mangobutter said:

I'm not really sure what the point of 40mp crop sensor is if Canon doesn't really have any dedicated high-end APS-C lens ecosystem. Best case scenario, such a high res aps-c sensor (high pixel density) is optimal with the latest 70-200Z and RF 24-105 2.8 or other super high end lenses... i mean sure you can use this with any lens, but at that point, what's the point in getting this body other than to say you have the latest and greatest Canon crop camera. Without any attempt at making high end APS-C lenses, i don't know what Canon is doing here with this sensor. hopefully they have lenses in the works or will open up to 3rd party support?

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8K UHD my friend.
R5 and R5 II have a 4500MP sensor, can record 8K DCI video, it means 8192×4320, for camera ,sensor need about 8192*5460, about 4500 MP sensor.
8K UHD video means 7680×4320 resolution, for camera, sensor need about 7680*5120, about 3900~3950MP sensor.
Yes, my Chinese compatriot E8M did said: "R7II will record 8KUHD rather than 8KDCI, in order to avoid competing directly with the R5 series."

Bob Howland said:

Third, if the R7-2 is optimized for bird watching at long ranges, wouldn't that type of photography be done with FF lenses anyway? The size and weight of long lenses tends to be dominated by the front elements.

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You have hit the nail on the head. For birding etc with long telephoto lenses, the front elements are the same, and the natural image circle at the back from a long telephoto will be so large to cover FF as well as APS-C.

DhlcadR6 said:

Not stacked with 40fps isn't a good idea. Unless the 15fps mechanical shutter stays(and no shutter shock), I rather take lower MP stacked CMOS.

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Theoretically assuming it is in like a R6mkiii body or similar I imagine the shutter will be upgraded and much better

Bob Howland said:

Does Canon see high quality EF lenses and Metabone/Meike speed boosters as a serious threat?

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I have found modern EF lenses to be as good as RF equivalents when the entire package is considered: lens glass, digital post-processing, and mechanical operation.

Yes, a few RF lenses apparently blow their EF predecessor out of the water (the 50mm 1.2 by all accounts, but I haven't tried the RF edition) but my experience is most pedestrian L editions are only marginally better in terms of image output — not enough to justify the price gap by any means when the EF predecessor remains available new with warranty.

Throw in patent expirations and general R&D for equivalent yet patent side-stepping innovation and I'd say that the 3rd party landscape with AF on an EF mount basis can be more than competitive when price gets thrown in. Most of us are probably happy with very sharp at a $1,000 whatever below extremely sharp before post-processing even takes place.

Oh, and full time manual mechanical override remains awesome once grass, twigs, and ballon strings enter the view...

mangobutter said:

I'm not really sure what the point of 40mp crop sensor is if Canon doesn't really have any dedicated high-end APS-C lens ecosystem. Best case scenario, such a high res aps-c sensor (high pixel density) is optimal with the latest 70-200Z and RF 24-105 2.8 or other super high end lenses... i mean sure you can use this with any lens, but at that point, what's the point in getting this body other than to say you have the latest and greatest Canon crop camera. Without any attempt at making high end APS-C lenses, i don't know what Canon is doing here with this sensor. hopefully they have lenses in the works or will open up to 3rd party support?

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There already are Rf-s third party lenses. Sigma has a bunch

Things we don't know:
First, what is the licensing fee that Canon is charging Sigma for the APS-C R-mount lenses that Sigma makes? I own seven of them and they are all excellent (except maybe the 16-300, which is merely very good for what it is).
Second, does the agreement between Canon and Sigma prevent Sigma from introducing new EF mount lenses, to prevent Sigma from doing what Meike is doing? Does Canon see high quality EF lenses and Metabone/Meike speed boosters as a serious threat?
Third, if the R7-2 is optimized for bird watching at long ranges, wouldn't that type of photography be done with FF lenses anyway? The size and weight of long lenses tends to be dominated by the front elements.

I had an R7 for a long time that I finally sold. Great camera for the money but the rolling shutter for action is a dealbreaker. The VF is also too small. The AF is actually very good once it's tweaked properly, so if they upgrade that, great. I would love to see a larger sensor that has a much faster readout speed to knock down the rolling. I would buy a M2 with anything close to the above specs. The M2 would be great with the RF200-800mm for wildlife.

