What will Canon bring to the table with the EOS R1?

EOS 4 Life

EOS RP
Sep 20, 2020
371
259
My guess for R1 is minimum specs as R5 but in 1D body ( AF-On smart controller buttons, dual CFe slots) with:
- Global shutter (no mechanical shutter). Rolling shutter artifacts significantly better than current electronic shutter
1) Wouldn't we still need a mechanical shutter for a flash?
2) There is no such thing as a rolling shutter artifact with a global shutter.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS RP
Sep 20, 2020
371
259
I agree about the form factor. I love the 1D series. One has to wonder whether it is wise to bring a new pro camera to market right now. So many events were cancelled last year, and this year looks to be the same. I think Canon should work on firmware upgrades for 1DX I, II and III and release the EOS 1R or 1DX V (jump IV, why not) in 2022 or even 2023.
The sheer amount of cameras Sony, Canon, Nikon, and Fuji are bringing in a contracting market boggles my mind.
I have no idea why they are coming out with new cameras and yet photographers are complaining that there is no more.
 

JohnC

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Sep 22, 2019
131
160
Gainesville,GA
The sheer amount of cameras Sony, Canon, Nikon, and Fuji are bringing in a contracting market boggles my mind.
I have no idea why they are coming out with new cameras and yet photographers are complaining that there is no more.

A race to see which dog gets the biggest meal in a new mirrorless era. Whether the total market is smaller or not is somewhat irrelevant, you still want to have the most of it. If you don't you might as well bail out.
 

AEWest

EOS RP
Jan 30, 2020
249
312
I agree about the form factor. I love the 1D series. One has to wonder whether it is wise to bring a new pro camera to market right now. So many events were cancelled last year, and this year looks to be the same. I think Canon should work on firmware upgrades for 1DX I, II and III and release the EOS 1R or 1DX V (jump IV, why not) in 2022 or even 2023.
I don't think they should wait that long - they do need to respond to the competition sooner.

If Nikon dithers, some pro Nikon D6 shooters will be looking to switch and will only have Sony as the pro mirrorless option. Canon wouldn't want that to happen.
 
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canonmike

EOS RP
CR Pro
Jan 5, 2013
231
163
Prediction: The R1 will only be released this year if they actually go forward with the Olympics.
Given the recent Sony A1 announcement, I don't think that would be a very good strategy on Canon's part, unless Canon knows they will now need to go back to the drawing board and up their R1 game to better compete with Sony's new A1, in which case, the Olympics won't have much bearing on its release. What a great time to be a consumer. I don't think the R1 will disappoint. Bring it on!!!!!
 
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Maps

EOS M7 (please)
Jan 10, 2021
46
91
Given the recent Sony A1 announcement, I don't think that would be a very good strategy on Canon's part, unless Canon knows they will now need to go back to the drawing board and up their R1 game to better compete with Sony's new A1, in which case, the Olympics won't have much bearing on its release. What a great time to be a consumer. I don't think the R1 will disappoint. Bring it on!!!!!

Agree with this and many other valid points that folks have brought up. I’m more wondering what the state of their manufacturing apparatus is at this point and whether it’s wise to throw another product into the mix if they don’t absolutely have to. It kind of feels to me like they’re getting “peer-pressured” into an R1.
 

canonmike

EOS RP
CR Pro
Jan 5, 2013
231
163
If the R1 has a quad-pixel FF sensor with 8K video, that will be a lot to pack into a single 40+ MP sensor (probably ~45 MP with IBIS). I could see that being a possibility.

Or I could see them come out with a quadPixel FF sensor with 6K video, which would be (I assume) 6144 x 4096 = 25+ MP (probably ~30 MP with IBIS). That would allow it to be much faster and generate less heat, and possibly also allow them to add the (expensive) global shutter and still keep the cost down within reason (well, for a R1 flagship, that is).

