There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016 [CR2]
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
Canon, please stop releasing products that cannot compete in the market. Existing M series line-up cannot match what sony a6300 or Fuji X-T2/T10 can deliver. Don't waste your time in undermarket productsCanon Rumors said:
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
I would totally buy a fixed lens with a full frame 35mm! I'd love it.
Just to clarify, I would enjoy a mirrorless due to the ability to mount my other lenses. It would be a worthwhile business investment for me to have a back-up full frame camera that can mount the lenses I need to do my job if my 1D and 5D both end up stolen. I would never use any lens but a 35mm on a mirrorless for casual use, but I could justify the purchase more if it could serve as a full-time back up. There's a lot in my job I can only do with my 70-200mm, especially when police lines are far from the actual scene, so job-wise having only a 35mm wouldn't be as much of a back-up for me.
My main reason for wanting a full frame mirrorless-style camera is for casual/vacation use though.
ahsanford said:H. Jones said:
+1 (with a qualifier)
If you only need one lens -- why have a modular mount at all?
I say that because I've been arguing that Canon needs a 'batting practice' fixed lens FF mirrorless rig that lets them nail form factor / ergonomics / controls / EVF / etc. before they make the major EF-(FF Mirrorless) un-undoable decisions. Follow the path of Leica Q (28mm f/1.7) or Sony RX1 platform (35mm f/2) but with 'Canon know-how', grip, feel, menus, intuitiveness, etc.
Further, going fixed lens unlocks some sweet options: bury the lens in the mount (as it were) to save overall thickness of the rig + lens, and you can drop a leaf shutter in there for a crazy 1/2000 sync speed like Sony did.
- A
I would totally buy a fixed lens with a full frame 35mm! I'd love it.
Just to clarify, I would enjoy a mirrorless due to the ability to mount my other lenses. It would be a worthwhile business investment for me to have a back-up full frame camera that can mount the lenses I need to do my job if my 1D and 5D both end up stolen. I would never use any lens but a 35mm on a mirrorless for casual use, but I could justify the purchase more if it could serve as a full-time back up. There's a lot in my job I can only do with my 70-200mm, especially when police lines are far from the actual scene, so job-wise having only a 35mm wouldn't be as much of a back-up for me.
My main reason for wanting a full frame mirrorless-style camera is for casual/vacation use though.
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
canon can't hear you after taking mirrorless third overall in domestic marketshare over panasonic, and over shipping enough M3 and M10's into Asia to have a nearly a 60% marketshare in ILC's for the second quarter this year.
obviously canon is competing, they just see the market a little differently than you.
Hjalmarg1 said:
canon can't hear you after taking mirrorless third overall in domestic marketshare over panasonic, and over shipping enough M3 and M10's into Asia to have a nearly a 60% marketshare in ILC's for the second quarter this year.
obviously canon is competing, they just see the market a little differently than you.
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
There you go. Now you're good.
But I think you know where I'm going with this. In the mirrorless market, Canon cares less about having the most responsive, best handling, slickest feature set, fastest AF, (any) integral EVF, etc. because they'd rather dominate the low end of the market right now. And can you blame them? That's where the unit sales are.
- A
Hjalmarg1 said:
There you go. Now you're good.
But I think you know where I'm going with this. In the mirrorless market, Canon cares less about having the most responsive, best handling, slickest feature set, fastest AF, (any) integral EVF, etc. because they'd rather dominate the low end of the market right now. And can you blame them? That's where the unit sales are.
- A
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
I'm gonna butt in here. I definitely feel that the eos m is so slow to switch up settings with the limited buttons and dials. You have to rely so much on the touchscreen it's almost pointless imo. My hands gets tired soon from the awkward grip of the camera itself... although the SL1 isn't the most comfortable either: its just light. Plus, I tend to use larger and much heavier lenses than the camera itself.. I know that's probably not what it's meant for but still. and FOCUS SPEED. no comparison. period. sometimes, its so bright out that I can't really see the screen anyways. great system for <$200 (model 1) but you are getting what you pay for in terms of functionality. Stills... like still stills with focus set and turned to manual or something.. works fantastically. :
ahsanford said:
I'm gonna butt in here. I definitely feel that the eos m is so slow to switch up settings with the limited buttons and dials. You have to rely so much on the touchscreen it's almost pointless imo. My hands gets tired soon from the awkward grip of the camera itself... although the SL1 isn't the most comfortable either: its just light. Plus, I tend to use larger and much heavier lenses than the camera itself.. I know that's probably not what it's meant for but still. and FOCUS SPEED. no comparison. period. sometimes, its so bright out that I can't really see the screen anyways. great system for <$200 (model 1) but you are getting what you pay for in terms of functionality. Stills... like still stills with focus set and turned to manual or something.. works fantastically. :
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
"slightly upmarket" ... lol
stupid, Canon!
what's needed is so simple, it almost hutts: stick those 80D innards from DP-AF sensor to LP-E6N battery to full EOS firmware plus the G5X viewfinder into an M3-sized body with just a bit chunkier grip, sell it for $/€ 999, lean bak and watch as sales if EF-M lenses go through the roof and pop open vhampagne bottles every subsequent quarter, when CIPA nunbers show how Fuji and Sony APS-C sales wither away.
economics are simple. give customers the products they want and rake in the cash.
