*UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

[Diko]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

Things are even worser: the rumors are that the 7DM2 would be with the 2 of the DIGIC 5s.

But you have no idea what has changed from 5 to 6, do you?

Canon have already stated that in DIGIC 6 we will witness:

---
* - Dynamic IS now detects and compensates for tilt and parallel movement (shift blur) to create video that's exceptionally free of distortion.
My comment: I doubt that it would be implemented in the DSLRs. But who knows. Why NOT.

* - enables video recording in MP4 format. Highly compressed MP4 video not only preserves space on your memory card but also improves playback on mobile devices.

* - improved sensitivity that allows for higher resolution with less noise when shooting in dark conditions.

The above "improved sensitivity" to be read as:

* - Most probably improved ISO-NOISE-reducing-algorythm which again would be trade of for DR. I shoot in dark and these specs are important to me.
---

Most of that is NOT concerning me, because I do stills and avoid video. I am most interested in High ISO and wide DR.

the basic design of Canon cpus and the operating system have been the same for the last decade. The digic certainly doesn't fix the sensor.

EXACTLY!

However having in mind that CANON have something new. They should IMPLEMENT it for everyone or at least to those that are willing to pay above $1k and most probably are amateurs or PROs with small budget options.

 

[Marsu42]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

* - improved sensitivity that allows for higher resolution with less noise when shooting in dark conditions.

The above "improved sensitivity" to be read as:

* - Most probably improved ISO-NOISE-reducing-algorythm which again would be trade of for DR. I shoot in dark and these specs are important to me.

Thanks for the information, I didn't know they already published it! But now I really know the digic6 isn't for me - it would delay Magic Lantern, I don't do video and the noise reduction of course only concerns jpeg files and I don't do these either ... the good "film-like" nr advancement 5d2->5d3 was already done by digic5.

I don't get people's complaints about resolution.

I'm ok with 18mp, but more resolution would be nice for macro and esp. would provide more leverage for cropping different aspect ratios or cuts w/o taking multiple shots and do perspective correction in post w/o a hardware tilt/shift lens.

 

[nicku]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

Seems like the XXD line is back on track.

At $1199 i believe the XXD line will stay where is now. on those specs nothing about body construction and AF. I believe 70D will be slightly bigger but will have the same construction as the current 60D.

 

[greger]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

I'm glad I found this before it becomes 10 pages long. The new camera won't be aimed at any of us who own a Canon but
to future buyers. If it's got any features that are better than the 60D new customers to digital will find it fills their requirements. The forum chatter will continue chatter till something comes along to make us want to upgrade. Canon wants us to upgrade to Full Frame. We will because we have all this lovely glass and need a camera to replace what we have almost worn out or have grown out of. Some of us will go to the 5Dlll, it's replacement, the 6D or the 6Dll. I'm going
to use my 7D till it burns out. I will keep reading Canon Rumors to keep up on the various cameras as they come out so as to be ready for my day to upgrade.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

The problem is not the megapixel number, just that Canon is using technology from 2009 in a world of Moore's Law.

That's like Apple sticking with the camera from the 3GS for the iPhone 5.

18MP is the sweet spot? So when camera comes out with a 24MP sensor with better DR and ISO than this 2009 relic, what will you do then? Stick with your 7D because "no one needs those megapixels"?

An 8MP cellphone sensor with tiny plastic optics can out-resolve a 5MP one. Do you know what a DSLR sensor would be like at that density? There is a ton of growing room, 18MP is just the beginning.

I think the question one should be asking is "what am I going to use this camera for?". Does 15% or 25% more resolution (which the lenses are unlikely to be able to capitalise on) make you a better photographer? The major dofference between a 60D and 70D is the GPS and wifi, not the sensor. If Nikon or Sony have a bigger megapixel camera available which has the same or better iso ability (which I seriously doubt), will it be able to get better pictures or print much bigger? Or is it about bragging rights and owning a camera with the highest MP rating?

I'm a professional photographer and I'm really happy with the resolution on my 5DIII and 5DII. My landscapes are sharp at 100% and I can enlarge upto A1+ using my big Epson printer. The prints are crisp and sharp close up. When I had a 7D, I was happy with it's resolution too...it's just that the iso ability of that camera was seriously lacking. Iso 400was as high as I'd push that particular camera. It was a great camera bit the IQ wasn't that great. I hope that the next gen of 1.6x crop sensors from Canon can match the last gen full frame sensors for ISO ability and general pixel quality. Then they will have another winner on their hands.

 

[Albi86]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

The problem is not the megapixel number, just that Canon is using technology from 2009 in a world of Moore's Law.

That's like Apple sticking with the camera from the 3GS for the iPhone 5.

18MP is the sweet spot? So when camera comes out with a 24MP sensor with better DR and ISO than this 2009 relic, what will you do then? Stick with your 7D because "no one needs those megapixels"?