I think they will probably have dual CFExpress-type B cards as pros will demand it, as well as a EVF similar to that in the Sony A1, both of which will also add more heat to the camera and thus might be another reason to have a ~30 MP sensor instead of a ~45 MP one. We'll see!
I believe that sports photographers, now using 1Dx iii's, would be more than happy with a 30 mp sensor, at most, on an R1. Landscape and nature photographers, while benefiting more from a higher 40-50+ mp sensor could be kept happy with an R5 version of the current 5ds r body. Many 1Dx iii sports photogs, often state that 20mp are enough for them, so I wouldn't expect them to fight for 40-50 mp in an R1. It will be interesting to see what mp approach Canon takes with the R1. You have to admire all R&D engineers across all brands for what they are now bringing to the table. Love what they are able to do as they now flirt with science fiction level capabilities in these new bodies. Just when we don't see how they could improve upon feature sets, they do just that.
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,146
2,031
The R1 will force me to change the statement I make at the top of my signature, I'm sure of that. :)

I might have to do so thanks to S*ny in any case.
 

canonmike

EOS RP
CR Pro
Jan 5, 2013
231
163
It will be interesting what the R1 will eventually be.
I guess the FPS will be all electronic shutter. They probably won't exceed the 1DXIII on the physical shutter.
I assume it will now be more that 30 FPS. It will definately have 45 / 50MP or more.
It will be interesting what progress they've made on focusing and tracking.
Even the 1DXIII which has very good focus still struggles to focus on small objects like birds in cluttered backgrounds.
The 20 MP on the 1DXIII I have always felt was too little. 30MP would have given it more longevity and all round usefulness.
It will be hard to sell 1DXIII with an R1 around. Canon may not be too concerned with that and be happy to bring the DSLR era to a close.

The 1DXIII is a great camera but it suddenly feels old fashioned. It's really huge and heavy.
A 5DIV which used to feel quite a solid weight feels lightweight in comparison.
I'd say the R1 will be smaller but can they somehow fit in an equivalent battery into it.
Battery life does matter and batteries will be expensive, large and heavy. You won't want to be carting around 3/4 of them.
While part of me would love 30 FPS I'd say the reality is that it would wreck your head sorting through the images.
Even with the 1DXIII at 16FPS a few seconds of holding down the button and you are swamped with similar images.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Canon. Would they be shocked at the Sony A1 or be quitely confident that they have something coming thats even better?
Quite agree with your final statement.
 

H. Jones

Photojournalist
Aug 1, 2014
590
1,004
I was surprised by Sony's decision to put 50MP into the A1 - but I think they are on the right track here.

Think about it - a 50 (or 45) MP camera CAN shoot at 20MP, and do so at the same speed as a '20MP' camera.

However a 20MP camera cannot shoot at 45/50MP [and 8k].

The old notion that you could have 'High Speed' OR 'High resolution' is not true any more.

I would agree with this only if Canon actually included a full-quality mRaw 20megapixel mode in the R1. But the R5 doesn't have that anymore, just cRaw. That means that, for me to shoot full quality raw files for my archives, I have to shoot the full 45 megapixels, which is 1: absolute overkill for most general news event coverage, and 2: so much data that it can drastically slow things down. I had to upgrade my laptop this year to a maxed out $4500 Dell XPS just to deal with the 20 FPS raw from the R5, and that's while my second body is still only 20 mp. It will be even more chaos and money into external harddrives if I have two 45 megapixel cameras, though the new laptop should handle it.

I actually often find myself using the 1.6x crop mode more when shooting wildlife or distant subjects in fast action, because 17 megapixels at 20FPS is far more manageable and doesn't bug me at all data-wise. While shooting full sensor gives you more reframing ability, most of the time with small birds/subjects you'll have to crop in even more from the 17MP anyway, so I'd rather just not deal with all that excess data.



On another note, did some math and it appears that at 30 megapixels, a 1700 mb/s CF-Express Type B card could pull off roughly 60FPS raw files in a second. I fully anticipate Canon pushing the FPS factor versus fighting the megapixel war again. When you consider Canon will probably has a 90+ MP EOS R5s lined up, I think they've already solved the A1 competition with the R5 at 20 FPS 45 megapixels, and will stick to a lower res but blistering FPS for the R1.
 

jam05

EOS RP
Mar 12, 2019
362
190
I doubt that is such a tight dependency. It makes no sense to sit on a developed product that is ready for mass production. What would that gain you?

