Why R5 Mechanical shutter shock so serious? Amost makes it useless.
- Thread starter Rzrsharp
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He did not post the best, most useful shots, granted. But he is sharing issues other R5 owners are experiencing, myself included. That said, his shots were compressed when uploaded, and if you cropped them, weren't they degraded again?
Is the OP exaggerating by saying "unusable"? I would say disappointing, not what we expect from the R5 and Rf glass. It is hard to define "unusable" for all photographers in every situation. And I'd like to see his RAWs on my own screen. But the softness affects images, and justifiably raises questions about the performance of the R5. Fortunately, a growing number of users have narrowed down the problem.
I think if the threshold for any issue with the R5 is whether images are "usable," then what standards would any camera company be held to?
In any event, it is a problem, and like other issues that can be mitigated with firmware fixes, I hope this one is too.
Have you tested this yourself with an R5? If you are hoping for fine details, would you choose mechanical shutter at the problematic speeds? And would you choose EFCS for 1/2500th and higher when shooting at f/1.2-f/2.8 where backgrounds matter? It would be nice if Canon could AT LEAST add a menu option to switch shutter modes at threshold shutter speeds.
In the meantime, we try to remember to switch shutter modes depending on shutter speeds we are expecting to use. But it is a PITA when in Av mode in varying light situations.
Did you already read through this thread? Strange case of blur images. Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 | Canon Rumors
PBD, it's good you are challenging us on this, because certainly Canon needs clear evidence to address any issue, and plenty of it. So, controlled tests with large file sizes when communicating with Canon support.
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I´m not sure I am going to be unfair on my comment but....You do know the rule to double the focal distance in shutterspeed right?
I own a R5 form the first ones and I don´t have any issue with the camera. But from what I am seeing here you have a so called "user mistake". If you are making photos at 70mm you should use a speed of, at least 1/160 to prevent the blur in the image and thats exactly what I am seeing here! The variation of sharp is directly dependent of your stability. It´s a common mistake to rely on IBIS or IS to prevent the shake of lower shutters but at big focal distances you should be aware that Ibis or IS makes no miracles. I think the Ibis or IS is much more useful to video than to stills, but they do work in a vary of situations!
Another thing, I realize you are working with an EF lens and be aware that with EF lenses, Ibis is not so efective. Another thing i did notice form the R5, the camera seems not to like some lenses...I find that my EF 16-35 F4 IS is not so great lens like if I use it with the 1dx mkII. And this leads me to my final point...45 MP! If you shoot with this much MP you must be aware that you will notice much more the failures than other cameras with less MP. Using a camera with High MP you must be careful to always increase a bit the shutter to prevent blurry images. Even if you think a certain shutter will be enough, always give a little bit.
If you are shooting at 1/100 or less with a 70mm focal distance , well....you have a high chance to get blurry images and thats not a camera fault.
Never noticed any issue in my camera, on the contraire, I just LOVE this camera! BTW try to use a RF glass and you will see a difference of attitude!
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Judging from the posted shots I wouldn’t say “disappointing” I’d say nonexistent to any noticeable degree in actual images. I bet nobody could tell which of the four were which.
Might there be a slight degradation at massive enlargement sizes or huge crops for some people in some modes at one shutter speed? Possibly, but if this is an example of the difference I’d say we are not looking at an “issue”.
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With all due respect this is a shutter-shock problem, and not related to focal distance or other variables you mention. It is not affected by IBIS being on or off.
You should try, as I did with an Rf 24-70mm to take shots from 1/60th-1/200th in both mechanical and EFCS shutter-modes. Let us know if you see the softening of images in one versus the other.
Thanks!
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PBD, I think you should try it with your own R5 if you aren't seeing it in images posted here on CR. It is disappointing to see photos we expect to be tack-sharp softened, but it is very good to know why it is happening.
This is a pretty good general discussion:
What is Shutter Shock and How to Mitigate It (photographylife.com)
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Well I will but if I shoot at 70mm with a 1/100 shutter speed I DO expect to see a bit blurry. It may not happen but there is a High possibility!
