Tips on deterring forcible equipment theft while carrying camera?

[Eldar]

The fact is this: The more guns there are in the hands of law abiding citizens, the less crime there is.

Sorry, but the fact is that you don't know what the heck you're talking about. Is Kellyanne checking your facts for you?

An example; We have much (as in MUCH) stricter weapon control here in Norway, than you in the US. However, since we are a nation of hunters, we have lots of hunting rifles (we are actually in 11th place globally on weapon density), but you have to go through special training and screening to get one. Hand guns, assault rifles etc. are banned and the control with ammunition and use is significant.

The rate of people getting killed in the US is 50, FIFTY, times higher in the US, compared to what we have. But, of course, that has absolutely nothing to do with your liberal weapon legislation :

But how would you explain Mexico, Brazil and South Africa which are near the top of the list of murders per capita. All of which have strict gun laws that do not permit or severely limit ownership and carry.

I think all you can derive from the "my country has fewer" discussion is some countries have a higher murder rate than others.

Mexico, Brazil and South Africa have one thing in common; A massive market for illegal weapons. If you want a weapon, it takes you less than a day to get one. The comparison is totally irrelevant.

Are you saying that Americans (in general) are more murderous than Norwegians?? I don´t believe so. However, you elected Donald Trump for president, so you might be suicidal though

 

[takesome1]

The fact is this: The more guns there are in the hands of law abiding citizens, the less crime there is.

Sorry, but the fact is that you don't know what the heck you're talking about. Is Kellyanne checking your facts for you?

An example; We have much (as in MUCH) stricter weapon control here in Norway, than you in the US. However, since we are a nation of hunters, we have lots of hunting rifles (we are actually in 11th place globally on weapon density), but you have to go through special training and screening to get one. Hand guns, assault rifles etc. are banned and the control with ammunition and use is significant.

The rate of people getting killed in the US is 50, FIFTY, times higher in the US, compared to what we have. But, of course, that has absolutely nothing to do with your liberal weapon legislation :

But how would you explain Mexico, Brazil and South Africa which are near the top of the list of murders per capita. All of which have strict gun laws that do not permit or severely limit ownership and carry.

I think all you can derive from the "my country has fewer" discussion is some countries have a higher murder rate than others.

Mexico, Brazil and South Africa have one thing in common; A massive market for illegal weapons. If you want a weapon, it takes you less than a day to get one. The comparison is totally irrelevant.

Are you saying that Americans (in general) are more murderous than Norwegians?? I don´t believe so. However, you elected Donald Trump for president, so you might be suicidal though

The comparison is not irrelevant.

It is easy to blame the guns, in reality it is the political, social, ethnic or economic conditions in those countries that drive the violence.

 

[Boyer U. Klum-Cey]

An actual Think Tank may be in my future, eh?

Found one!

That has got to be worth a ton or two of CPS points.

 

[Loswr]

Are you saying that Americans (in general) are more murderous than Norwegians?? I don´t believe so. However, you elected Donald Trump for president, so you might be suicidal though

How dare you criticize our president elect?!?

Just out of curiousity, and totally unrelated to the topic at hand, what's the biopharma job sector in Norway like? And is it easy to immigrate there? What are the chances I could land a job and move there by tomorrow? Not that tomorrow has any special political significance, or anything...I'm just asking.

 

[Eldar]

The fact is this: The more guns there are in the hands of law abiding citizens, the less crime there is.

Sorry, but the fact is that you don't know what the heck you're talking about. Is Kellyanne checking your facts for you?

An example; We have much (as in MUCH) stricter weapon control here in Norway, than you in the US. However, since we are a nation of hunters, we have lots of hunting rifles (we are actually in 11th place globally on weapon density), but you have to go through special training and screening to get one. Hand guns, assault rifles etc. are banned and the control with ammunition and use is significant.

The rate of people getting killed in the US is 50, FIFTY, times higher in the US, compared to what we have. But, of course, that has absolutely nothing to do with your liberal weapon legislation :

But how would you explain Mexico, Brazil and South Africa which are near the top of the list of murders per capita. All of which have strict gun laws that do not permit or severely limit ownership and carry.

