Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
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dilbert said:
You are conveniently ignoring the fact that Nikon's sales also dropped significantly, and that since Canon has a greater marketshare than Nikon, Canon could lose more unit sales than Nikon yet still sell more cameras.
Plus, I thought you didn't care about sales figures and don't think they are relevant.
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I'm not sure that I even get the question.
Canon will release some high end models this year.
Nikon have announced one of their own suggesting it might be a bit better in some key areas but not really giving any great idea other than that.
Neither is giving much away.
So what is there for Canon to answer here?
Canon will release some high end models this year.
Nikon have announced one of their own suggesting it might be a bit better in some key areas but not really giving any great idea other than that.
Neither is giving much away.
So what is there for Canon to answer here?
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neuroanatomist said:
I think the fact that Canon has not rushed a 36mp camera to market is further anecdotal evidence that the D800 series have not been an out and out winner for Nikon.
A high mp FF camera seems to fall into two very different camps. On the one hand you have a few serious photographers who really will be able to use that potential resolution in their work, and then on the other hand the casual user who gets most pleasure by drooling over the size of images at 100% on the computer screen. Pleasure may turn to disappointment when they find they have to use the finest glass, stop down a couple, mount on a rock solid tripod, crop out the edges of the frame etc, etc.
My guess is that when Canon do introduce their high mp offering it will be a very high end camera. Then when the consumer is educated enough to understand why a 18 mp 1Dx is five times more expensive than a 40mp 9D we might see a high mp 'budget' camera.
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GMCPhotographics
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Sporgon said:
The great thing about the 5DIII and 1Dx is their image quality and frame rate. If we have a camera with a higher MP count, then the frame rate will drop. The current throughput for Dual Digic 5 is 225mb/s. This gives us a throughput which can be cut several ways, 12fps @ 18.1mp = 217mb/s. If we assume the same Dual Digic 5 chip set, 225mp / 5 fps 45 mp. If you want the higher MP chip then there's only one way the fps can go.
If the Canon develops Digic 6, generally a gain of 1.5x according to past upgrades, we get a potential figures of 340 mb/s, 12fps @ 28mp (nice) or 5fps @ 67.5 mp or 7.5fps @ 45mp.
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Ricku said:
Ricku, your desire for innovation and improvement from Canon is certainly valid. However, you should be equally upset with Nikon, Sony, Pentax, etc. for failing to provide an alternative that we find impossible to resist. Seriously, when the 1D4 had its early problems, Nikon did gain market share in that category. If the D600 were just a little better, it could have gained market share against the 6D. The D800 is less expensive than the 5D3 and many think it produces better photos. But it has its own problems, so hasn't gained market share.
Stop blaming the purchasers; rather, blame Nikon, Sony, et al for failing to produce a "killer" product that will force Canon to improve.
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jrista said:Dylan777 said:I'm sure you guys still remember this :
To be honest, I'm one of those thought Canon going to have something in vintage as well. Last time I check, Df didn't do welllllllll
I think it didn't do well because of the borked controls, not because it was "vintage". I'd welcome a Canon vintage body design, so long as it did not include the hideous stacked dial controls and...well, basically kept the phenomenal electronic controls and button placement that is now standard on Canon pro bodies, just in a nostalgic retro body design. And, yes, with out any video features...at all... ;o)
+1
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Memdroid said:
Could not agree more.
I own a 60D and some humble lenses (17-55/2.8, 50/1.4), and even though I would like to have better high-ISO IQ, more DR, faster FPS, AFMA etc, etc, etc, I am pretty sure that after all those years my entry-level camera still longs for a better photographer behind its viewfinder.
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I guess this was just a dumb joke, but seriously, Canon's consumer cameras should never be used as a gauge for it's pro lineup. Nikon is winning the MP race, and slightly better DR and noise control. But Canon is doing just fine. Aside from a 7Dii, what's there to want? The D800, IMHO, just makes bigger files. And it's no PhaseOne.
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unfocused
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tallrob said:
Very nicely and succinctly said. So, of course, I'm going to muck it up by adding to it.
We may think the "selfie" technology-based cameras are silly, but we are about the worst demographic to make that judgment. There is a very large segment of the consumer market that wants to use photography and social media to share (some might say over-share) virtually every aspect of their lives. Just look at the number of people on Facebook who take and share pictures of every restaurant meal they eat.
While that market segment might not care all that much about dynamic range or massive megapixels, they do want their pictures to be clear and sharp and their videos smooth and steady. Canon's trying to meet that market.
Canon's little Vixia Mini camcorders seem to be designed to compete with, or perhaps more accurately supplement, the incredibly popular GoPro line. From their promotional videos it is clear they are designed to allow dancers, musicians, skateboarders, etc. etc. to record themselves from a perspective other than the top of their heads. It's a market no one else seemed to be targeting and it's actually pretty innovative on Canon's part.