An 8MP cellphone sensor with tiny plastic optics can out-resolve a 5MP one. Do you know what a DSLR sensor would be like at that density? There is a ton of growing room, 18MP is just the beginning.

I think the question one should be asking is "what am I going to use this camera for?". Does 15% or 25% more resolution (which the lenses are unlikely to be able to capitalise on) make you a better photographer? The major dofference between a 60D and 70D is the GPS and wifi, not the sensor. If Nikon or Sony have a bigger megapixel camera available which has the same or better iso ability (which I seriously doubt), will it be able to get better pictures or print much bigger? Or is it about bragging rights and owning a camera with the highest MP rating?

I'm a professional photographer and I'm really happy with the resolution on my 5DIII and 5DII. My landscapes are sharp at 100% and I can enlarge upto A1+ using my big Epson printer. The prints are crisp and sharp close up. When I had a 7D, I was happy with it's resolution too...it's just that the iso ability of that camera was seriously lacking. Iso 400was as high as I'd push that particular camera. It was a great camera bit the IQ wasn't that great. I hope that the next gen of 1.6x crop sensors from Canon can match the last gen full frame sensors for ISO ability and general pixel quality. Then they will have another winner on their hands.

That's what people are talking about - if that's the same sensor. MP count is secondary, but this 18 number sounds like the fingerprint of THAT sensor.

 

[dswatson83]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

This camera will be a 6D minus the FF sensor. It will not have dual SD card slots, it will have a 11pt af (1 cross type) and will not have weather sealing like the 7D and Nikon D7100 (though it will be partially metal like the 6D with some sealing).

Don't expect anything new on the 70D. The 18MP sensor from the SL1 will not be a vast improvement in image quality though it should do a bit better than the 7D above ISO 1600. The pull though features from the T5i will be wifi & gps, slightly higher frame rate, and a slightly bigger more robust body (but still not as good as a 7D). This will be a camera aimed at the consumer market for sure.

 

[tiger82]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

What's not new for you may be new (and now affordable) to someone else. Why rail on a camera not aimed at you? The 70D, T5i, and SL1 are terrific cameras for those whose needs they meet. What everyone here wants is a 1DX or a 1DXL. I'm willing to wait until the 1DX prices are where the 1D Mark IV is today.

 

[Hannes]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

This camera will be a 6D minus the FF sensor. It will not have dual SD card slots, it will have a 9pt af (1 cross type) and will not have weather sealing like the 7D and Nikon D7100 (though it will be partially metal like the 6D with some sealing).

I very much doubt they will stick a worse af system in the 70D than in the rebel line up. During the 40D and 50D eras they segmented by using the af system as one differentiator after all so to me it'd make most sense to put the 7D af system in there. Especially as the R&D cost will already have happened and production going well.

 

[Diko]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

The 70D, T5i, and SL1 are terrific cameras for those whose needs they meet.

Exactly! :'(

My needs require good performance in ISO and Dynamic Range.

For me the only option is the newest.

 

[Diko]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

This camera will be a 6D minus the FF sensor. It will not have dual SD card slots, it will have a 9pt af (1 cross type) and will not have weather sealing like the 7D and Nikon D7100 (though it will be partially metal like the 6D with some sealing).

I very much doubt they will stick a worse af system in the 70D than in the rebel line up. During the 40D and 50D eras they segmented by using the af system as one differentiator after all so to me it'd make most sense to put the 7D af system in there. Especially as the R&D cost will already have happened and production going well.

Why not - if rumors are true - the "thing" would cost $1,2k. In order to separate it from 7D2 they would do so. Otherwise 70D would suffer cannibalization from its big brother.

I give it 11 or even 19 af points at most. But for sure 1 SD slot. For sure for this money no weather sealing

 

[tiger82]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

What's not new for you may be new (and now affordable) to someone else. Why rail on a camera not aimed at you? The 70D, T5i, and SL1 are terrific cameras for those whose needs they meet. What everyone here wants is a 1DX or a 1DXL. I'm willing to wait until the 1DX prices are where the 1D Mark IV is today.

What everyone is really waiting for is the successor to the 5D2 that actually improves on IQ.

Why wait, buy the 1DX.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

This camera will be a 6D minus the FF sensor. It will not have dual SD card slots, it will have a 9pt af (1 cross type) and will not have weather sealing like the 7D and Nikon D7100 (though it will be partially metal like the 6D with some sealing).

Don't expect anything new on the 70D. The 18MP sensor from the SL1 will not be a vast improvement in image quality though it should do a bit better than the 7D above ISO 1600. The pull though features from the T5i will be wifi & gps, slightly higher frame rate, and a slightly bigger more robust body (but still not as good as a 7D). This will be a camera aimed at the consumer market for sure.