I think all you can derive from the "my country has fewer" discussion is some countries have a higher murder rate than others.

Mexico, Brazil and South Africa have one thing in common; A massive market for illegal weapons. If you want a weapon, it takes you less than a day to get one. The comparison is totally irrelevant.

Are you saying that Americans (in general) are more murderous than Norwegians?? I don´t believe so. However, you elected Donald Trump for president, so you might be suicidal though

The comparison is not irrelevant.

It is easy to blame the guns, in reality it is the political, social, ethnic or economic conditions in those countries that drive the violence.

I agree. Norway is quite different, even though we have a much more varied political, social and ethnic population than many believe. We do however have very little poverty.

A more relevant comparison would be US vs. UK. If you remove the upper percent of the filthy rich in each country, the average UK person is poorer than the average US person. Because of the British Empire (and all that), plus the EU (which they are now leaving), they have a very complex population, coming from all over the globe and with all the problems that follows. They have much stricter weapon laws (pretty similar to the Norwegians) and the statistics says that the chances of being shot to death in the UK is 0.236/million, whereas the US number is 32.57/million.

But of course, it has nothing to do with the availability of weapons ...

 

[Eldar]

Are you saying that Americans (in general) are more murderous than Norwegians?? I don´t believe so. However, you elected Donald Trump for president, so you might be suicidal though

How dare you criticize our president elect?!?

Just out of curiousity, and totally unrelated to the topic at hand, what's the biopharma job sector in Norway like? And is it easy to immigrate there? What are the chances I could land a job and move there by tomorrow? Not that tomorrow has any special political significance, or anything...I'm just asking.

He he, I think you´d find the market for biopharma qualifications to be quite good and your work permit should be a mere formality

 

[Ozarker]

How about pepper spray
(Canadian talking here)

In the US just like a firearm you would need to know the laws where you are at.
A concealed pepper spray or concealed firearm will not deter a would be thief. He wouldn't know you had either until he actually confronts you.
While using pepper spray or the Kung Fu you learned from your local master, both run the risk of escalating the situation. The thief just wanted your camera and nothing else, you karate chop him in the head and now he wants to punch you back.

Like the saying, you brought a knife to a gunfight? You can change the word knife to , karate chop or pepper spray.

Hehehe... forgetting the fact that the thief has already escalated the situation and we are not mind readers who can ascertain his ultimate intent. You don't know he only wants the camera... especially in the case of females being attacked. Should women in danger of being attacked or raped be told to just lay there and take it? Give the attacker what he wants? Nice. Is that what you would tell your wife or daughter? Or would you rather they be trained to defend themselves with a handgun? That is the choice. Just take whatever the attacker wants to do with you, or fight back.

The law requires only that the gun owner believe his or her life to be in danger or under threat of grave physical harm.

The fact that the thief cannot know, either, whether or not his victim is armed deters crime. He's playing a guessing game.

 

[ethanz]

Are you saying that Americans (in general) are more murderous than Norwegians?? I don´t believe so. However, you elected Donald Trump for president, so you might be suicidal though

How dare you criticize our president elect?!?

Just out of curiousity, and totally unrelated to the topic at hand, what's the biopharma job sector in Norway like? And is it easy to immigrate there? What are the chances I could land a job and move there by tomorrow? Not that tomorrow has any special political significance, or anything...I'm just asking.

He he, I think you´d find the market for biopharma qualifications to be quite good and your work permit should be a mere formality

Eldar might even let you stay at his place for a few days while you look for a house.

 

[Mikehit]

The fact that the thief cannot know, either, whether or not his victim is armed deters crime. He's playing a guessing game.

There is commonly quoted 'fact' by proponents of the death penalty that the death penalty deters murderers.
But a few years ago a detailed study interviewing people on death row found that not one of the people awaiting execution at any point thought 'I will not do this because I may be put to death'. I suspect other crimes are very much the same - they commit the robbery without really thinking 'that person may ave a gun and may shoot me'. It is not part of their equation. If anything it just entices the person planning the crime to carry a gun themselves.