On the one hand, people complain about Canon not innovating, but on the other many of these same folks poke fun at clever and innovative niche market cameras that Canon develops. The point and shoot market is dead and every manufacturer has to either adapt or die. In nature, most experiments eventually fail and the critters go extinct. But, nature keeps on experimenting and gets enough right to keep on going.
Same is true of companies. Either adapt or die. Give Canon credit for trying to adapt.
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GMCPhotographics said:
Your math here is wrong. The DIGIC5+ is 250mb/s throughput. The full sensor pixel count is 19.1mp, because you have to account for the masked off border pixels as well as the 18mp of actual light gathering pixels. You also have to account for the mirror-locked up 14fps maximum frame rate, rather than 12fps. Canon's full data throughput on the 1D X is 500mb/s.
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Rick said:
Why is that an issue? Why is it necessary for Canon to "answer" ANYTHING from the competition? I feel like I just answered this in another thread...Canon has never directly competed model for model with their competition. Instead, Canon produces what their customers ask for, and so far, given their track record, they WILL release compelling products that Canon customers want in the years to come.
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unfocused
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Rick said:
At the risk of piling on here, I will pile on.
If there is any question, it ought to be why hasn't Nikon answered the 5DIII yet.
Been there, explained this before, but here goes:
The 5DIII was targeted to a real audience: wedding and event photographers. They wanted better autofocus and clean high ISO performance. Go back and read some of the threads from when the 5DIII was introduced and you'll see glowing comment after glowing comment from these photographers about how much they liked the 5DIII. The camera is a "must have" for many wedding photographers because it gives them a competitive edge – they can get shots that other photographers can't easily get.
This is a real market and in fact, it is one of the few large professional markets that exists today.
It so happened that in meeting that market, Canon produced a camera that many of us not in that business still find to be a highly desirable product. Take a look at the Amazon sales rankings. It's incredible that the 5DIII consistently ranks in the top 10 against cameras that sell for one-fifth its price. Having met the needs of a specific audience, Canon was able to expand the base to enthusiasts like myself (who are still a little shocked that we bought a camera this expensive).
Nikon introduced a camera designed to meet the pent-up demand of its buyers, who had suffered for years with cameras that had fallen behind in resolution. I think they resolved to fix that. Unfortunately, the D800 doesn't seem to have found a broader market. Once the pent-up demand of Nikon users was met, where could Nikon go for additional sales? Landscape and other photographers who want high-megapixels and slightly increased dynamic range simply do not constitute a large professional base. (How many professional full time landscape photographers live in your town? I live in the Midwest and I'm not aware of any in my city. Compare that to wedding photographers, which seem to be coming out of the walls around here.)
So, please, somebody give me a good business reason why Canon "needs" to answer the D800, because frankly I can't find one.
By the way...I still can't quite figure out why we are talking about the D800 when this thread is about the D4s – Nikon's low megapixel flagship. If the D800 sensor is so awesome, why is Nikon so uninterested in using it in its flagship?
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The D4S is in a sealed glass case at the CES... you can't touch it or use it... so for all practical purposes, it does not exist. At this point in time the appropriate Canon response would to take an empty 1DX shell, paint a 2 on the label (1DX-II), and seal it in a glass case where nobody could touch it.
Until a camera is available to buy/use, it does not exist.
Until a camera is available to buy/use, it does not exist.
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A Swedish Winnie the Poo (Nalle Puh)... Post 1, love anything but Canon, concerned with DR ... Give us a break :Nalle Puh said:
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tallrob said:
Yeah, I have to stop you there. The 7D is considered to have questionable IQ in some circles, so I don't get how the 7D II is some uber-desirable camera and the D800 "just makes bigger files". The D800 is far superior to the 7D in many areas, and the one that counts the most.
I really like Canon DSLR gear. I got into them because of their lenses, and I'm sticking with them. But the criticism we are seeing is justified (IE selfie-cam while the D800 mauls the universe unchallenged), and in some cases, entertaining.
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I think we've all got this backward.
Before 2012 Nikon had one camera that passed the 20MP mark, the D3X, which didn't come until more than a year after the 1DsIII, and was still later than the 5D2. Until the D800 the best full frame body Nikon had to offer for less than $5,000 was 12MP!
For three and a half years the 5D2 filled exactly the same position the D800 is in right now, though I dare say the difference between 12MP and 20MP is a lot more than what we see between the 5D3 and D800 today.
For three and a half years there was nothing to compete with the 5D2.
Canon is not the one playing catch up here.
Before 2012 Nikon had one camera that passed the 20MP mark, the D3X, which didn't come until more than a year after the 1DsIII, and was still later than the 5D2. Until the D800 the best full frame body Nikon had to offer for less than $5,000 was 12MP!
For three and a half years the 5D2 filled exactly the same position the D800 is in right now, though I dare say the difference between 12MP and 20MP is a lot more than what we see between the 5D3 and D800 today.
For three and a half years there was nothing to compete with the 5D2.
Canon is not the one playing catch up here.
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