Why R5 Mechanical shutter shock so serious? Amost makes it useless.

[Rzrsharp]

Well, subtle as the posted examples have been, Canon apparently is aware of the issue and considering options. I received an email from them last night implying that they are working on a fix. Here's a quote: "Thank you for your patience. We just wanted to touch base with you to let you know that our engineers are still researching your issue. They are working on a solution and we will follow-up once we receive an update from them. "

So, "Cheers" to our OP, Rzrsharp. See? 2020 really is a year in which anything is possible.

Thanks so much.
That is the greatest feedback from Canon.

 

[privatebydesign]

Well, subtle as the posted examples have been, Canon apparently is aware of the issue and considering options. I received an email from them last night implying that they are working on a fix. Here's a quote: "Thank you for your patience. We just wanted to touch base with you to let you know that our engineers are still researching your issue. They are working on a solution and we will follow-up once we receive an update from them. "

So, "Cheers" to our OP, Rzrsharp. See? 2020 really is a year in which anything is possible.

I wouldn’t hold your breath. I have been working with ‘Canon engineers’ for the last three weeks, it turns out the latest PS and LR have broken communications with imagePrograf large format printers. Despite this being classed as a priority fix for Canon and extensive support calls to the main Canon USA techs, and beyond, so far the only person who has actually gotten my Pro-2000 to print is me, by using an older version of PS.

 

[Chris.Chapterten]

@ 1/400S
There are the same.
View attachment 194654

I will not use mechanical shutter :-
1) lower than 1/400S if hand held
2) lower than 1/200S if on a tripod

Basically, R5's 14-bit mechanical shutter is 80% useless.
You can only enjoy 12-bit or 13-bit in a general shooting (Street photography, travel, wedding, studio) with EFCS or ES if you are critical to the blurry shutter shock.

EFCS is 14bit

 

[Aussie shooter]

@ 1/400S
There are the same.
View attachment 194654

I will not use mechanical shutter :-
1) lower than 1/400S if hand held
2) lower than 1/200S if on a tripod

Basically, R5's 14-bit mechanical shutter is 80% useless.
You can only enjoy 12-bit or 13-bit in a general shooting (Street photography, travel, wedding, studio) with EFCS or ES if you are critical to the blurry shutter shock.

Luckily many of us rarely shoot at such low shutter speeds so 80% useless is not a problem. Seriously. Just set it to mechanical. Problem solved. Fact is everyone desperately wanted IBIS, which means you wanted a sensor that was NOT solidly located. The consequence of that is going to be a sensor that is more prone to shutter shock. We got what we wanted and now we need to use our own work around or wait for canon to make that workaround automatic.

 

[Rzrsharp]

Luckily many of us rarely shoot at such low shutter speeds so 80% useless is not a problem. Seriously. Just set it to mechanical. Problem solved. Fact is everyone desperately wanted IBIS, which means you wanted a sensor that was NOT solidly located. The consequence of that is going to be a sensor that is more prone to shutter shock. We got what we wanted and now we need to use our own work around or wait for canon to make that workaround automatic.

IBIS On or OFF has no change to the shutter shock as I tested.
The shock is not from the vibration of the "floating" sensor, it's from the shutter (it's a new design which is 2-motor drive).

 

[Rzrsharp]

EFCS is 14bit

EFCS is 13bit at H+ mode.

 

[Aussie shooter]

IBIS On or OFF has no change to the shutter shock as I tested.
The shock is not from the vibration of the "floating" sensor, it's from the shutter (it's a new design which is 2-motor drive).

IBIS 'on' or 'off' is irrelevant to whether the sensor is 'floating'. Simply having IBIS means the sensor is not mounted solidly inside the camera body which means there will be more ability for it to move in reaction to any external influence. Whether it is a shutter or a bump from being knocked by a person.

 

[Rzrsharp]

Do

IBIS 'on' or 'off' is irrelevant to whether the sensor is 'floating'. Simply having IBIS means the sensor is not mounted solidly inside the camera body which means there will be more ability for it to move in reaction to any external influence. Whether it is a shutter or a bump from being knocked by a person.

Do you mean sensor will move when ibis is off? It will be big issue if it is.
Probably not. It will be locked firmly if ibis is off.

 

[koenkooi]

EFCS is 13bit at H+ mode.

No shutter mode in H+ will give you 14-bit.

 

[Rzrsharp]

No shutter mode in H+ will give you 14-bit.

Canon officially says it's 13-bit.

 

[Aussie shooter]

Do

Do you mean sensor will move when ibis is off? It will be big issue if it is.
Probably not. It will be locked firmly if ibis is off.