You are speaking in pretty strong absolutes here. First, the 6D does not have 9pt AF - it has 11. Secondly, the 60D was in fact weather sealed. It was not a magnesium alloy body; but it was weather sealed. I never had one issue with that in the years that I used a 60D as my primary body. Beyond that, how could you know that the sensor in the SL1 will not provide a vast improvement in image quality? You seem very convinced - I am just curious as to what your source was/is.

For me, the single biggest question mark regarding this body is the AF system. It seems to me that they could give it an equivalent AF to the current 7D and then implement something more like the 5DIII's AF on the 7DII and still have plenty of market separation. If they want to pull some Rebel/Kiss/xxxD users upmarket they really need to up the AF.

 

[overniven]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

I've been sitting on my venerable T1i, and am ready for a new body. I'm kind of torn. While I'd like to step up to something like a 6d, I don't look forward to replacing my 17-55 EF-S lens.
I'm also wondering how much I'd miss the on camera flash. I only use the one I have once and a whole for fill.

The 70d could be a very nice upgrade to my old noisy T1i, but I wonder how much of an improvement it will be.

 

[tiger82]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

Why does someone assume that if the pixel count is the same then the sensor is the same one? The 1DX. 7D, 60D, T3i, T4i, T5i, EOS-M, and SL1 are all 18MP

 

[Krob78]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

Seems like the XXD line is back on track.

I was thinking the same thing, perhaps the 70D will be the true replacement that all the 50D owners were originally looking for...

 

[Krob78]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

This sounds like a sweet upgrade from the 60D. I bought the 50D over the 60D because of the body-design and materials. Even though it was lower-spec in some ways. Add WiFi, GPS, weather-sealing, 6.5fps and Digic 5? I'd seriously consider it if I wanted a crop-camera..

Might as well throw MFA back into the picture as well. I think the 50D had it but they dropped it for the 60d, no?

 

[Krob78]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

Add the 19 pt AF system from the 7D to this and it would fly off the shelves. (I would like digic 6, better hi-ISO, and wide-tele AFMA also). If these things come through, the 70D will be many peoples choice instead of the 7D.

Perhaps. But if all that goes into the 70D, I can't wait for the announcement of the 7DII!

Indeed! One would assume that Canon would want to win back so many 50D players that never made a jump, the 70D could be a great opportunity. I can't see it replacing a 7d, as the 7DMKII will be the opportunity for Canon to continue to evolve continued success with one of their best sellers ever!

I think Canon can fix a lot with marked improvements to both the xxd line and the xd line with these two offerings, depending whether or not they actually care about that or they just want to keep on the path they've been on with some new offerings like the T5i... Hopefully the former over the latter... We shall soon enough see...

 

[jebrady03]

I found this interesting... http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-also-the-a78-summer-launch-has-been-withdrawn/

To sum it up, here's a quote from the article (with some extraneous info redacted for the sake of brevity) - emphasis is mine and is bolded:

Months ago I told you how the A-mount roadmap has been dramatically changed after the new Sony CEO started the company restructuring program. ... And now according to brand new rumors we got from trusted sources also the planed A77 successor (the A78) that should have been announced this summer has been take off the roadmap!

The reason for it is that the A78 had too little improvements over the current A77. And it is Sony’s new policy to release a camera only if it brings considerably major advancements in features and image quality. ... Sony is developing new A-mount cameras that can outperform the competition. The status quo between Nikon-Sony-Canon is over. Sony wants to become “serious” and start a real war in the camera market. The A78 simply was good but not really a game changer camera.

That's the kind of approach I wish all camera makers would adopt. Obviously, investors in Canon are happy with extreme utilization of technologies long ago paid for, but the USERS of that equipment who are currently invested and are looking for a substantial upgrade are left out in the cold.

If Sony can put out glass as good as Canon's and produce image quality on par as well - I see no reason not to go with the innovative company. Especially when in-body IS is baked right in to the experience and EVERY lens gets IS. And that's why I won't buy a refreshed 60D - no "game changing" features.

 

[Krob78]

Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]

The camera will likely be `good' in absolute terms, if this is any indication. It is really the strength of the competition at present that is the issue.

The 7D mk ii is what I'm really waiting for. But even then I will be doing a careful comparison with the Nikon offerings. I could end up with a hybrid system (since I can't give up my workhorse MP-E 65mm).

I think you've said a lot in that first paragraph Bard. Almost all Canon cameras are "good", what everyone one wants is one that is "Great" for the price of one that is "Good".

Not that I blame anyone, who wouldn't want that! It goes along with the "song of the silly" that is sung everywhere, those are all wanting and expecting a FF offering for under $1000! It's just not real, not yet anyway. I'm sure in a couple of years folks that want a FF camera under $1000 will be able to pick up used 6D's and used 5d2's for $1000 and under, it's just a matter of time...