We've seen numerous products launch as soon as possible despite not being able to meet the demand (all types of PC hardware, for example), for example. If Canon was behind schedule with development of the R1, a cancellation of the Olympics may take off some of the pressure, sure. But I would fully expect them to start production and shipping as soon as they are ready. Especially since production will likely see similar shortages as all other electronics devices for the early periods, and so a longer production run ahead of the sports world reopening would seem highly desireable to me.
There are no mass demands for cameras
 

David - Sydney

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
623
523
www.flickr.com
1) Wouldn't we still need a mechanical shutter for a flash?
2) There is no such thing as a rolling shutter artifact with a global shutter.
1) Sony have implemented eshutter with flash sync up to 1/200s and 1/400s if using its mechanical shutter. Part of implementing a global shutter would be to address flash sync. It could be possible to include a mechanical shutter specifically for flash but hopefully that cost won't be required
2) Agreed but with everything, there is always some delay as "instant" parallel read for each pixel doesn't exist in reality. I would need to check the patents for Canon's global shutter for how it exactly works.
Sony have reduced their read sensor time and are getting closer to an effective global shutter.
 

mpeeps

Lovin' life on the Central Coast
CR Pro
Dec 5, 2013
93
76
California
www.mpeeples.com
Sure they do but this site and ones like it are privately owned, there is no ‘right‘ for the users to be able to speak nor for there opinions to be accurately represented. We choose to be here and if we don’t like the way we are monitored or the way the site is run we can delete our posts and leave.
And get our money back??:ROFLMAO:
 

AccipiterQ

EOS 90D
Sep 11, 2014
161
198
Why not let it be 20MP....and you know....let video cameras be video cameras. If you want something with that, go get a camera specifically for that.
 

DBounce

EOS RP
May 3, 2016
264
298
Canon could potentially obsolete the A1 in one R5 firmware update.
On that note, has anyone heard from Tilta about the R5 cooling module?
a few people have made homemade versions but they look kind of grotesque.
Well I doubt a firmware update would yield the blazing 30 FPS shutter speed. But in some ways the R5 is already superior:

• 8K Raw internal with 4:2:2 color vs No raw
• Downsampled 4K vs Pixel binned
• Higher resolution LCD
• Superior ergonomics
• Better color science, by most accounts
• Records to more affordable, but faster media
• Cost almost half as much

I replaced my R5 with the A7S III... a camera which offers a good balance and reliable operation. But if the choice was between the unreasonably priced, inferior video shooting A1 and the R5? I’m thinking I would still have the R5.
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
153
128
Orewa , New Zealand
So I can tell you right now, as much as I want a massive resolution increase over the current 1DXIII, it will prevent many photographers from buying it. Unless Canon comes out with a better alternative to cRAW and allows us to shoot in smaller, more preferred resolutions, I and many others will struggle to justify making this our $6,000+ camera in the bag.

Why?

I was one of the first photographers in "my little slice" of the publishing industry that bought the R5. Several friends waited for my results before they pulled the trigger themselves and many of them shared my same criticism - 'I don't need 45mp to cover a race/event/wedding/real estate, etc.' I was quick to identify this and purchased the R6 to partner with my R5. Weddings in particular don't benefit from 45mp, it's more of a burden than anything else. At least in motorsports photography I can use that resolution for additional flexibility for cropping, in print or advertisement...but there is zero value in a 8192 x 5464 pixel dancefloor shot or cake cutting, so I lean on the R6 after the portrait session has concluded.

This is something many of us identify as a shortcoming of the R5 and it's rather upsetting. I hope that Canon reconsiders the importance of cRAW and can bring back an mRAW format that keeps things in the 12-15 and 20-26mp sweet spots. The argument of always shooting at the maximum resolution isn't exactly true for all of us. When I cover events I can shoot thousands of images a day for 3-4 days at a time and have to turn those around same day...and I still want the benefits of RAW, just not the resolution or file size. Yes, cRAW is roughly the size of a standard 20mp RAW out of the R6, but those images do NOT process easily in software like 20mp, as it chugs along to read the 45mp file format, versus blazing through a normal CR2/CR3 RAW...not sure why, but please give us back smaller RAW.
Have you experimented with the HEIF file format at all ?
Looks to have similar editing flexibility to raw but with small file size like jpegs.
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
705
166
OK - very funny! :ROFLMAO:

But on the off chance that you're serious (yes, a verrrrrry far-off chance), I'll be looking forward to your release next week! ;)


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NO! It's almost identical to what you described! Cooling tubes through the camera body! Where DID you get that idea from?

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