Updated Canon 2016 Roadmap

[ahsanford]

How do you know "Canon is considering an inexpensive superzoom"? If Canon worked the way half the people here think they work, in response to something Nikon puts out, they'd be in a worse financial mess than Nikon themselves are. Nikon is not the first or second 'threat', changing markets and costs are far more important to Canon, vastly so, than anything Nikon does.

if I were a market analyst I'd advise Canon to do the opposite of pretty much anything Nikon does.

Ha, fair! No, there's been a number of different rumors (including here at CR) about a 200-600 f/slow lens materializing at Canon.

The rumor started off as being borne out of 'anything Sigma or Tamron can do, Canon can do better for 2x the cost' But the more you think about it, those 3rd party lenses are just canaries in a mine, and they are thriving. They imply Canon could also make money there.

Nikon listened to those canaries first, and even though they were just chasing a few bucks in a new market, the release of that 200-500 alongside what appears to be a pretty solid D500 offering makes a compelling sales pitch to the enthusiast birder/wildlife folks.

To me, the Tamron and Sigma represent a chance for Canon to put out a $3-4k instrument to outclass the segment. But the Nikon offering, especially at $1,400, is potentially a small threat to steal users to the FX mount. I argue the Nikon lens is far more disruptive to Canon's plans than the Sigma/Tamron, and it will force Canon to go 'cheaper' rather than 'sexier' on this supertele zoom.

- A

 

[privatebydesign]

Obviously Yoichi Okamoto was the worst photographer in the world because he used a silly SLR with manual focus. There was no way that he was able to capture the moment. Gasp! How could he have been so careless? :
So many 21st century photographers in an infant DSLR era are 1/2 the photographers of the giants of the past.
Photo below: Yoichi is not using a Canon 1Dx Mark II or a Nikon D5. For shame. ??? : ;D

A true photographer knows the rules of lighting and composition like second nature without having to rely on the "playback" image or automatic modes, in addition to having the eye, skill, ability to deliver!

Yes, forum trolls, there are plenty of other factors and variables in photography to consider. But my point is that to make a claim that only certain types of events can be shot with a certain class of DSLR cameras is ludicrous. We are living in a spoiled generation!

Not really relevant as the Rangefinders of the time were by no means the poorer cousins to the interchangable lens 135 format cameras at the time.

However Pete Souza, the current White House official photographer, shoots primarily with an ungripped 5D MkIII, before that he used an ungripped 5D MkII. Go figure.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/27019200873/

 

[ahsanford]

However Pete Souza, the current White House official photographer, shoots primarily with an ungripped 5D MkIII, before that he used an ungripped 5D MkII. Go figure.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/27019200873/

Yep, my brother proudly points out his alma mater produced Pete Souza.

That guy does a great job: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2016/may/29/pete-souza-photographing-the-real-barack-obama

(The hair touching and spider man shots are phenomenal.)

- A

 

[et31]

However Pete Souza, the current White House official photographer, shoots primarily with an ungripped 5D MkIII, before that he used an ungripped 5D MkII. Go figure.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/27019200873/

Yep, my brother proudly points out his alma mater produced Pete Souza.

That guy does a great job: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2016/may/29/pete-souza-photographing-the-real-barack-obama

(The hair touching and spider man shots are phenomenal.)

- A

Exactly! All of these professionals use the tool that works the best for their purposes and still capture award winning, emotional, and historically significant photographs. For Canon users, the 5D series provides photographers with industry workhorses.

 

[ahsanford]

Exactly! All of these professionals use the tool that works the best for their purposes and still capture award winning, emotional, and historically significant photographs. For Canon users, the 5D series provides photographers with industry workhorses.

Except to DXO, who calls the 5D line a 'semi-professional' line of cameras.

- A

 

[slclick]

Exactly! All of these professionals use the tool that works the best for their purposes and still capture award winning, emotional, and historically significant photographs. For Canon users, the 5D series provides photographers with industry workhorses.

Except to DXO, who calls the 5D line a 'semi-professional' line of cameras.

- A

We all know Jérôme Ménière sleeps on one of these

 

[Don Haines]

Had lunch with my favorite photographer today.... She read through this thread and commented "What do you expect, it's a gear site...... people are obsessed with gear and can't see other things. Nobody is going to carry a pair of those all day"

 

[Don Haines]

What happened to the reported Canon EF 200-600 f/4.5-5.6 IS being a 2016 lens?

Many believe the 200-600 f4.5-5.6 is a unicorn. Fun to fantasize about, but unlikely to ever be seen in the wild. (At least not for under $2,500)

Will it happen? Yes. That lens has some nasty headwinds -- competitors' very low prices, Canon insisting EF to be f/5.6 at the slowest, the rumor saying 600mm and not a far more reasonable price-wise 500mm, etc. -- but Canon could make it if they were so inclined.