"slightly upmarket" ... lol
stupid, Canon!
what's needed is so simple, it almost hutts: stick those 80D innards from DP-AF sensor to LP-E6N battery to full EOS firmware plus the G5X viewfinder into an M3-sized body with just a bit chunkier grip, sell it for $/€ 999, lean bak and watch as sales if EF-M lenses go through the roof and pop open vhampagne bottles every subsequent quarter, when CIPA nunbers show how Fuji and Sony APS-C sales wither away.
economics are simple. give customers the products they want and rake in the cash.
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
Pardon me if this has already been answered, by why don't Canon make a proper mirrorless body? Like others, i would love to have a canon mirrorless as a backup to my 5D..but there is no option available. Why can't they manufacture a real competing mirrorless camera? Having a 6d(2) as a backup is just so boring when you already shoot with a 5.
Pardon me if this has already been answered, by why don't Canon make a proper mirrorless body? Like others, i would love to have a canon mirrorless as a backup to my 5D..but there is no option available. Why can't they manufacture a real competing mirrorless camera? Having a 6d(2) as a backup is just so boring when you already shoot with a 5.
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
sorry mate, but "you are the ONLY ONE who wants a full-featured, compact mirrorless camera ... so Canon will NOT build one for you" ... or so the CanonFanBoy-Neuroconomists say. :
aa_angus said:
sorry mate, but "you are the ONLY ONE who wants a full-featured, compact mirrorless camera ... so Canon will NOT build one for you" ... or so the CanonFanBoy-Neuroconomists say. :
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
You wouldn't be tempted by a fully featured, full frame canon mirrorless?
AvTvM said:aa_angus said:
sorry mate, but "you are the ONLY ONE who wants a full-featured, compact mirrorless camera ... so Canon will NOT build one for you" ... or so the CanonFanBoy-Neuroconomists say. :
You wouldn't be tempted by a fully featured, full frame canon mirrorless?
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
Because the prosumer market is much smaller than the consumer market. This is also true for DSLRs but there Canon has the dominant market position, decades of engineering and marketing experience, established manufacturing, logistics, and marketing pipelines... Yes, much of that is transferrable to mirrorless, but coming up with a major new product line in a not-very-large and very competitive market is not exactly an immediately persuasive value proposition.
FWIW, my educated guesstimate is that for every step upwards on the product ladder your target market shrinks by approximately an order of magnitude.
aa_angus said:
Because the prosumer market is much smaller than the consumer market. This is also true for DSLRs but there Canon has the dominant market position, decades of engineering and marketing experience, established manufacturing, logistics, and marketing pipelines... Yes, much of that is transferrable to mirrorless, but coming up with a major new product line in a not-very-large and very competitive market is not exactly an immediately persuasive value proposition.
FWIW, my educated guesstimate is that for every step upwards on the product ladder your target market shrinks by approximately an order of magnitude.
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
Thanks.
From a broader perspective, Sony was badly affected by the Kyushu earthquake in Apr 2016. Their shipment numbers in the second and third quarters (Apr-Sep 2-16) will be affected. That is also why Canon market share is able to jump from ~ 40 to 60% percent between 1st and 2nd quarter this year. It is very unfortunate but true.
rrcphoto said:
Thanks.
From a broader perspective, Sony was badly affected by the Kyushu earthquake in Apr 2016. Their shipment numbers in the second and third quarters (Apr-Sep 2-16) will be affected. That is also why Canon market share is able to jump from ~ 40 to 60% percent between 1st and 2nd quarter this year. It is very unfortunate but true.
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Homophone Corner
Queue the Canon economics experts who can explain why it all made perfect financial sense.
[/quote]
Now queue all the economics experts that don't understand the basic principles of business or economics. Queue especially those who would dare to call profit evil or excessive. :
[/quote]
I think you may mean 'cue'.
Queue the Canon economics experts who can explain why it all made perfect financial sense.
[/quote]
Now queue all the economics experts that don't understand the basic principles of business or economics. Queue especially those who would dare to call profit evil or excessive. :
[/quote]
I think you may mean 'cue'.
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
Me? I am more than tempted! In fact I am the ONLY OTHER person on earth - according to CanonFanBoy Neuronomics - who would be interested in and BUY one or all of the following products, if stupid Canon would only make and sell 'em ...
1. Canon EOS M5 [APS_C mirrorless ILC]
with functionality+capabilities exactly like 80D minus mirror, plus built-in EVF, size similar to M3, priced at USD/€ 1000
2. Canon EOS X1 [FF mirrorless ILC]
capabilities exactly like 5D IV minus mirror, sized like Sony A7/R II, priced not higher than equivalent Sony A# model ...
plus a lineup of optically very good, yet affordable and "as compact as possible" native lenses ... positioned exactly like EF-M lenses, only for FF image circle.