Guns are most often carried by people untrained in their use - and by 'trained' I don't just mean how to point it a pull the trigger, but trained also in assessing and reacting to the situation and maintaining calm. And as pointed out in that article I posted the link for, a big problem is that it gives the holder a feeling of invulnerability and it causes a massive and rapid escalation in tension. That is the danger with guns and why I would advocate a photographer no NOT carry one.
It is camera gear we are talking about here. Not the rape and murder of family members. Even experienced police officers are severely traumatised after shooting someone and they are people for whom this is a real risk

 

[Mikehit]

Hehehe... forgetting the fact that the thief has already escalated the situation and we are not mind readers who can ascertain his ultimate intent. You don't know he only wants the camera... especially in the case of females being attacked. Should women in danger of being attacked or raped be told to just lay there and take it? Give the attacker what he wants? Nice. Is that what you would tell your wife or daughter? Or would you rather they be trained to defend themselves with a handgun? That is the choice. Just take whatever the attacker wants to do with you, or fight back.

The law requires only that the gun owner believe his or her life to be in danger or under threat of grave physical harm.

The fact that the thief cannot know, either, whether or not his victim is armed deters crime. He's playing a guessing game.

On a thread about protecting camera gear, let's justify the carrying a gun by escalating the issue to rape and murder.
If rape and murder are an issue, then the camera gear is irrelevant and I presume you would have a gun with you at all times anyway. In which case reference to carrying a gun is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[kirispupis]

How about pepper spray
(Canadian talking here)

In the US just like a firearm you would need to know the laws where you are at.
A concealed pepper spray or concealed firearm will not deter a would be thief. He wouldn't know you had either until he actually confronts you.
While using pepper spray or the Kung Fu you learned from your local master, both run the risk of escalating the situation. The thief just wanted your camera and nothing else, you karate chop him in the head and now he wants to punch you back.

Like the saying, you brought a knife to a gunfight? You can change the word knife to , karate chop or pepper spray.

Hehehe... forgetting the fact that the thief has already escalated the situation and we are not mind readers who can ascertain his ultimate intent. You don't know he only wants the camera... especially in the case of females being attacked. Should women in danger of being attacked or raped be told to just lay there and take it? Give the attacker what he wants? Nice. Is that what you would tell your wife or daughter? Or would you rather they be trained to defend themselves with a handgun? That is the choice. Just take whatever the attacker wants to do with you, or fight back.

The law requires only that the gun owner believe his or her life to be in danger or under threat of grave physical harm.

The fact that the thief cannot know, either, whether or not his victim is armed deters crime. He's playing a guessing game.

Your argument is very similar to that of a terrorist. There is no peaceful solution to a problem - only violence. The NRA (which should be considered a terrorist organization) gives a very similar argument - unless you have a gun, you will die.

The problem is, it's completely untrue. The overwhelming majority of us have never been, nor will ever be, in a situation that remotely called for a weapon because we're intelligent human beings who know how to exercise common sense in avoiding trouble.

Unfortunately, due to an amendment to the Constitution that (like the electoral college) was designed to uphold slavery, the sane majority has to put up with this dribble that allows random people at any moment to determine who should die. That is why people are murdered here at a far greater rate than in any stable country. That's why aggravated assault, rape, and robbery occur at a higher rate in the US than in any other 1st world country.

I know that this should be a discussion about camera equipment, but it really roils be every time my kids have to go through an active shooter drill because we live in a country held in terror by a small group of people who want to compensate for their shortcomings with guns and more guns.

 

[Eldar]

Are you saying that Americans (in general) are more murderous than Norwegians?? I don´t believe so. However, you elected Donald Trump for president, so you might be suicidal though

How dare you criticize our president elect?!?

Just out of curiousity, and totally unrelated to the topic at hand, what's the biopharma job sector in Norway like? And is it easy to immigrate there? What are the chances I could land a job and move there by tomorrow? Not that tomorrow has any special political significance, or anything...I'm just asking.