Will it be cheap like the Nikon 200-500 f/5.6 VR for $1399? Unlikely, especially if it goes to 600mm. But I suppose Canon could (very uncharacteristically) give it away at cost if the D500 + 200-500 combo was stealing birders/wildlife users en masse from Canon. Anything's possible.

- A

The "can't be slower than F5.6" mantra we keep hearing may not be cast in stone..... I offer up the CANON EF-M 55-200MM F4.5-6.3 ZOOM LENS as evidence to the contrary.....

 

[ahsanford]

What happened to the reported Canon EF 200-600 f/4.5-5.6 IS being a 2016 lens?

Many believe the 200-600 f4.5-5.6 is a unicorn. Fun to fantasize about, but unlikely to ever be seen in the wild. (At least not for under $2,500)

Will it happen? Yes. That lens has some nasty headwinds -- competitors' very low prices, Canon insisting EF to be f/5.6 at the slowest, the rumor saying 600mm and not a far more reasonable price-wise 500mm, etc. -- but Canon could make it if they were so inclined.

Will it be cheap like the Nikon 200-500 f/5.6 VR for $1399? Unlikely, especially if it goes to 600mm. But I suppose Canon could (very uncharacteristically) give it away at cost if the D500 + 200-500 combo was stealing birders/wildlife users en masse from Canon. Anything's possible.

- A

The "can't be slower than F5.6" mantra we keep hearing may not be cast in stone..... I offer up the CANON EF-M 55-200MM F4.5-6.3 ZOOM LENS as evidence to the contrary.....

That's EF-M. I want to say it was Neuro who indicated that the EF mount requires f/5.6 (or wider) lens max aperture for proper AF function.

Sure enough, not a single current production Canon built EF or EF-S lens has an f/6.3 max aperture. Everything is f/5.6 or faster.

Third parties go with f/6.3 lenses, but Canon doesn't.

- A

 

[unfocused]

...I want to say it was Neuro who indicated that the EF mount requires f/5.6 (or wider) lens max aperture for proper AF function.

Sure enough, not a single current production Canon built EF or EF-S lens has an f/6.3 max aperture. Everything is f/5.6 or faster...

I think the issue is that an f6.3 lens must "fool" the camera body into thinking it is f5.6 in order to focus on bodies that do not have f8 autofocus. The thinking is that Canon would not want to "Rube Goldberg" their own bodies and lenses to make them work with one another.

On a related note: I actually think that is one reason why Canon is now offering multiple f8 focus points on its new cameras. The ability to select multiple focus points on a 100-400 with 1.4 extender makes the lens much more competitive with the third party options. And, actually, as I think about this, the f8 autofocus points could also make an f6.3 lens more likely.

 

[jeffa4444]

...
On a related note: I actually think that is one reason why Canon is now offering multiple f8 focus points on its new cameras. The ability to select multiple focus points on a 100-400 with 1.4 extender makes the lens much more competitive with the third party options. And, actually, as I think about this, the f8 autofocus points could also make an f6.3 lens more likely.

I'd disagree with the third party thing and just say that Canon are trying to ensure that various combinations of Canon gear works as the owner might expect which is to say that a person that owned a 100-400 & 1.4 extender could legitimately expect those two pieces of equipment to "just work" when mounted on a Canon DSLR.

The real question will be whether or not Canon goes further to make AF work with the 100-400 when used with a a 2x extender - or maybe it already does when you use DPAF.

Having bought both the 100-400mm MKII and the 1.4ex MKIII (roughly £ 2,120 combined) I DO expect them to just work in the Canon system. I will never purchase the 2X because it doesn't. I also think Canon should make them work with Rebel cameras if someone has spent that kind of money on lenses.
I played around with both the Sigma and Tamron 150-600 zooms and none of them were as well made as the Canon 100-400 and personally at the short end 150 is too long.
Having used the 100-400 in South Africa on safari I only had two occasions where I needed a longer reach and the 1.4 would be enough of an extension.

 

[Loswr]

...
Except to DXO, who calls the 5D line a 'semi-professional' line of cameras.
...

I want to blame this on Canon but Canon has re-organised its website. I'm sure in the past that it used to have "pro" and "semi-pro" groups of cameras that are responsible for this but maybe I'm mis-remembering.

From Canon's press release for the 1DX Mark II:

"... the Canon EOS-1D X Mark II camera becomes the ideal camera for any professional image creator."

- leading paragraph of the press release.

For the 5Ds/R:

"Delivering unparalleled quality, the cameras provide an exceptional combination of resolution, responsiveness and durability, whether shooting landscapes, architecture, high fashion or portraiture, either personally or professionally."

For the 5D Mark III:

"As well as offering the depth-of-field control loved by video professionals, the new full-frame sensor combines with the vast processing power of DIGIC 5+ to improve image quality by virtually eradicating the presence of moiré, false colour and other artefacts."

- nowhere else does the 5D Mark III press release mention the word "professional" (aside from referring to DPP)

If you look at the press releases from Canon, Canon quite clearly has target markets in mind through the language (for example where the word "professional" is used") present in the press release for each camera.

Yes, it's quite apparent that Canon doesn't consider the 5-series to be pro cameras...in dilbertland. The rest of us live in a place called reality.

 

[Don Haines]

That's EF-M. I want to say it was Neuro who indicated that the EF mount requires f/5.6 (or wider) lens max aperture for proper AF function.

Sure enough, not a single current production Canon built EF or EF-S lens has an f/6.3 max aperture. Everything is f/5.6 or faster.

Quite true, but the presence of cameras that AF at F8, plus that the EOS-M has a native F6.3 lens, are all indications that F5.6 is no longer the brick wall it once was. It will be interesting to see what the future brings... who knows? The next EOS-M with F8 AF points? A rebel?

<EDIT> One of the big things (pun intended) with the M series is the compact size.... allowing slower lenses (and that means smaller size) allows Canon to add some longer focal lengths to the system and still keep to a small and relatively inexpensive size..... and the same could happen to Rebels! </EDIT>

 

[Ryananthony]

That's EF-M. I want to say it was Neuro who indicated that the EF mount requires f/5.6 (or wider) lens max aperture for proper AF function.

Sure enough, not a single current production Canon built EF or EF-S lens has an f/6.3 max aperture. Everything is f/5.6 or faster.

Quite true, but the presence of cameras that AF at F8, plus that the EOS-M has a native F6.3 lens, are all indications that F5.6 is no longer the brick wall it once was. It will be interesting to see what the future brings... who knows? The next EOS-M with F8 AF points? A rebel?

<EDIT> One of the big things (pun intended) with the M series is the compact size.... allowing slower lenses (and that means smaller size) allows Canon to add some longer focal lengths to the system and still keep to a small and relatively inexpensive size..... and the same could happen to Rebels! </EDIT>

does the EOS M use phase detect AF with the native f6.3 lens?

 

[FECHariot]

And if they turned up with a 5DSR instead of 1Dx how would you feel then?

Well if Hanson Fong shows up to your wedding with his 5Dsr, you gotta kick him to the curb. lol

 

[Mikehit]

...
Except to DXO, who calls the 5D line a 'semi-professional' line of cameras.
...

I want to blame this on Canon but Canon has re-organised its website. I'm sure in the past that it used to have "pro" and "semi-pro" groups of cameras that are responsible for this but maybe I'm mis-remembering.

From Canon's press release for the 1DX Mark II:

"... the Canon EOS-1D X Mark II camera becomes the ideal camera for any professional image creator."

- leading paragraph of the press release.

For the 5Ds/R:

"Delivering unparalleled quality, the cameras provide an exceptional combination of resolution, responsiveness and durability, whether shooting landscapes, architecture, high fashion or portraiture, either personally or professionally."

For the 5D Mark III:

"As well as offering the depth-of-field control loved by video professionals, the new full-frame sensor combines with the vast processing power of DIGIC 5+ to improve image quality by virtually eradicating the presence of moiré, false colour and other artefacts."

- nowhere else does the 5D Mark III press release mention the word "professional" (aside from referring to DPP)

If you look at the press releases from Canon, Canon quite clearly has target markets in mind through the language (for example where the word "professional" is used") present in the press release for each camera.

Clearly unable to understand the difference between 2 concepts:
- If you are a professional you must use this camera
- Professionals demand a well-built, rugged camera that is more durable than those normally expected by the hobbyist. So Canon have designed these cameras to meet that demand.

 

[Don Haines]

Personally, I don't believe in the concept of "professional" gear. It is marketing hype.... nothing more, nothing less.

What you have is a variety of imaging devices with different features and different build quality at different prices. A professional will select the tool(s) that best meet their imaging and budgetary requirements.

Lunch is almost over..... I am heading back to the lab with my "pro" spectrum analyzers, my "pro" computers, my "pro" toolkit, and my cup of "pro" coffee......

 

[Loswr]

Rather than just look for a reason where "dilbert is wrong"

Really, no one ever needs to look. :

 

[slclick]

Personally, I don't believe in the concept of "professional" gear. It is marketing hype.... nothing more, nothing less.

What you have is a variety of imaging devices with different features and different build quality at different prices. A professional will select the tool(s) that best meet their imaging and budgetary requirements.

Lunch is almost over..... I am heading back to the lab with my "pro" spectrum analyzers, my "pro" computers, my "pro" toolkit, and my cup of "pro" coffee......

Have you tried the Pro Nikon Half and Half? DxO gives it a 97 compared to Canon's 2% at 88

 

[ahsanford]

Have you tried the Pro Nikon Half and Half? DxO gives it a 97 compared to Canon's 2% at 88

Yep. I tried the exact same Zeiss coffee in a Nikon mug and a Canon mug. DXO declared the Nikon cup to be "outstanding" but the Canon was deemed to be "limited".

- A