Yes. It will move even with IBIS off. ANY system that has movable parts is going to have SOME movement even when 'locked off'. It may be miniscule(and your examples certainly suggest it is miniscule) but it will be there. And from the sounds of things it is an issue faced by ALL cameras with IBIS regardless of the manufacturer.

 

[koenkooi]

[snip picture]
Canon officially says it's 13-bit.

That says:

• 14-bit with mechanical and EFCS
• 13-bit in H+
• 12-bit with ES

I don't see how that says that MS is 14-bit in H+

 

[Rzrsharp]

Yes. It will move even with IBIS off. ANY system that has movable parts is going to have SOME movement even when 'locked off'. It may be miniscule(and your examples certainly suggest it is miniscule) but it will be there. And from the sounds of things it is an issue faced by ALL cameras with IBIS regardless of the manufacturer.

I'd think it's like a car break mechanism.

 

[privatebydesign]

That says:

• 14-bit with mechanical and EFCS
• 13-bit in H+
• 12-bit with ES

I don't see how that says that MS is 14-bit in H+

Just another example of how people can see the same thing and come to different conclusions....

Of course only one of you is right and I read it as you do.

 

[Aussie shooter]

I'd think it's like a car break mechanism.

There is movement is car brakes. There is just not a 45mp cmos senor to record it. It very much seems that having IBIS means accepting that the sensor solidity is compromised a bit. And at those shutter speeds that issue is detected. So at the moment it will be a case of using a work around and very likely in the near future Canon will implement a firmware update that has an automated workaround. But it hardly makes the camera unusable. Just shoot at a higher shutter speed. The cameras have phenomenal iso performance so it is not like you will be sacrificing any great amount of image quality.

 

[Joules]

Basically, R5's 14-bit mechanical shutter is 80% useless.
You can only enjoy 12-bit or 13-bit in a general shooting (Street photography, travel, wedding, studio) with EFCS or ES if you are critical to the blurry shutter shock.

As Was pointed out to you, only the fully electronic shutter drops to 12 bit, and unless you are shooting in the fast burst modes, both mechani and first curtain electronic shutter are 14 bit.

The only downside to EFCS is reducing background blur in an unpleasant way at wide apertures and really fast shutter speeds.

As apparently you are doing 80 % work at slow shutter speeds, that should not be a factor for you most of the time. And I don't see why you would use the burst modes with such slow shutter speeds.

If you could stop trying to make an elephant out of a Mole, people would find it much simpler to relate to 'the issue' - which is not that you have to use the proper settings to achieve optimum sharpness, but rather that the body lacks an automatic setting for this particular parameter.

 

[Rzrsharp]

As Was pointed out to you, only the fully electronic shutter drops to 12 bit, and unless you are shooting in the fast burst modes, both mechani and first curtain electronic shutter are 14 bit.

The only downside to EFCS is reducing background blur in an unpleasant way at wide apertures and really fast shutter speeds.

As apparently you are doing 80 % work at slow shutter speeds, that should not be a factor for you most of the time. And I don't see why you would use the burst modes with such slow shutter speeds.

If you could stop trying to make an elephant out of a Mole, people would find it much simpler to relate to 'the issue' - which is not that you have to use the proper settings to achieve optimum sharpness, but rather that the body lacks an automatic setting for this particular parameter.

It sounds It's my problem don't know how to use the camera with the problem.
It's not me use such a slow shutter speed, it's the common speed. I don't know what the photos you take that are mostly faster than 1/400. Wild life or sports? Add up together, will you faster shutter guys count 1% of all users?
Why a patient needs to have specific sick to meet the doctors requirements, not should be the usual way, doctor see the patient what's the problem it is?

 

[AlanF]

I wouldn’t hold your breath. I have been working with ‘Canon engineers’ for the last three weeks, it turns out the latest PS and LR have broken communications with imagePrograf large format printers. Despite this being classed as a priority fix for Canon and extensive support calls to the main Canon USA techs, and beyond, so far the only person who has actually gotten my Pro-2000 to print is me, by using an older version of PS.

Have you contacted Adobe - they do actually provide decent support?

 

[Viggo]

I’ve also read it like electronic is always 12 bit. Mechanical is 14 bit up to 8 fps, and from 8-12 it’s 13 bit.

 

[Joules]

I’ve also read it like electronic is always 12 bit. Mechanical is 14 bit up to 8 fps, and from 8-12 it’s 13 bit.

Purely electronic shutter is different from electronic first curtain shutter though. The latter only drops in bit depth under the same circumstances as the mechanical shutter does as well.