What’s going on with Canon Speedlites?

[Roo]

My Yongnuos didn't ETTL at all well with my R3s (unpredictable over/underexposure every time), so I ordered 2 x EL-1s. After waiting 3 months, with still no definitive delivery date, and needing them for an upcoming shoot, I picked up 2 EL-5s and don't regret it at all. They are easy to operate and have an impressive refresh rate with the only minor issue being that the head is too large for my S-Type speedlite holders but the Yongnuos are still good for off camera work.

I'm not surprised that Canon is re-thinking their strategy as the flagship EL-1 cannot take advantage of the new flash mount on the unofficial flagship camera, while the logical replacement for the workhorse 600ex rt (EL-5) is not backwards compatible.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I agree that Canon seems to be having issues with the Speedlite lineup. Perhaps that came about because the transition from the old hotshoe to the new multifunction shoe (MFS)happened during the transition from ###EX to EL-# flashes. At least they made the new shoe compatible with the old flashes (weathersealing notwithstanding).

But even so, they could have done a lot better IMO. The R100 coming post-MFS but with the old shoe, the R50 coming with the MFS but without contacts for backward compatibility, meaning the AD-E1 is needed to use older flashes (even the not-so-old EL-100). It reminds me of Nikon's old bodies/lenses where some had an AF motor and some didn't, and you needed a look-up table to see which lenses were compatible with which bodies.

I get the rationale for the R50 and R100 being 'different' – they are entry-level bodies and likely Canon's data show very few buyers at that level purchase an external flash, relying on the popup flash as needed. Likewise, I get ripping off the bandaid and not allowing compatibility between EL-5 and R5.

But those decisions coupled with the production delays (whatever the cause) have made for a confusing situation.

Fortunately for me, I have an EL-5, and a set of four 600EX-RT flashes (ranging from 8-11 years old and all working perfectly), plus the ST-E10.

 

[jdavidse]

Incompatibility with some really common cameras such as the R5 is the death of this line. Godox is a way better choice until they get this figured out, and will probably still be a better choice even if they do get it ironed out.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

What a mess!
I'm still rocking a pair of EX 600 RT's and a ST-E3 RT. I've not felt the need to upgrade or side grade.
They work great with my R6ii and R8. Sure, I loose weather sealing because Canon have made the AD-E1 adapter nearly impossible to obtain.

The newer flashes seem to utilise a newer lithium battery instead of the far more comon 4xAA battery option.
While the newer single lithium battery looks like a step forwards, and can be charged in a regular camera battery charger,,,it is in fact another propriety Canon battery meaning that I would have to invest in another battery system if I want redundancy.
That's enough to put me off right there. The mess of compatability between Multi function and regular hoteshoe is just abysmal product management from Canon.

 

[YuengLinger]

I also have several 600ex-rt's, and they've always been durable and reliable. I also like the EL-100 for casual photography, just for fill and catchlights. Yes, it bounces, but the stars have to align just right with distance.

I've never tried a Godox V1, but from what I've read in reviews and Godox forums, plus from looking this evening at the negative reviews on B&H, most of the complaints are from Sony users--and nearly always about hotshoe problems.

And is the Godox V1 the big competitor? Or would it be one with a more typical speedlight head, such as the Godox V860IIC?

I agree with comments here about R system compatibility; and of course the price of new Canon Speedlites is an issue too.

But use of on-camera flash has changed a lot the past five years with Godox's introduction of the AD200. Prior to this amazing little strobe, speedlights of one brand or another were a practical option to put on light-stands. Now they seem far too limiting, and I don't know any local photographers who still use them for events or location portraiture. Godox is a very good budget alternative to Prophoto for 400W and 600W strobes, but for somebody needing a few 200W extremely versatile lights, AD200's are very hard to beat at any price. Purchase includes two heads--one speedlight and one bulb--plus an excellent lithium battery.

So having a single Canon Speedlite for on-camera bounce is great, but I haven't used more than one at a time for three years now. Speedlights, for me, are limited to bounce and, occasionally, fill--and that's it. In all other location situations, I'd go with a Godox trigger and a combination of AD200's, AD400's, and AD600's. (The AD200 is amazing as a lightweight hair-light that doesn't need a massive boom and counterweight, for instance. But it also fine as a key light in many scenarios.)

What I'm getting at is that the Canon Speedlite is still a good product, but it is so limiting, compared to alternatives, that I could not imagine buying more than one at a time if I were starting out today. So, if other photographers are thinking this way now, buying only one at most, rather than additional units to put up on light-stands, that's a big hit to sale volumes.

I'm not faulting Canon for not attempting to compete more seriously in the OFF-camera flash arena. (It might have been financially impossible!) I just think that failing to do so has relegated their Speedlites to a very narrow market at this point.

 

[ronbyram]

What a mess!
I'm still rocking a pair of EX 600 RT's and a ST-E3 RT. I've not felt the need to upgrade or side grade.
They work great with my R6ii and R8. Sure, I loose weather sealing because Canon have made the AD-E1 adapter nearly impossible to obtain.

The newer flashes seem to utilise a newer lithium battery instead of the far more comon 4xAA battery option.
While the newer single lithium battery looks like a step forwards, and can be charged in a regular camera battery charger,,,it is in fact another propriety Canon battery meaning that I would have to invest in another battery system if I want redundancy.
That's enough to put me off right there. The mess of compatability between Multi function and regular hoteshoe is just abysmal product management from Canon.

Did you have to buy the adapter to support the digitial hot shoe? I did. took me months to track down an adapter. I bought it beause I though and was told the 600's would not fit poperly?

 

[YuengLinger]

Other factors also affect the need for speedlights. Better dynamic range, image stabilization, denoising software, and AI assisted post-processing reduce the need for fill-flash.

And our old friends, smartphones. Flash included. Photographers who buy dedicated cameras, in some cases, educate themselves to the point where straight on, on-camera flash just doesn't measure up. So they look for alternatives. A powerful speedlight that can bounce is great, but we know bouncing is not always an option.

It's no wonder if Canon seems uncertain about how to proceed with their Speedlites. Many accomplished photographers use them only in special situations; casual photographers who rarely use them are, I believe, likely to go with a budget brand now. I just don't see Speedlites as gear that can demand premium prices in the same way as great lenses.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Other factors also affect the need for speedlights. Better dynamic range, image stabilization, denoising software, and AI assisted post-processing reduce the need for fill-flash.

And our old friends, smartphones. Flash included. Photographers who buy dedicated cameras, in some cases, educate themselves to the point where straight on, on-camera flash just doesn't measure up. So they look for alternatives. A powerful speedlight that can bounce is great, but we know bouncing is not always an option.

It's no wonder if Canon seems uncertain about how to proceed with their Speedlites. Many accomplished photographers use them only in special situations; casual photographers who rarely use them are, I believe, likely to go with a budget brand now. I just don't see Speedlites as gear that can demand premium prices in the same way as great lenses.

Canon have been pushing the excessive price curve their speedlites for some time with minimal actual benefits between each minor upgrade.
I have heard it said that Canon flashes are made under license by Mitsubishi. I wonder if each model / version is a contractual production run.

There are many use case scenarios, I have a pair or ex 600 RT’s myself. I also have a set of studio mono blocks, which are larger and more sophisticated than the Canon speedlites and curiously a lot less expensive.

 

[Walrus]

I feel first party strobes (either Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc) are a very VERY narrow market; event and party photographers (which uses on camera flash the most) usually look at their wallet, and buy cheapest stuff they can find, because they know they will bash the thing around quite hard and get beers and drinks spilled on it, so they're not going for uber expensive first party stuff.

And when you switch to off camera flash and/or multi strobes setups, you definitely look at standandalone strobes with a system around them, so Godox, Wescott and similar if you're in a low/medium budget, or Profoto if you0re on a high budget or you rent (or Elinchrom or Broncolor; but I don't know if they have small and portable battery powered heads like Profoto has). First party strobes really don't work for off camera flash, they don't have a fully developed system around them, and they're not brand-neutral (except for the trigger) when you change system, either because you switch or simply because you run two systems in parallel (I know many with CaNiSo FF kits and a lighter Fuji Aps kit).

Photography is less "popular" then 15/20 years ago, there are not many advanced amateurs anymore, which were the people who most used first party strobes.
Now we just remained with basic "smartphone" amateurs, who buys R50/R100 and equivalents from other brands, and would rarely, if ever, attach anything on the hot shoe.
There are working professionals, that buys into strobe systems, and first party strobes don't have any system around them, and they are too expensive anyway; if they run small business they buy Godox, if they run medium business they buy Profoto/Broncolor/Elinchrom (maybe not the latest stuff), and if they run big business they don't buy as they directly rent when needed.
So who buys first party stuff? Rich pro? Yes, maybe they buy some and they get them to some use, but numbers are small. Rich amateurs? Same, they're small numbers.
With a Canon EL-1's price (but is the same for the Profoto A1) you buy two Godox AD600BM studio heads with good stands and a couple of sofboxes, or three super flexible AD200Pro with the same accessories. Someone is certainly buying the EL-1 or the A1, but I don't think numbers are enough to justify them, at least for Canon and the other camera manufactures. Let's have them do cameras and lenses, and leave stobes to strobes manufacturers.

 

[diegopisante]

I got the EL-1 and the ST-E10 (trigger)!
The El-1 is a workhorse, it doesn't misfire anytime...and I can shoot sometimes at 1/512 or even 1/1024 depending on the ISO, as well as the bicolor LED for quick videos. One battery can last a full wedding of 8 to 10 hours. I have been using it on the R6 and R6MK2.
I have to 600 EX-RT since 2009 and used it a LOT, at the end of 2020 I gave a chance for the Godox V860III (new battery), and it was a total failure! That made me so angry to buy the EL-1, guess what, it was the best investment...like an RF 85 1.2 LOL.
The ST-E10 is the size of a candy and fits easily in the pocket. It's very easy to set up and change groups and power.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The ST-E10 is the size of a candy and fits easily in the pocket. It's very easy to set up and change groups and power.

And that’s why I use an all-Canon system most of the time (the exception being when I add in a monolight for more power, but I set that to be optically triggered by the Speedlites.

I fiddled with PocketWizards before the Canon RT system arrived, and spent more time fiddling than shooting. The Canon setup just works. It can all be controlled from the large(r) camera LCD, and it just works.

 

[Roo]

Did you have to buy the adapter to support the digitial hot shoe? I did. took me months to track down an adapter. I bought it beause I though and was told the 600's would not fit poperly?

The real reason for the adaptor is to ensure weather sealing for the digital interface. I found it made no difference connecting a Canon or Yongnuo 600ex directly or via the adaptor when I tested it - the Canon worked perfectly but the Yongnuo was still erratic.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The real reason for the adaptor is to ensure weather sealing for the digital interface.

Correct. The AD-E1 is only needed for weather sealing. The only exception is for those with an R50, which has the new contacts but lacks backward compatibility and thus requires the adapter to mount an ‘old’ flash (including the EL-100 and EL-1).

 

[pzyber]

They should have kept the old hotshoe on all flashes until all currently selling bodies had gotten the new hotshoe. Then they should have released updated flashes for the new hotshoe.

And they should have kept the backwards compatible pin on the R50. No reason not to.

 

[neuroanatomist]

And they should have kept the backwards compatible pin on the R50. No reason not to.

Obviously, there was a reason not to. Reducing production cost to increase profit comes to mind.

 

[lipe]

Adding more. We know canon people are reading this. They make the battery price for flashes so high. Nobody wants to use AA anymore. The new flash battery are too expensive. There are many brand out there like Godox, they make great battery rechargeable to USBC- unlike canon still sticking to old charger.

 

[LDS]

or Elinchrom or Broncolor; but I don't know if they have small and portable battery powered heads like Profoto has

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[YuengLinger]

Correct. The AD-E1 is only needed for weather sealing. The only exception is for those with an R50, which has the new contacts but lacks backward compatibility and thus requires the adapter to mount an ‘old’ flash (including the EL-100 and EL-1).

Glad you pointed this out. Thank you. I was planning on getting the R50 for my daughter, but I'll pause for a few days. I thought she could just use my EL-100 to learn about bounce...The adapter seems to be out of stock for now.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Glad you pointed this out. Thank you. I was planning on getting the R50 for my daughter, but I'll pause for a few days. I thought she could just use my EL-100 to learn about bounce...The adapter seems to be out of stock for now.

The recently CR-maligned R100 is directly compatible with older flashes (and not compatible with the EL-5 / ST-E10, at all).

 

[john1970]

Glad you pointed this out. Thank you. I was planning on getting the R50 for my daughter, but I'll pause for a few days. I thought she could just use my EL-100 to learn about bounce...The adapter seems to be out of stock for now.

I do not know where you are based, but I could not find any adapters in stock in places I normally shop in the United States. Even though the R100 was strongly criticized; it would still fundamentally take photos and work with the old flashes.

In 2008 when I started this hobby my first camera was a Nikon D200 with only 10 MP and I paid close to $1500 if I remember correctly. The Canon R100 is light years ahead of the Nikon D200 and much more affordable.

There is a refurbished Canon R100 with RF-S18-45 mm kit lens for $329 directly from Canon. USA if you are based in the United States:

Refurbished R100

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/refurbished-eos-r100-rf-s18-45mm-f4-5-6-3-is-stm-lens-kit

Is this your daughter's first camera? What type of photography does she enjoy?

Good luck,

John