Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]

[AvTvM]

Oh, Goodie! Another mirrorless thread where we will get 10 to 20 pages of people repeating the same comments they have written a dozen times before! Yay!

But this time, we also get to read all sorts of crazy ideas of what a "really nice solution" is.

true. lol

 

[Tangent]

The same source has also told us that Canon has a “a really nice solution for EF lenses on the full frame mirrorless body”

Speculation: an interlocking system in which the EF lens mounts at the correct distance but a FF-EFM lens has a tab that allows the lens to scooch in a little more to mount at the mirrorless distance. No adapters.

 

[BillB]

If the new camera is not a native EF mount then it is a problem for owners of EF lenses. Is it that hard to understand?

what problem? There is absolutely no problem, as long as EF glass can continued to be used on new mirrorless system ... a decent Canon "adapter" is definitely no problem, but a simple, cheap and effective solution to ensuring backwards compatibility for legacy EF glass.

We know that you don't have a problem with an adapter to use EF lenses, as you kept reminding us. (Your main problem seems to be that nobody is showing any interest in making the camera and lenses of your dreams.) Not sure that the Canon Marketing people feel the same way or adapters for EF lenses, or Lensrental either, for that matter. Lensrental does not recommend adapters for professional use (where there are real clients who want real deliverables.). I know that you think all problems will go away because this adapter would be a first party adapter completely within the Canon system, rather than a third party adapter a la Sony. Still, Canon will have to convince people that they want to buy into a mirrorless system that requires them to use adapters to use their EF lenses.

 

[lightthief]

Could it be a 6D/5D size body with the EF flange distance and a sensor that can be moved/bended inside to reduce the flange distance.
Could it help to develop better/small/lighter lenses when every lens could have it's own flange distance?

 

[nchoh]

So pretty much my prediction was correct - a new mount.

I was also predicting a camera somewhere between the 5D and 6D capabilities. Looking at the rumor, a 5D level camera would make sense as the users who use 5D are more likely to but the new camera and lenses. The 2 obvious groups are wedding/portait using the new lenses and sports/wildlife using an adapter with EF lenses.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

It's kind of like NASA stacking the Saturn V stages. The use of adapters will allow a wider variety of lenses to mount.
Eventually, I know somebody will try using a Sony booster.

Canon EOS M5 Canon 300L f2.8 Canon 2X Converter © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

 

[rrcphoto]

So pretty much my prediction was correct - a new mount.

I was also predicting a camera somewhere between the 5D and 6D capabilities. Looking at the rumor, a 5D level camera would make sense as the users who use 5D are more likely to but the new camera and lenses. The 2 obvious groups are wedding/portait using the new lenses and sports/wildlife using an adapter with EF lenses.

not exactly a hard one, you had two choices, a new mount or an existing one.

 

[jsavage21]

If Canon does not release a full frame professional mirrorless on par with their 5DMK4 or 1DXII that will natively mount EF lenses without an adapter, they may continue to slide further into a hole that will be incredibly difficult to pull out of. Many professionals including myself, have switched over to Fujifilm, Sony and Olympus exclusively. This is not a dig on Canon, but the reality of the industry. Professional and non professionals alike are moving towards better and more relevant technology and how well Canon and Nikon can accurately perceive this is anyone's guess. I shot Canon professionally for 20 years and if they would have had a full frame mirrorless, I would have stayed with them.

 

[nchoh]

So pretty much my prediction was correct - a new mount.

I was also predicting a camera somewhere between the 5D and 6D capabilities. Looking at the rumor, a 5D level camera would make sense as the users who use 5D are more likely to but the new camera and lenses. The 2 obvious groups are wedding/portait using the new lenses and sports/wildlife using an adapter with EF lenses.

not exactly a hard one, you had two choices, a new mount or an existing one.

Nope, but most of the posters were of the opinion that it made no sense for Canon to go with a new mount!

