What's Next? Lenses & Cameras

[psolberg]

I agree, Canon has to come out with a killer response to the D800 and D800e. I doubt that they have a very good response though; perhaps a reason for them delaying the release of a 5D III.

Thought we should all take a walk down memory lane.

Does anyone remember the time when the Nikon D90 was announced? It was the first camera with video capabilities and everyone thought Canon was doomed. But several weeks later, the 5D2 was announced: FF camera with 1080p video capability. Then, as they say, the rest is history: nobody ever talked about the video capability of the D90 anymore, the 5D2 became a massive seller for Canon (surprising even Canon themselves) and every single Canon DSLR after the 5D2 was equipped 1080p video capability while Nikon had nothing to offer (with 1080p) until the D3100 was released...

they were different cameras though. the D90 was not a 5D competitor or ever was, it was a 50/40D competitor. The D700 was the closest to a 5D competitor but really it was more of a speed demon than a high res studio camera....Also the D700 had NO video which was an auto win for canon. not so much this time around. so in a way nikon has never had a 5D competitor until now. And now it looks like the 5DIII will become a D700 competitor just as nikon leaves that segment. The bottom line is that just like the D700 wasn't inferior to the canon 5DII because it was different, and more than made up for the non video guys, the canon 5DIII won't be inferior to the nikon 800. They will be aimed at different needs and please different owners. The big news IMO is that video is now pretty much a zero sum game with all manufacturers doing it. so the free lunch of the 5D line is over.

 

[PJshooter]

Hey Canon, c'mon, with the pricing?

 

[Wrathwilde]

my bets are on 4D.

I'll bet you $20 Canon will not have a 4D in their line up. The number four is considered inauspicious, in Japan, because it is pronounced the same as the word for death.

 

[SomeGuyInNewJersey]

Re: Is anyone else as...

Half of every day is spent in the dark.

Sounds like somebody didnt pay their electricity bill...

 

[Waterdonkey]

I don't think anyone has brought it up...

But what ever the camera combo, the Video offering need to output 1080p 4:2:2 video@60,30 and 24.
H.264 is a nightmare to deal with in the broadcast world (I work for CBS in SF). We don't generally have time for grading and tweaking. You need good clean video at about 50Mbs ( Broadcast Standard? I think? Even tough we broadcast HD @ 35Mbs).
I know the 5D II was a boon for the film guys and what a camera it is - I should'a bought that instead of 7D- but the film guys have time to deal with and grade the footage.
Looking at this from the video guy point of view- I sometimes use my 7D as a 2nd cam with a Sony XDCAM-HD 350L and ok, it's the old 35Mbs VBR not the 50 Mbs. We take the HD-SDI out to a Nanoflash drive and that writes 35Mbs .MOV files. Some how that was easier then dealing with the XD"wraper" that comes off the XD disk...Now, I'm wading into the Editor's world, where they speak in CODEC and RENDER TIME and XD WRAPPERS and things I don't understand.
The point is I give them my H.264 1080p 30frames video out of my 7D and they cringe and say this will take forever to render to 4:2:2 Prores HD (or whatever) in FCP.

The crazy high 4K should be held for maybe the C400? C300 is already 4K, they just have two green channels along with the R and B... and more things I don't, well, uh, understand ...

Am I making any sense?

 

[D.Sim]

my bets are on 4D.

I'll bet you $20 Canon will not have a 4D in their line up. The number four is considered inauspicious, in Japan, because it is pronounced the same as the word for death.

you beat me to it, 4D is highly unlikely (Even though Nikon did come out with a D4, so theres that...)

That said, a new high megapix camera... not something i'd want Canon to come up with, to be honest. I don't think it'll be too much like them to release one "just to" compete with the Nikon, they'll come up with something that Nikon doesn't have... mark my words

 

[Marsu42]

Now that the cat is out of the bag, we keep hearing (well maybe more Graig then us!) more and more of the high MP camera some dream of being part of the 2012 line up. I think it will come after the 5DX or 5DIII and am sure it will blow the D800 out of the water. My two cents.

Well my to cents concerning the rumor " I have heard there will be a very high megapixel camera some time in 2012, possibly in the 40mp range and it won’t be the “5D Mark III":

This is marketing crap to torpedo D800 sales, e.g. people switching systems from Nikon to Canon. *Developing* a high MP camera is not exactly the same as having it in the release pipeline like Nikon, is it? And the updated primes they just released are not high MP but for video - the segment in which Canon is in ahead.