Yeah, my family started with crop systems back in 2005 with the Rebel but realized shortly after that full frame was inevitable / king for personal interests. It was just a matter of saving. So we stopped buying crop lenses about three in, sold those, and only bought full frame lenses going forward. Now we can switch with impunity. Alas, that does cost more. Ignoring the double wallet punch if someone invested in a crop ecosystem and then down the road added a full frame to the mix, I could see a core trinity set of crop lenses being nice. But what about simply grabbing an EF-S 18-135, which is still available new?

all canon has for their crop system thus far is crappy little low end slow (small aperture) kit zooms.

I'm not really sure what the point of 40mp crop sensor is if Canon doesn't really have any dedicated high-end APS-C lens ecosystem. Best case scenario, such a high res aps-c sensor (high pixel density) is optimal with the latest 70-200Z and RF 24-105 2.8 or other super high end lenses... i mean sure you can use this with any lens, but at that point, what's the point in getting this body other than to say you have the latest and greatest Canon crop camera. Without any attempt at making high end APS-C lenses, i don't know what Canon is doing here with this sensor. hopefully they have lenses in the works or will open up to 3rd party support?

jimim said:

Anyone get it yet that pre ordered. I was in a shop yesterday that has them in. I’m pre ordered from adorama so I didn’t want to mess things up.

Jim

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Jim,
Have you (or any others) been shooting much with you 6.3? Are you getting this thermometer while shooting stills?
I changed the settings in video to high to hopefully remove this from popping up at times, but rather odd since there is no temp issue to display.

I assume the 2 holes on the bottom and the 2 matching sized holes on the top are cooling for video, and with the battery grip, they are blocked, but no warning to display and shooting stills at the time, and not in huge volume either.

AlanF said:

If you are often reach-limited and generally cropping to APS-C and below, a 39 Mpx sensor is a huge advantage over a 34-30 Mpx FF with almost twice the linear resolution under optimal conditions.

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Agreed!

I don't see why at all this would be differentiated from the R6 beyond the sensor.

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As in, give me an R6 with the crop sensor...

neuroanatomist said:

I'll believe that when I see it. You initially suggested that prices will "tumble" and I doubt that will happen. Come down, yes. Drop precipitously, no.

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Yes, they'll tumble. Current prices are not sustainable. Even without the AI bubble bursting, we will see over the next few years an increase in production capacity because companies want to take advantage of the high prices. Then there will be more supply than demand, and prices will drop. This has happened many times in the past, though not *quite* to the current extreme.

I'm glad that my current setup will last me for at least 5 years without need of upgrade. It does everything I need, and I don't game so my needs aren't going to suddenly change. If need be, I can stretch it longer. I lucked out on the timing, and my current home servers are also spec'd well for the next quite a few years. Time to buckle down, cancel subscriptions, and wait everything out.

DocInfoSci said:

The EVF and body dissuaded my family from a purchase. An EVF and body about the same as an R6 would make this much more enticing as a detail-oriented "tele" camera. In fact, I don't see why at all this would be differentiated from the R6 beyond the sensor.

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If you are often reach-limited and generally cropping to APS-C and below, a 39 Mpx sensor is a huge advantage over a 34-30 Mpx FF with almost twice the linear resolution under optimal conditions.

The EVF and body dissuaded my family from a purchase. An EVF and body about the same as an R6 would make this much more enticing as a detail-oriented "tele" camera. In fact, I don't see why at all this would be differentiated from the R6 beyond the sensor.

• 8.5 Stop IBIS (5 Axis)
• CFe/SD Card slots
• Higher resolution EVF (R7 is 2.36m)
• A larger form factor (R6 size)

The upgrades above look really good to me and would bring the R7 on par with the R6 III in those categories, assuming the EVF gets the same 3.69m as the R6 III and the form-factor also includes having a simialar wheels and buttons layout and enables compatibility with the BG-R20.

Now the item below

• DIGIC Accelerator (Conflicting)

would put the R7 II above the R6 III in terms of the AI AF processing capabilities.

neuroanatomist said:

Alan's point notwithstanding, there is a difference between quality and quantity. Sounds intensity is measured in decibels (dB), but consider the difference between 40 dB of a stream babbling past you as you sit in quiet contemplation for a couple of hours, versus 40 dB of an infant whimpering for a couple of hours as you sit next to the crib. Same quantity of sound, very different quality. In the latter case, I might be inclined to take a break, perhaps letting Samuel L Jackson read the bedtime story).