He he, I think you´d find the market for biopharma qualifications to be quite good and your work permit should be a mere formality

Eldar might even let you stay at his place for a few days while you look for a house.

Indeed, you´re most welcome

 

[Loswr]

Are you saying that Americans (in general) are more murderous than Norwegians?? I don´t believe so. However, you elected Donald Trump for president, so you might be suicidal though

How dare you criticize our president elect?!?

Just out of curiousity, and totally unrelated to the topic at hand, what's the biopharma job sector in Norway like? And is it easy to immigrate there? What are the chances I could land a job and move there by tomorrow? Not that tomorrow has any special political significance, or anything...I'm just asking.

He he, I think you´d find the market for biopharma qualifications to be quite good and your work permit should be a mere formality

Eldar might even let you stay at his place for a few days while you look for a house.

Indeed, you´re most welcome

Is 1,461 days 'a few'? ;D The first 'X' goes on the calendar tomorrow…

 

[Eldar]

Are you saying that Americans (in general) are more murderous than Norwegians?? I don´t believe so. However, you elected Donald Trump for president, so you might be suicidal though

How dare you criticize our president elect?!?

Just out of curiousity, and totally unrelated to the topic at hand, what's the biopharma job sector in Norway like? And is it easy to immigrate there? What are the chances I could land a job and move there by tomorrow? Not that tomorrow has any special political significance, or anything...I'm just asking.

He he, I think you´d find the market for biopharma qualifications to be quite good and your work permit should be a mere formality

Eldar might even let you stay at his place for a few days while you look for a house.

Indeed, you´re most welcome

Is 1,461 days 'a few'? ;D The first 'X' goes on the calendar tomorrow…

You can always apply for political asylum. You´d get a place to stay, a daily allowance, free language training and a bunch of other benefits. If you behave, they might even throw in a free education in something of your choosing. Just make sure you don´t bring any hand guns or assault rifles

 

[Loswr]

Just make sure you don´t bring any hand guns or assault rifles

I suppose I'd have to leave the suitcase full of NRA promotional materials behind, too?

 

[kphoto99]

Are you saying that Americans (in general) are more murderous than Norwegians?? I don´t believe so. However, you elected Donald Trump for president, so you might be suicidal though

How dare you criticize our president elect?!?

Just out of curiousity, and totally unrelated to the topic at hand, what's the biopharma job sector in Norway like? And is it easy to immigrate there? What are the chances I could land a job and move there by tomorrow? Not that tomorrow has any special political significance, or anything...I'm just asking.

He he, I think you´d find the market for biopharma qualifications to be quite good and your work permit should be a mere formality

Eldar might even let you stay at his place for a few days while you look for a house.

Indeed, you´re most welcome

Is 1,461 days 'a few'? ;D The first 'X' goes on the calendar tomorrow…

Oh, an optimist, it is more likely to be 2922 days, remember W was re-elected ;-)

 

[takesome1]

Just make sure you don´t bring any hand guns or assault rifles

I suppose I'd have to leave the suitcase full of NRA promotional materials behind, too?

In the US the death rate is 10.54 per 100,000 population and 112.6 guns per 100 people....

You could move to Venezuelu where the death rate is 59.4 per 100,000 people and 10.7 guns per 100 people.... (this could mean that Venezuelans are much better shots)

or you could move a couple hundred kilometers north to where the death rate is 1.97 per 1000,000 people and there are 40.8 guns per 100 people...

or you could move to Hong Kong, where the rate is 0.03 per 100,000 people and hang around with Kai

How is this possible, it is ileagal for private citizens to buy guns in Venezuela.

 

[lion rock]

You can liquidate you assets in the US and move to HK., any buy an apartment with nearly all your money. The apartment is a grand 500 square feet or less!
No thanks!
Visiting is nice; living there, I'll pass.
-r

 

[Fatalv]

How about pepper spray
(Canadian talking here)

In the US just like a firearm you would need to know the laws where you are at.
A concealed pepper spray or concealed firearm will not deter a would be thief. He wouldn't know you had either until he actually confronts you.
While using pepper spray or the Kung Fu you learned from your local master, both run the risk of escalating the situation. The thief just wanted your camera and nothing else, you karate chop him in the head and now he wants to punch you back.

Like the saying, you brought a knife to a gunfight? You can change the word knife to , karate chop or pepper spray.

Hehehe... forgetting the fact that the thief has already escalated the situation and we are not mind readers who can ascertain his ultimate intent. You don't know he only wants the camera... especially in the case of females being attacked. Should women in danger of being attacked or raped be told to just lay there and take it? Give the attacker what he wants? Nice. Is that what you would tell your wife or daughter? Or would you rather they be trained to defend themselves with a handgun? That is the choice. Just take whatever the attacker wants to do with you, or fight back.

The law requires only that the gun owner believe his or her life to be in danger or under threat of grave physical harm.

The fact that the thief cannot know, either, whether or not his victim is armed deters crime. He's playing a guessing game.

Your argument is very similar to that of a terrorist. There is no peaceful solution to a problem - only violence. The NRA (which should be considered a terrorist organization) gives a very similar argument - unless you have a gun, you will die.

The problem is, it's completely untrue. The overwhelming majority of us have never been, nor will ever be, in a situation that remotely called for a weapon because we're intelligent human beings who know how to exercise common sense in avoiding trouble.

Unfortunately, due to an amendment to the Constitution that (like the electoral college) was designed to uphold slavery, the sane majority has to put up with this dribble that allows random people at any moment to determine who should die. That is why people are murdered here at a far greater rate than in any stable country. That's why aggravated assault, rape, and robbery occur at a higher rate in the US than in any other 1st world country.

I know that this should be a discussion about camera equipment, but it really roils be every time my kids have to go through an active shooter drill because we live in a country held in terror by a small group of people who want to compensate for their shortcomings with guns and more guns.

I'm glad your 'intelligence' grants you the clairvoyance to foresee all troubling situations and avoid them. We weren't all gifted with your abilities : Likewise it drives me nuts when a small group of people want to compensate for their lack of understanding of firearms and the second amendment by endlessly complaining about them and calling gun owners insane.

The vast majority of "assault, rape, and robbery" that you attribute to firearms are perpetrated by individuals who don't obtain them legally to begin with. So restricting firearms does nothing to stop that from happening.

Honestly though, if you feel you are actively 'held in terror' in this country, why are you here? We've heard just in this thread of so many 'better' places with their gun laws. Maybe one of them wouldn't be as terrifying? It's an honest question. I know I would never want to live anywhere where I felt afraid or unsafe.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

Wow. I just kind of forgot about this thread once it was clear that there weren't any really solid ideas for preventing theft that I wasn't already aware of. Now I come back to this.

As the person who actually got mugged, let me say this about guns... I am sooooo glad that I did not have a gun on me when this happened. The attackers were so quick and had the jump on me to such an extent that if I did have a gun, I have no doubt that they would have gotten it from me. As it stands, they came up behind me, and the first signal that I knew they were there was them cracking me in the back of the head with their gun. I went down from this, and by the time I got turned around to look at them, all I saw was their gun pointed at my face, and they immediately grabbed my cash, phone, and were gone just as quickly.

And I do own a gun and a permit to carry it. The only time I've done so was about a year ago when I went for a hike by myself in the middle of winter in the wilderness. Otherwise, really, I don't want that hassle and responsibility. And like I said, it would have made this particular situation so much worse. You can argue that I should have been paying better attention. But that's the thing, it was in a place that I felt was generally safe and didn't feel like I had to watch out for that kind of thing. I guess that's why they chose to do it when and where they did. But yeah, long story short, I'm just happy I didn't have a gun with me, because there was no chance to use it, and they would have gotten it, and then they would have had two guns, one of which I would have been sure worked.

Oh, and as long as we're going to go there, Donald Trump is a narcissist and an awful human being.