If Canon would be even in the general vicinity of a Camera of the D800 type, they'd call it 5DIII. If this really is released w/ 22MP, we'll know there's no high MP variant on the horizon.

 

[BlueMixWhite]

All the comparision between Nikon and Canon, did anyone realize the D4 is being delay. Nikon too have their release problem to deal with.

The first shipment of Nikon D4 cameras is delayed. The original date of February 16th is now pushed till March 15th, 2012. The reason for the delay seems to a be firmware bug and not a hardware issue. This appears to be a worldwide delay, not specific to a country or a region. The US press release listed the Nikon D4 availability as "late February".

 

[Woody]

The truth is Canon is very very good in keeping their plans under wraps. We gotta give this to them. Sure, there may be 'leaks' here and there, but no one can tell with certainty, from miles away, what their road-map is and what their next product is going to be. Contrast this with Sony's MILC releases and even the D800: detailed leaks of their specs were typically spot on several weeks or months before announcements.

I believe even if the upcoming 5D3/5DX is 'only' 22 MP and 7 fps, as rumored, it does not mean Canon has no intention of releasing a 2D or 3D camera with 40 MP. For all we know, Canon may release a 6D rebel-like FF camera with 9 AF pt, 3 fps and 40 MP? Canon, after all, has unveiled a 100 MP APS-H sensor some years ago.

 

[DzPhotography]

my bets are on 4D.

I'll bet you $20 Canon will not have a 4D in their line up. The number four is considered inauspicious, in Japan, because it is pronounced the same as the word for death.

Why the Nikon D4 then? ;D

 

[DzPhotography]

I´m sorry if things i said was upsetting to some, the thing is that i´m a very realistic person. I´m not a certain brand fanatic, though Canon is my first choice. The Nikon D800 has the same AF and metering system as the D4. 36mp and probably the best video from a dslr today. I have no doubts in my mind that Canon can make a camera just as good. But they need to hurry, they have to give us something to look forward to, not today not tomorrow, but yesterday. The sad part is that i know for a fact that a lot of people selling their canon gear and the reason is "swithing system" that´s what it says in their ads. Many doubt that Canon can match the D800. As we speak more and more are having thoughts of going to the other side. Canon should not take the D800 lightly. It´s just one camera, but it could destroy the Canon sales if Canon fails to reply right now! Show who´s boss. I always think realistic! Right now Canon is in a lot of trouble.

I couldn't care less about the D800. I'll take a lower MP FF with fantastic ISO performance over it any time.

 

[JR]

I´m sorry if things i said was upsetting to some, the thing is that i´m a very realistic person. I´m not a certain brand fanatic, though Canon is my first choice. The Nikon D800 has the same AF and metering system as the D4. 36mp and probably the best video from a dslr today. I have no doubts in my mind that Canon can make a camera just as good. But they need to hurry, they have to give us something to look forward to, not today not tomorrow, but yesterday. The sad part is that i know for a fact that a lot of people selling their canon gear and the reason is "swithing system" that´s what it says in their ads. Many doubt that Canon can match the D800. As we speak more and more are having thoughts of going to the other side. Canon should not take the D800 lightly. It´s just one camera, but it could destroy the Canon sales if Canon fails to reply right now! Show who´s boss. I always think realistic! Right now Canon is in a lot of trouble.

I couldn't care less about the D800. I'll take a lower MP FF with fantastic ISO performance over it any time.

@DrPhotography, +1 I am in the same camp as I crave for a better ISO camera. I am afraid though I will have to go with the 1DX to get it, or will I?!?!?

@Maestro, lets not forget the D800 represent only "a" market segment, what about the 1DX? In a few weeks from now when we have full test from the 1DX and the D4, what if the 1DX match the D4 in ISO but beats it in every other aspect? What then? Woulnd't that be a bummer for Nikon? Not sure we can judge Canon based on one camera segment. I dont doubt there is a need and a market for a camera like the D800, but is it more important then the market for a mid level MP camera with pro level AF and great ISO performance? That too would catter to a lot of us. Would we say the opposite if Nikon did that instead and had Canon come out with the high MP camera? Hell maybe Canon will catter to both markets. To our knowledge, Nikon is not planning another FF camera, so this is it...what I am saying is we may endup having more choice with Canon in the short run as with Nikon. Albeit frustrating because we are waiting here, but given these camera will last 3-4 years, I dont mind a few more weeks of drama!