P2P is quantifying the total read noise, regardless of whether it shows up in the image as luminance noise or chroma noise. The latter is much more visually distracting, and in your example the Sony clearly has a larger, coarser component of it in the image.

Image Noise: Examples and Characteristics

www.cambridgeincolour.com

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Cambridge in colour is simply the best. The author has some superb local photos on the web too: https://pbase.com/compuminus/cambridge

Del Paso said:

"Great non L 28mm"?
The RF 28mm f/2,8 is already as sharp, if not sharper, than my Leica M 28mm f/2,8 Asph !
This little lens is a jewel. (Please have a look at TDP's review)

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No need for review, I have it with me right now, travelled through India, Bhutan, Djibouti and Somalia with it.
I love it for it's sharpness, size and weight. At the same time I find it lacking aperture and AF speed.
At a minimum, I wish for 28/1.8 in the format of the 24/1.8 and 35/1.8, but my dream is something one step above with better AF, but below L series.
But we kinda discussed this before

Kiton said:

You are very right about the lug concerns, I check often and when the strap starts to fray, I swap it out, generally for a Nikon all black no branding on the strap.

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For me, it's less about the strap fraying (though that does happen, it did to a Blackrapid strap of mine which they replaced for free even though it was 5 or 6 years old). More about being able to quickly and easily move the attachment point from body to lens, and also to remove it when using a tripod.

InternalRevenue said:

... I definitely don't want that awful left side switch of the Full Frame bodies.

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I remember the youtube critics hated this, but I also love this as a R7 owner. R8 has to flick it from the left side, R50/R10 needs to turn the mode dial...

Not stacked with 40fps isn't a good idea. Unless the 15fps mechanical shutter stays(and no shutter shock), I rather take lower MP stacked CMOS.

Uneternal said:

Can somebody explain how Sony always get these low read noise ratings from PhotonstoPhotos when their images look like that?

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Alan's point notwithstanding, there is a difference between quality and quantity. Sounds intensity is measured in decibels (dB), but consider the difference between 40 dB of a stream babbling past you as you sit in quiet contemplation for a couple of hours, versus 40 dB of an infant whimpering for a couple of hours as you sit next to the crib. Same quantity of sound, very different quality. In the latter case, I might be inclined to take a break, perhaps letting Samuel L Jackson read the bedtime story).

P2P is quantifying the total read noise, regardless of whether it shows up in the image as luminance noise or chroma noise. The latter is much more visually distracting, and in your example the Sony clearly has a larger, coarser component of it in the image.

Ordered a 45mm 1.2 in Europe at the beginning of December, out of stock everywhere and the shop where i ordered said two weeks ago, that Canon delayed shipments and they have no idea when the lenses will arrive. Does anyone know what's the matter? No ETA in sight, I had hoped to receive it for Christmas (perfect family gathering lens), but now I'm worrying I have to wait further months for a this plastic fantastic (outside AND inside )

neuroanatomist said:

I have the still-in-package neck straps for all my cameras. I don’t mind the Canon ones, I just don’t like neck straps and avoid them if at all possible. In the event that I want to use one, I certainly don’t want it threaded through the lugs. Instead, I connect a Blackrapid strap with the QD connector to the body or lens foot, depending on the lens.

I do have the Canon E1 hand strap threaded through the right-side lug on my R1 (with the bottom attached to the lug on the RRS base plate).

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I get that, but I am too set in my ways to change now and have been using Billingham since I discovered these pads in 1994.
It was Christopher Morris (Blackstar and now Vll) that introduced me to them and I have never looked back.

You are very right about the lug concerns, I check often and when the strap starts to fray, I swap it out, generally for a Nikon all black no branding on the strap.

Uneternal said:

Can somebody explain how Sony always get these low read noise ratings from PhotonstoPhotos when their images look like that?

View attachment 227412

I don't get it, digital looking noise, color blotches all over the image and yet the numbers say that Sony allegedly has ~15.5 DN read noise and Canon has ~25.3 DN.
Does Sony somehow deceive the algorithms that measure the noise? Or am I the only one who thinks that Canon's noise looks finer and more film-like?

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This is the third time I have posted this in the past few days. Read the the first line of the footnote under the photonstophotos chart: