justaCanonuser said:

Yes, but there are guys who recommend this camera exactly for wildlife, here is an example

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

I was running into that trap because I hadn't much time to make decision, and I already ask my wife to trade it in for a real camera such as Nikon's highly praised Z9. She can afford it.

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Can't watch YT videos at work
If that's what they recommended then I would discount them as a trustable source of advice...
But generally speaking, I'd consider wildlife the realm of any camera system's top offerings a priori, if budget allows.

As a 3D/VR enthusiast: the more resolution the better! Especially when it comes to stereoscopic video: 8K video output would be a game changer vs the very limited 4K of the existing R7.

My hopes for the R7 MKII were basically
35 or more MP ~ Being able to crop wildlife is a nice thing and more necessary than most I think realize.
CFx ~ In my opinion the biggest failing of the OG R7 was buffering issues according darn near every review I watched.
I feel that AF has increased significantly since the R7 release so one can hope it will be on Par with the R6 III R5 II etc
I know the odds of it being a gripped body are likely the same as Nat Geo calling me to shoot for them but one can dream ( on both accounts ) But reality is IF they want this to be a Flagship Wildlife body then I feel that is more important than most would think. Points of failure sealing wise and the improved battery life that come along with the gripped body are important to people in the field.
the other noted things EVF Digic etc are all important and I think Canon needs to decide what they want from this is it meant to be "THE go to wildlife body" or is it meant to fit in between the R6 III and R8 user base wise?
I am stoked to see where it ends up as I need a backup to the R5 even though its a weird choice to go to a Crop sensor the area of photography I do for "me" most is wildlife so I would love a serious Crop option.
I do fear that if it has the features I list it would be more expensive than an R6 III and not sure canon wants that.

I apologize for three consecutive posts I am very excited for this camera and hope this wasn't all too much

Zadak said:

I own it and many other L series RF lenses, and I think it's useless

I would take a 1.4x compatibility any day over it

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Interesting. I still use my old EF 100mm f/2.8 L IS USM (not yet upgradet) and I never missed that it can't a 1.4x TC, but I use it quite frequently with extension rings to get closer for more magnification...

roby17269 said:

TL;DR: the Z5 II is a great camera unless you use it for a use case it was not made for.
WOW. Somehow I think I could say the same for most cameras….

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Yes, but there are guys who recommend this camera exactly for wildlife, here is an example
I was running into that trap because I hadn't much time to make decision, and I already ask my wife to trade it in for a real camera such as Nikon's highly praised Z9. She can afford it.

To make it short: dial me in for an upgrade. Personally, I am not interested in APS-C lenses. I need this camera for tele + macro photogaphy, both with FF lenses, because I use them also with my R5 II. Just a beefier body with Canon's standard button layout and much less rolling shutter would be already enough reasons to upgrade for me.

DocInfoSci said:

I have found modern EF lenses to be as good as RF equivalents when the entire package is considered: lens glass, digital post-processing, and mechanical operation.

Yes, a few RF lenses apparently blow their EF predecessor out of the water (the 50mm 1.2 by all accounts, but I haven't tried the RF edition) but my experience is most pedestrian L editions are only marginally better in terms of image output — not enough to justify the price gap by any means when the EF predecessor remains available new with warranty.

Throw in patent expirations and general R&D for equivalent yet patent side-stepping innovation and I'd say that the 3rd party landscape with AF on an EF mount basis can be more than competitive when price gets thrown in. Most of us are probably happy with very sharp at a $1,000 whatever below extremely sharp before post-processing even takes place.

Oh, and full time manual mechanical override remains awesome once grass, twigs, and ballon strings enter the view...

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DocInfoSci said:

In my experience the advantages for RF is speed of focusing ( especially in low light ( I do a lot of dimly lit music shows ) focus retention and hit rates trend to improve in most situations. However I do agree too that in the case of a lens like the EF 70-200 2.l IS when it hits the IQ is simply superb adapted to my R5. My RF 85 1.2 is vastly better than my EF counterpart was ( even the very great EF 85 1.4 ) . My BIGGEST frustration since moving to the RF has been the glass is so so so cost prohibitive and as you very wisely noted when you take the entirety of it Post processing etc. I agree it is a hard "sell" to spend the money. For me as a pro it comes down to the fact that in the wild ( not when in my studio fwiw ) the convenience of NOT fussing with adapters and the bulk/weight of it all in my bag is the harder part of the trade off using EF glass. .

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mangobutter said:

You say this "what's the point in getting this body other than to say you have the latest and greatest Canon crop camera

and then this?
"all canon has for their crop system thus far is crappy little low end slow (small aperture) kit zooms."
the comments in my opinion directly contradict each other?

Most wildlife shooters are shooting FF high end glass as it has superior durability and weather sealing.
Broketographers like myself make due with either adapted EF Glass like the Siggy 150-600 or other similarly priced glass.
I think for most wildlife pros the advantage of throw and durability are likely most important. I am very happy they are taking the R7 seriously ( it seems ) this time around.