8)

 

[DzPhotography]

@DrPhotography, +1 I am in the same camp as I crave for a better ISO camera. I am afraid though I will have to go with the 1DX to get it, or will I?!?!?

I'm in the game for the 1DX yes. But I reckon that Canon will have a second lower MP FF with great ISO, like 5DMkIII or 5Dx, whatever they will call it, which will be a lot more affordable. We just have to be patient

 

[Maui5150]

Now that the cat is out of the bag, we keep hearing (well maybe more Graig then us!) more and more of the high MP camera some dream of being part of the 2012 line up. I think it will come after the 5DX or 5DIII and am sure it will blow the D800 out of the water. My two cents.

Well my to cents concerning the rumor " I have heard there will be a very high megapixel camera some time in 2012, possibly in the 40mp range and it won’t be the “5D Mark III":

This is marketing crap to torpedo D800 sales, e.g. people switching systems from Nikon to Canon. *Developing* a high MP camera is not exactly the same as having it in the release pipeline like Nikon, is it? And the updated primes they just released are not high MP but for video - the segment in which Canon is in ahead.

If Canon would be even in the general vicinity of a Camera of the D800 type, they'd call it 5DIII. If this really is released w/ 22MP, we'll know there's no high MP variant on the horizon.

Really? Are you sure?

For one, Canon has already developed a 100 MP Camera, and that was several years ago.

Huge MP cameras are nothing new, and I am sure BOTH Canon and Nikon have a dozen developmental models that are being R&D of which MOST never see the light and day, but of which features eventually wind up in production lines.

Both Canon and Nikon have product road maps, and these road maps extend out years and years.

These road maps change over time. They are periodically re-evaluated and are one of the most protected secrets a company has.

It is also MUCH MUCH harder to change a product once it is in the release cycle. It is still difficult to change pre-release, but is possible. I suspect some of the delays on the Canon 1Dx are firmware updates to allow for their F/8 AF hole.

The D800 / D800e are not pre-order and starting to enter the release cycle. Pretty much not much new is going to happen to these cameras except bug fixes.

Canon, on the other hand has the time to tweak what ever they had in queue, whether it is improving their AF, adding in another feature, but I expect TWO cameras from Canon that will sit on either side of the D800 in terms of MP. I expect a 2D or 3D series which will be a 39 MP FF Camera that matches or beats ever spec on the Nikon, and expect it to be slightly more expensive like the 1Dx is to the D4. I also expect a moderate MP in the 24 MP range, or possibly 27MP for the 5D MK III which will be a merging of the 5D / 7D lines, so basically the 5D MK II with a little larger resolution, a lot better AF, improved color and ISO performance faster FPS, it will be cheaper than the D800 and the justification will be about IQ. The 5D MKIII will be a better performer but smaller MP. The 2D/3D will be a better performer, bigger MP.

If anything, both of these cameras become Nikon Killers because for the I NEED MORE MP crowd, they get it, and there are a lot of Nikon folks who are not crazy about 36 MP and giving them HIGH IQ, High Performance, and in a MP that is double their D700, it is much much more reasonable.

Why the delays...

I think Canon announces these in tandem.

 

[Stuart]

Canon has 3 current 70-200mm lenses F4, F2.8 and F2.8 + IS

So there must be plenty of scope for a 24-70mm IS F2.8 in the near future - perhaps waiting to released with a new 5D body?

I assume this new NON IS lens will sell like hot cakes as will the IS version when it comes.

 

[Ellen Schmidtee]

Canon has 3 current 70-200mm lenses F4, F2.8 and F2.8 + IS

Canon has released a 70-200mm f/4 IS over five years ago.

 

[Ellen Schmidtee]

Re: Is anyone else as...

...completely unmoved by Canon's recent gear as I am?

Me too.

For lenses, I'm interested in fast, low-CA lenses. And no, 2.8 isn't fast. 1.2 or 1.0 is fast.

I'll settle for reasonable priced (= closer to current non-L, rather than L) primes with f/2.0, though reading reviews like this make me think again...

For cameras, I'm interested in high ISO and low noise and more dynamic range. Not more pixels. 10...15mp is fine.

I would go that low, but 18MP would be just fine.

Seriously, it's been years since Canon released *anything* I actually wanted to go out and buy.