Another thing i forgot to mention, The AF of the R5 is nervous! Be aware to choose or to select the best AF for the situations.
I did had a shutter-shock problem on my Canon 7DmkII but on the R5 never saw it. But I will try
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So I went to the other thread and downloaded the full sized attachments that I do not believe are forum resampled, I believe only in line images are resampled.
Anyway, are we really saying at 100% crops from a 45mp camera this difference is an "issue"? To me the biggest differences are the contrast, WB, and exposure. The lighting was very different in the two shots as one had a person blocking a part of the window and that reduced glare and improved contrast a lot. The biggest 'issue' I see in comparing the two images is the subsequent difference in contrast, the WB change, the specular highlights and overall image brightness.
Anyway, are we really saying at 100% crops from a 45mp camera this difference is an "issue"? To me the biggest differences are the contrast, WB, and exposure. The lighting was very different in the two shots as one had a person blocking a part of the window and that reduced glare and improved contrast a lot. The biggest 'issue' I see in comparing the two images is the subsequent difference in contrast, the WB change, the specular highlights and overall image brightness.
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Ok, fair enough. I'm going to use a real test-pattern target with controlled lighting. Canon won't likely be persuaded by vitamin bottles and train schedules.
And then I'm going to postthem in a new thread, not buried in this one. later in this thread Anybody can comment and/or add new ones.
Any suggestions for optimal posting here?
And then I'm going to post
Any suggestions for optimal posting here?
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Do you have R5?
If yes, would you mind sharing us your own photo?
If no, would you mind just reading?
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So here is the thread at DPReview where they used a test target, equal lighting etc.
www.dpreview.com
I took the 'worst' example, 1/100 sec mechanical shutter, and did an accurate comparison with the ES version.
Can anybody seriously tell me 100% crops from a 45mp camera the differences illustrated amount to an issue?
Canon EOS R5 - shutter shock, IS, long exposure: Canon EOS R Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.
www.dpreview.com
I took the 'worst' example, 1/100 sec mechanical shutter, and did an accurate comparison with the ES version.
Can anybody seriously tell me 100% crops from a 45mp camera the differences illustrated amount to an issue?
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1/ No. I have used a couple but don't have any relevant 1/100 sec exposure comparison images.
2/ As above.
3/ No, that's not how forums work. Besides owning one wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the dissection of the images being used to support this notion of an "issue".
What is it you find so objectionable about my statements? I am using the data put forward to 'prove' there is an issue.
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You can not explain why 1/60s is better than 1/100s following your SLR shutter speed rules which sounds like trying to skip the shutter shock issue to me.
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The data you use is the data, my one isn't?
You will know the pain if you have the camera.
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I think the main question is, is this an "issue" or is it the normal results that are to be expected? For those expecting the mechanical shutter and the electronic shutter to produce the same result, your expectations are not realistic. Because there is shutter shock...the question is how much and is it really a problem unless you pixel peep?
And yes, there may be firmware fixes possible. My Olympus camera, for example, has a "shutter shock" setting that - when set to ON, the camera automatically switches to electronic first curtain for all shots under 1/320th of a second.
And yes, there may be firmware fixes possible. My Olympus camera, for example, has a "shutter shock" setting that - when set to ON, the camera automatically switches to electronic first curtain for all shots under 1/320th of a second.
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I guess I'm confused by this thread. While I don't normally shoot at wide-open apertures and usually use f8, can someone explain why I don't see this problem. I've attached two files, one the full-frame I shot at ISO 100, f8, and 1/60th with my R5 24-70mm f2.8L. The second is an enlargement of the model's eye taken from the original RAW image. This is mechanical shutter and you can see the individual eyelashes and hair. If I'm having shutter shock shouldn't the images not be sharp? This particular image was shot with a flash but I have other examples without a flash that are also sharp. Note: I had to resample the JPG down to 50% so the file wasn't too big.
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