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mangobutter said:

I feel Canon realizes the 7d was a professional wildlife focused camera body. The original offering of the R7 was, in my opinion very poorly thought out.
Canon from what I am seeing definitely has begun to distance themselves from the "cripple hammer etc" negativity. I do wish they would go all in on this camera and make it a gripped body ( significant increase in battery life and less points of failure in harsh environments, again pro gear mindset ) I am sure they wont make it gripped, however if they really want to be all in on "the best ASP-C wildlife platform I think that is more important than likely others do and I highly doubt canon cares about my thoughts ...

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Forgive my improper formatting as I am new to responding in this format. Also since typed words do not inflect please know this is not meant to take a run at your original comment, just my thoughts on it. Be well

mangobutter said:

I'm not really sure what the point of 40mp crop sensor is if Canon doesn't really have any dedicated high-end APS-C lens ecosystem. Best case scenario, such a high res aps-c sensor (high pixel density) is optimal with the latest 70-200Z and RF 24-105 2.8 or other super high end lenses... i mean sure you can use this with any lens, but at that point, what's the point in getting this body other than to say you have the latest and greatest Canon crop camera. Without any attempt at making high end APS-C lenses, i don't know what Canon is doing here with this sensor. hopefully they have lenses in the works or will open up to 3rd party support?

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8K UHD my friend.
R5 and R5 II have a 4500MP sensor, can record 8K DCI video, it means 8192×4320, for camera ,sensor need about 8192*5460, about 4500 MP sensor.
8K UHD video means 7680×4320 resolution, for camera, sensor need about 7680*5120, about 3900~3950MP sensor.
Yes, my Chinese compatriot E8M did said: "R7II will record 8KUHD rather than 8KDCI, in order to avoid competing directly with the R5 series."

Bob Howland said:

Third, if the R7-2 is optimized for bird watching at long ranges, wouldn't that type of photography be done with FF lenses anyway? The size and weight of long lenses tends to be dominated by the front elements.

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You have hit the nail on the head. For birding etc with long telephoto lenses, the front elements are the same, and the natural image circle at the back from a long telephoto will be so large to cover FF as well as APS-C.

DhlcadR6 said:

Not stacked with 40fps isn't a good idea. Unless the 15fps mechanical shutter stays(and no shutter shock), I rather take lower MP stacked CMOS.

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Theoretically assuming it is in like a R6mkiii body or similar I imagine the shutter will be upgraded and much better

Bob Howland said:

Does Canon see high quality EF lenses and Metabone/Meike speed boosters as a serious threat?

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I have found modern EF lenses to be as good as RF equivalents when the entire package is considered: lens glass, digital post-processing, and mechanical operation.

Yes, a few RF lenses apparently blow their EF predecessor out of the water (the 50mm 1.2 by all accounts, but I haven't tried the RF edition) but my experience is most pedestrian L editions are only marginally better in terms of image output — not enough to justify the price gap by any means when the EF predecessor remains available new with warranty.

Throw in patent expirations and general R&D for equivalent yet patent side-stepping innovation and I'd say that the 3rd party landscape with AF on an EF mount basis can be more than competitive when price gets thrown in. Most of us are probably happy with very sharp at a $1,000 whatever below extremely sharp before post-processing even takes place.

Oh, and full time manual mechanical override remains awesome once grass, twigs, and ballon strings enter the view...

mangobutter said:

I'm not really sure what the point of 40mp crop sensor is if Canon doesn't really have any dedicated high-end APS-C lens ecosystem. Best case scenario, such a high res aps-c sensor (high pixel density) is optimal with the latest 70-200Z and RF 24-105 2.8 or other super high end lenses... i mean sure you can use this with any lens, but at that point, what's the point in getting this body other than to say you have the latest and greatest Canon crop camera. Without any attempt at making high end APS-C lenses, i don't know what Canon is doing here with this sensor. hopefully they have lenses in the works or will open up to 3rd party support?

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There already are Rf-s third party lenses. Sigma has a bunch

Things we don't know:
First, what is the licensing fee that Canon is charging Sigma for the APS-C R-mount lenses that Sigma makes? I own seven of them and they are all excellent (except maybe the 16-300, which is merely very good for what it is).
Second, does the agreement between Canon and Sigma prevent Sigma from introducing new EF mount lenses, to prevent Sigma from doing what Meike is doing? Does Canon see high quality EF lenses and Metabone/Meike speed boosters as a serious threat?
Third, if the R7-2 is optimized for bird watching at long ranges, wouldn't that type of photography be done with FF lenses anyway? The size and weight of long lenses tends to be dominated by the front elements.

I had an R7 for a long time that I finally sold. Great camera for the money but the rolling shutter for action is a dealbreaker. The VF is also too small. The AF is actually very good once it's tweaked properly, so if they upgrade that, great. I would love to see a larger sensor that has a much faster readout speed to knock down the rolling. I would buy a M2 with anything close to the above specs. The M2 would be great with the RF200-800mm for wildlife.