 

[Mikehit]

So pretty much my prediction was correct - a new mount.

I was also predicting a camera somewhere between the 5D and 6D capabilities. Looking at the rumor, a 5D level camera would make sense as the users who use 5D are more likely to but the new camera and lenses. The 2 obvious groups are wedding/portait using the new lenses and sports/wildlife using an adapter with EF lenses.

not exactly a hard one, you had two choices, a new mount or an existing one.

Nope, but most of the posters were of the opinion that it made no sense for Canon to go with a new mount!

I am not sure anyone said it would make no sense - the more sane said there were arguments either way and there was probably more in favour of native EF to avoid using an adapter.
And in “a really nice solution for EF lenses on the full frame mirrorless body” it seems possible that it is not an adapter-driven solution. And I bet you did not predict that.

 

[jolyonralph]

And in “a really nice solution for EF lenses on the full frame mirrorless body” it seems possible that it is not an adapter-driven solution. And I bet you did not predict that.

*Waves hands*

I predicted this I said that Canon could do a body using the EF-M mount and then have some kind of grip or other attachment that screws onto the bottom & front securely to convert it to EF mount.

SO then you have a choice. simple adaptor if you're switching between lens types, or a fully secured (and weather sealed) mount replacement that puts a semi-permanent EF mount on the body (and probably adds a 2nd battery slot as part of the deal)

 

[jolyonralph]

Nope, but most of the posters were of the opinion that it made no sense for Canon to go with a new mount!

Well, what makes sense for Canon is selling you a camera that you need to also buy new lenses for I think the posters were of the opinion that they don't want a new mount personally because they don't want to buy new lenses.

 

[nchoh]

Nope, but most of the posters were of the opinion that it made no sense for Canon to go with a new mount!

Well, what makes sense for Canon is selling you a camera that you need to also buy new lenses for I think the posters were of the opinion that they don't want a new mount personally because they don't want to buy new lenses.

Just for the fun of it, this is what I think will happen.

Canon will release the FF mirrorless with a new mount. Why? Because Canon works on segmentation. This makes sense on many levels;

They will deprecate the EF-S mount- they will stop developing EF-S lenses and they will only continue the 7D, Rebel, SL lines if it makes sense. Reason? EF-M is the new APS-C representative.

The new mount - let's call it EF-X here - will co-exist with the EF. Canon will initially focus on enthusiasts, fashion and wedding photographers, where the photographer benefits the most from being able to see what the picture is going to look like without chimping.
Professionals who use the 1DX will be expected to stay there. Those who want to use the new camera, for greater FPS will have to use the adapter. Likely lenses for the new camera will be 24-70, 50 and 85mm. 70-200 will come later.

I don't think that they intend to develop a new sensor. They will use either the 5D or 5DSR sensor.

 

[AvTvM]

Nope, but most of the posters were of the opinion that it made no sense for Canon to go with a new mount!

exactly. it was you and me. In this forum. Out in the real world, not inhabited by Canon apologists, it was clear all the way.

 

[Mikehit]

Nope, but most of the posters were of the opinion that it made no sense for Canon to go with a new mount!

Well, what makes sense for Canon is selling you a camera that you need to also buy new lenses for I think the posters were of the opinion that they don't want a new mount personally because they don't want to buy new lenses.

Pretty accurate. But the strengthening argument is that there are tens of thousands of photographers in the same boat so you would be hacking off a majority of your customers. Not a good move.
As has been said before they pissed people off moving from FD to EF mounts but people saw the benefits because of a fundamental change in architecture and functionality (principally autofocus). Nikon tried to keep things back-compatible but ended up with a confusing mess of lenses that took them years to get out of and my guess is Canon have heeded that lesson.

