's of the world. If they introduce another camera, which one do they pull??

As well, it would see to me, a M5 with DPAF, remote shutter and all, would convert 80D and EF[-S] lens purchases over to M5 and EF-M lens purchases.

If Canon is going to limit 5Div to protect 1DXii sales, certainly they will limit M series cameras to protect the 80D

Just my $0.02.
 

Tangent

EOS 90D
Nov 13, 2015
140
95
What I want is PDAF, a remote jack, and the double-sided lens design from the recent patent for improved sensor performance at the edges.

Also desired: a stronger onboard flash, better battery life.

I agree with what others have said that an onboard intervalometer would lessen the need for a remote switch jack. But I like shooting with a remote, and with a M setup and a travel tripod it would be good to be able to use one.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
25,584
3,918
ahsanford said:
I'm just surprised how focused they are on the Rebel-ish end of things -- this will be the 5th EOS M body (right?) and they still haven't left the photography little league yet. I would have thought by the time a 5th body came out, at least one would be in that 70D/80D level of functionality by now.

Well, since the double-A and triple-A ball games aren't popular enough to be network-televised, maybe it's just not worth Canon's effort to field a team. ;)
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
I wonder how many of the guys insisting on built in EVF have tried the detachable one. It's actually really neat as it can be tilted up 90 degrees, so you can look straight down, or anywhere in-between. Also it's in the middle of the camera in line with the lens and is very comfortable. I found the pop-up on the Sony horrible to hold and view being right off to the side of the camera. You then have the option of removing it and making the camera pocketable with the pancake lens.

The downside is that you can't use a decent flash with the EVF in place, and I have found that to be a problem occasionally. Also you have to buy the viewfinder with the M3 as a kit or it is too expensive, but when bought as a kit the Canon smokes the competition in terms of value for money.

DPAF would be great but I agree with rrpphoto; it may be the dslr flange distance based DPAF does;t work too well on the much shorter mirror less distance.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
Sporgon said:
I wonder how many of the guys insisting on built in EVF have tried the detachable one. It's actually really neat as it can be tilted up 90 degrees, so you can look straight down, or anywhere in-between.

Have not tried it, in fact I've not bought into EOS-M for three reasons, and no integral EVF is one of them. If I will use a VF 99% of the time, I don't want it to be a modular component. Further, using it consumes your hotshoe, right? Pass.

Just curious, I keep trying to find AF speed and EVF lag comparisons amongst the current crop of APS-C and m43 mirrorless rigs and can never find Canon in them (andthey often are dated or only have 2-3 models compared).

Just curious: how responsive is the AF for EOS M vs other brands, and how laggy is that EVF?

- A
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
ahsanford said:
Sporgon said:
I wonder how many of the guys insisting on built in EVF have tried the detachable one. It's actually really neat as it can be tilted up 90 degrees, so you can look straight down, or anywhere in-between.

Have not tried it, in fact I've not bought into EOS-M for three reasons, and no integral EVF is one of them. If I will use a VF 99% of the time, I don't want it to be a modular component. Further, using it consumes your hotshoe, right? Pass.

Just curious, I keep trying to find AF speed and EVF lag comparisons amongst the current crop of APS-C and m43 mirrorless rigs and can never find Canon in them (andthey often are dated or only have 2-3 models compared).

Just curious: how responsive is the AF for EOS M vs other brands, and how laggy is that EVF?

- A

For most GP uses the Canon EVF is basically lag free, but I'm sure it would begin to fail if you were shooting fast sports. But it is an EVF. It's so refreshing to look through a good dslr again !

Regarding the AF, again for GP use its pretty snappy and accurate - within the limitations of the over-sized AF area. It's not good at tracking something coming towards you fast, unless that something happens to suit the over-sized AF zone, then it can happily keep focus on a horse cantering towards you at say 15 to 20 mph.

It's actually not a bad camera for many people, but it's not the sort that Reviewers are going to enjoy testing.

Also I might add, from my point of view I think the 24 MP is too high for the sort of market this camera is aimed at, which I guess is reasonably casual shooting. I find I have to have the camera rock steady, or use a very fast shutter speed to get the IQ that I want. Then, with a good lens it's pretty good. I found the 16 MP crop cameras that I have used to be much better in that regard. But then I guess that's progress.