Yeah, my family started with crop systems back in 2005 with the Rebel but realized shortly after that full frame was inevitable / king for personal interests. It was just a matter of saving. So we stopped buying crop lenses about three in, sold those, and only bought full frame lenses going forward. Now we can switch with impunity. Alas, that does cost more. Ignoring the double wallet punch if someone invested in a crop ecosystem and then down the road added a full frame to the mix, I could see a core trinity set of crop lenses being nice. But what about simply grabbing an EF-S 18-135, which is still available new?

all canon has for their crop system thus far is crappy little low end slow (small aperture) kit zooms.

I'm not really sure what the point of 40mp crop sensor is if Canon doesn't really have any dedicated high-end APS-C lens ecosystem. Best case scenario, such a high res aps-c sensor (high pixel density) is optimal with the latest 70-200Z and RF 24-105 2.8 or other super high end lenses... i mean sure you can use this with any lens, but at that point, what's the point in getting this body other than to say you have the latest and greatest Canon crop camera. Without any attempt at making high end APS-C lenses, i don't know what Canon is doing here with this sensor. hopefully they have lenses in the works or will open up to 3rd party support?

jimim said:

Anyone get it yet that pre ordered. I was in a shop yesterday that has them in. I’m pre ordered from adorama so I didn’t want to mess things up.

Jim

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Jim,
Have you (or any others) been shooting much with you 6.3? Are you getting this thermometer while shooting stills?
I changed the settings in video to high to hopefully remove this from popping up at times, but rather odd since there is no temp issue to display.

I assume the 2 holes on the bottom and the 2 matching sized holes on the top are cooling for video, and with the battery grip, they are blocked, but no warning to display and shooting stills at the time, and not in huge volume either.

AlanF said:

If you are often reach-limited and generally cropping to APS-C and below, a 39 Mpx sensor is a huge advantage over a 34-30 Mpx FF with almost twice the linear resolution under optimal conditions.

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Agreed!

I don't see why at all this would be differentiated from the R6 beyond the sensor.

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As in, give me an R6 with the crop sensor...

neuroanatomist said:

I'll believe that when I see it. You initially suggested that prices will "tumble" and I doubt that will happen. Come down, yes. Drop precipitously, no.

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Yes, they'll tumble. Current prices are not sustainable. Even without the AI bubble bursting, we will see over the next few years an increase in production capacity because companies want to take advantage of the high prices. Then there will be more supply than demand, and prices will drop. This has happened many times in the past, though not *quite* to the current extreme.

I'm glad that my current setup will last me for at least 5 years without need of upgrade. It does everything I need, and I don't game so my needs aren't going to suddenly change. If need be, I can stretch it longer. I lucked out on the timing, and my current home servers are also spec'd well for the next quite a few years. Time to buckle down, cancel subscriptions, and wait everything out.

DocInfoSci said:

The EVF and body dissuaded my family from a purchase. An EVF and body about the same as an R6 would make this much more enticing as a detail-oriented "tele" camera. In fact, I don't see why at all this would be differentiated from the R6 beyond the sensor.

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If you are often reach-limited and generally cropping to APS-C and below, a 39 Mpx sensor is a huge advantage over a 34-30 Mpx FF with almost twice the linear resolution under optimal conditions.

The EVF and body dissuaded my family from a purchase. An EVF and body about the same as an R6 would make this much more enticing as a detail-oriented "tele" camera. In fact, I don't see why at all this would be differentiated from the R6 beyond the sensor.

• 8.5 Stop IBIS (5 Axis)
• CFe/SD Card slots
• Higher resolution EVF (R7 is 2.36m)
• A larger form factor (R6 size)

The upgrades above look really good to me and would bring the R7 on par with the R6 III in those categories, assuming the EVF gets the same 3.69m as the R6 III and the form-factor also includes having a simialar wheels and buttons layout and enables compatibility with the BG-R20.

Now the item below

• DIGIC Accelerator (Conflicting)

would put the R7 II above the R6 III in terms of the AI AF processing capabilities.

neuroanatomist said:

Alan's point notwithstanding, there is a difference between quality and quantity. Sounds intensity is measured in decibels (dB), but consider the difference between 40 dB of a stream babbling past you as you sit in quiet contemplation for a couple of hours, versus 40 dB of an infant whimpering for a couple of hours as you sit next to the crib. Same quantity of sound, very different quality. In the latter case, I might be inclined to take a break, perhaps letting Samuel L Jackson read the bedtime story).

P2P is quantifying the total read noise, regardless of whether it shows up in the image as luminance noise or chroma noise. The latter is much more visually distracting, and in your example the Sony clearly has a larger, coarser component of it in the image.

Image Noise: Examples and Characteristics

www.cambridgeincolour.com

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Cambridge in colour is simply the best. The author has some superb local photos on the web too: https://pbase.com/compuminus/cambridge