My last three lenses are Sigma or Samyang, and so will be my next two. I would have bought an EF 24mm f/2 USM, but Canon would rather sell an EF 24mm f/2.8 IS USM to somebody else.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I wasn't trying to say they should be the same price, only that the increase in price is more than I would have anticipated.

In Japan, the 24-70/2.8 II will be Y230,000 (excluding tax):

http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/lineup/standard-zoom/ef24-70-f28l-ii/index.html

and the 24-70/2.8 is Y220,000 (excluding tax):

http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/lineup/standard-zoom/ef24-70-f28l/index.html

The increase in price for the USA is due to the drop in value of the US dollar.

I may be lacking in basic understanding of economics, but that makes no sense. These are Canon Japan's MSRP; a ¥10000 difference in absolute terms means a difference of $129.

Perhaps a better way to phrase is would be that Canon is no longer giving US customers as big a price break. For example, on amazon.co.jp, the 24-70 lists for ¥144000, which converts to $1857 - based on the value of the dollar, that's what we should be paying, not the $1369 it lists at on B&H (not counting the $100 rebate). The MkII lists on amazon.co.jp for ¥195615 = $2523. So, we in the USA are still getting a break...just not as big a break.

The value of the dollar relative to the yen is only one factor - that alone doesn't explain the above. Obviously, $1 ≠ 1 €. But the prices aren't Canon deciding to bilk European or other customers around the world, and cutting those in the US some slack. Most people don't consider the negotiations, tariffs, and trade concessions that occur between Japan and the US and other countries. Those are the primary reasons that US prices are relatively lower than the rest of the world (or, depending on your viewpoint, that's why those in the EU, AUS, etc., get 'screwed').

The street price of the MkI has a much greater drop relative to MSRP than the MkII, which is to be expected for an old vs. a new lens.

 

[moreorless]

Now that the cat is out of the bag, we keep hearing (well maybe more Graig then us!) more and more of the high MP camera some dream of being part of the 2012 line up. I think it will come after the 5DX or 5DIII and am sure it will blow the D800 out of the water. My two cents.

Well my to cents concerning the rumor " I have heard there will be a very high megapixel camera some time in 2012, possibly in the 40mp range and it won’t be the “5D Mark III":

This is marketing crap to torpedo D800 sales, e.g. people switching systems from Nikon to Canon. *Developing* a high MP camera is not exactly the same as having it in the release pipeline like Nikon, is it? And the updated primes they just released are not high MP but for video - the segment in which Canon is in ahead.

If Canon would be even in the general vicinity of a Camera of the D800 type, they'd call it 5DIII. If this really is released w/ 22MP, we'll know there's no high MP variant on the horizon.

It seems a little silly that people accept one rumour as gospel and dismiss the other out of hand. If Canon were looking to feed info to kill D800 sales I'm guessing this isnt the form it would take.

Why would Canon definately call a high megapixel body the 5D mk3? to me the 5D brand say"high megapixels" but rather "the FF body is the broadest appeal" and I'd argue that if the "22 MP" specs we've seen are real they represent something with a boarder appeal than a 40+ MP camera with limated FPS and ISO performance.

 

[D.Sim]

I´m sorry if things i said was upsetting to some, the thing is that i´m a very realistic person. I´m not a certain brand fanatic, though Canon is my first choice. The Nikon D800 has the same AF and metering system as the D4. 36mp and probably the best video from a dslr today. I have no doubts in my mind that Canon can make a camera just as good. But they need to hurry, they have to give us something to look forward to, not today not tomorrow, but yesterday. The sad part is that i know for a fact that a lot of people selling their canon gear and the reason is "swithing system" that´s what it says in their ads. Many doubt that Canon can match the D800. As we speak more and more are having thoughts of going to the other side. Canon should not take the D800 lightly. It´s just one camera, but it could destroy the Canon sales if Canon fails to reply right now! Show who´s boss. I always think realistic! Right now Canon is in a lot of trouble.

I couldn't care less about the D800. I'll take a lower MP FF with fantastic ISO performance over it any time.

Totally agree here. I could care less about the D800.

Many people are switching camps? All for megapix? If it does happen, it'll be people with no brand loyalty - people who Canon aren't aiming for anyway. They'll just as easily switch back to Canon once Canon's "D800 killer" comes out - The 5D MkII was king of the prosumer FF for a while, its gonna take a lot more than 36MP to pull people away.