3. Canon "RX1" [FF compact with 3x zoom]
Ultra-compact mirrorless FF cam with 5D4 DP-AF sensor and an excellent Canon 24-70mm/2.8 L IS blue-goo zoom up front (no lens mount), priced at USD/€ 2000
I could also see "video-enhanced" variations for each of these with highest-end 4k 120fps 4:4:4 video, zebras, stripes, spots, mic jacks all over, S-log, C-log ... and 100 other shenanigans ... at a modest 100% surcharge. ;D
Personally I would take the "stills-enhanced" version.
But, stupid Canon does not make any of these ...yet. By the time they finally do, I will be happily using a Sony A9 + Canon EF glass.
Stupid, Canon!
aa_angus said:
Me? I am more than tempted! In fact I am the ONLY OTHER person on earth - according to CanonFanBoy Neuronomics - who would be interested in and BUY one or all of the following products, if stupid Canon would only make and sell 'em ...
1. Canon EOS M5 [APS_C mirrorless ILC]
with functionality+capabilities exactly like 80D minus mirror, plus built-in EVF, size similar to M3, priced at USD/€ 1000
2. Canon EOS X1 [FF mirrorless ILC]
capabilities exactly like 5D IV minus mirror, sized like Sony A7/R II, priced not higher than equivalent Sony A# model ...
plus a lineup of optically very good, yet affordable and "as compact as possible" native lenses ... positioned exactly like EF-M lenses, only for FF image circle.
3. Canon "RX1" [FF compact with 3x zoom]
Ultra-compact mirrorless FF cam with 5D4 DP-AF sensor and an excellent Canon 24-70mm/2.8 L IS blue-goo zoom up front (no lens mount), priced at USD/€ 2000
I could also see "video-enhanced" variations for each of these with highest-end 4k 120fps 4:4:4 video, zebras, stripes, spots, mic jacks all over, S-log, C-log ... and 100 other shenanigans ... at a modest 100% surcharge. ;D
Personally I would take the "stills-enhanced" version.
But, stupid Canon does not make any of these ...yet. By the time they finally do, I will be happily using a Sony A9 + Canon EF glass.
Stupid, Canon!
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Re: Homophone Corner
Now cue all the economics experts that don't understand the basic principles of business or economics. Cue especially those who would dare to call profit evil or excessive. :
[/quote]
I think you may mean 'cue'.
[/quote]
You are correct. Thank you.
mustafa said:
Now cue all the economics experts that don't understand the basic principles of business or economics. Cue especially those who would dare to call profit evil or excessive. :
[/quote]
I think you may mean 'cue'.
[/quote]
You are correct. Thank you.
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
Bingo!
ahsanford said:Hjalmarg1 said:
There you go. Now you're good.
But I think you know where I'm going with this. In the mirrorless market, Canon cares less about having the most responsive, best handling, slickest feature set, fastest AF, (any) integral EVF, etc. because they'd rather dominate the low end of the market right now. And can you blame them? That's where the unit sales are.
- A
Bingo!
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Re: There Will Be a New EOS M Camera Coming in 2016
Excuse me miss, your fetish is showing. You are a very smart guy AvTvM. I just wish you would take your genius and make the product you speak of yourself. Then you wouldn't have to wait for "Stupid Canon".
I've got a challenge for you: When you can source the raw materials and manufacture every part of a pencil that will compete on the mass market with Ticonderoga I'll admit that Canon is stupid and send you all my gear.
Go find the rubber trees and process it into the material to make the erasers, develop the paint, discover how to make the metal that holds the eraser, go mine the graphite, do all these things and then manufacture a competitive pencil for the mass market. Don't forget top develop the packaging and the inks to print upon it. Don't forget to manufacture the machines to do the pencil manufacturing.
However, I think the exercise will prove that you cannot even do that. Men of ability are mostly envied and attacked by men who just can't compete... physically or intellectually.
You name a camera you want and even think you know what it should sell for to make a profit. Problem is, you know absolutely nothing about manufacturing a pencil (You could never do it. Not in your whole lifetime), much less a camera.
Rake in the cash? How much cash do you rake in wise one? Not from somebody else's ideas and products... but from what you've developed yourself. Nothing.
AvTvM said:
Excuse me miss, your fetish is showing.
You are a very smart guy AvTvM. I just wish you would take your genius and make the product you speak of yourself. Then you wouldn't have to wait for "Stupid Canon".I've got a challenge for you: When you can source the raw materials and manufacture every part of a pencil that will compete on the mass market with Ticonderoga I'll admit that Canon is stupid and send you all my gear.
Go find the rubber trees and process it into the material to make the erasers, develop the paint, discover how to make the metal that holds the eraser, go mine the graphite, do all these things and then manufacture a competitive pencil for the mass market. Don't forget top develop the packaging and the inks to print upon it. Don't forget to manufacture the machines to do the pencil manufacturing.
However, I think the exercise will prove that you cannot even do that. Men of ability are mostly envied and attacked by men who just can't compete... physically or intellectually.
You name a camera you want and even think you know what it should sell for to make a profit. Problem is, you know absolutely nothing about manufacturing a pencil (You could never do it. Not in your whole lifetime), much less a camera.
Rake in the cash? How much cash do you rake in wise one? Not from somebody else's ideas and products... but from what you've developed yourself. Nothing.
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