Mirrorless offers no such fundamental change in direction. Distinct advantages, yes, but not much else and those advantages will not be appreciated by everyone. So lots of people will ask why they are being asked to refit their lens collection. So if Canon have genuinely found a modular type of approach it really will be the best of both worlds - but rumours of problems developing EF compatible mirrorless has been going on since late 2015 which suggests it is a really big issue. I just hope the solution does not end up being a clusterf**k of halfway technology.

 

[Mikehit]

Professionals who use the 1DX will be expected to stay there. Those who want to use the new camera, for greater FPS will have to use the adapter.

There it is - you predicted an adapter. Hardly a "really nice solution".
Are you related to HarryFilm?

 

[dak723]

Nope, but most of the posters were of the opinion that it made no sense for Canon to go with a new mount!

Well, what makes sense for Canon is selling you a camera that you need to also buy new lenses for I think the posters were of the opinion that they don't want a new mount personally because they don't want to buy new lenses.

Only time will tell if going to a new mount will be a successful strategy. There will be some photographers who would certainly buy a Canon if they are already invested in EF lenses who will now be less likely to. If someone wants or needs a new mirrorless camera AND new lenses, then they may consider Sony or Nikon if they think those cameras are better. For some, they may decide that they are essentially starting from scratch, so now it is an even playing field. It seems quite likely that many folks (especially the "tech" oriented and those that desire innovation) would prefer a Sony camera. Well, Sony will now have the advantage of not only having popular FF cameras, but will also have a bigger mirrorless lens lineup. If I were Sony, and found out that Canon will be going to a new mount, I would be jumping for joy. I would now be in the driver's seat as far as FF mirrorless is concerned. Unless...that new mount will have to have an easy and extremely secure way for users to use their EF lenses. That is my opinion anyway.

If they get a lot of users to buy the new cameras plus new lenses, then the strategy pays off. If a lot of folks decide now is the time to switch, then Canon will regret their decision to go with a new mount provided they don't come up with a great solution for users to use their EF lenses.

 

[jolyonralph]

As has been said before they pissed people off moving from FD to EF mounts but people saw the benefits because of a fundamental change in architecture and functionality (principally autofocus).

But the huge difference is that FD to EF obsoleted the FD lenses because no sensible adaptor could be used to convert FD glass to EF.

That's not the case here. Nothing is going to stop you from using EF lenses as well on this new camera with an adaptor as you would on a native mount. The only issues are strength of mounting for the adaptor and weather sealing, and it sounds from the rumor that these are being addressed.

 

[AvTvM]

joly, dont even try. many here don't have a clue regarding"adapter" and the difference between going from FD to EF vs. EF to "EF-X". They even don't understand the difference between a tele-converter and an optics-free extension tube mount converter.

and a few others do understand it but just can't handle the idea that all their beloved EF glass will be "legacy" ... and possibly worth less second hand.

Even fewer have ever tried the excellent, cheap and simple Canon EF/EF-M adapter and don't know that there is no penalty in IQ or (AF) functionality involved.

I just call it "adapter-angst". ;D

That's all there is to it.

 

[nchoh]

So pretty much my prediction was correct - a new mount.

I was also predicting a camera somewhere between the 5D and 6D capabilities. Looking at the rumor, a 5D level camera would make sense as the users who use 5D are more likely to but the new camera and lenses. The 2 obvious groups are wedding/portait using the new lenses and sports/wildlife using an adapter with EF lenses.

not exactly a hard one, you had two choices, a new mount or an existing one.

Actually, it was not an easy determination. It's not a 50-50 choice. When you factor in all the risk in going to a new mount, it's probably something like 95%-5%.

Going with a new mount that eventually fails means that Canon's reputation would suffer; users might look at Canon as just a money grabber. The development cost of a new mount, the new cameras and lenses that they eventually must walk away. Sony might really gain a lot of new converts at the expense of Canon. The risk of going with a new mount are high. If Canon does not do it for the wrong reason and with the wrong strategy, it could be really bad for Canon.

I've reposted my post with the prediction and rational on this thread.

Cheers.