Canon RF 105mm f/1.4L VCM on the Way?

wwYAPODFC.


b4? Lol. I’d been using the above abbreviation for ‘yet another prediction of doom for Canon’ for well over a year when I responded with it to this post:



That was in 2014. At that point, Canon had been leading the ILC market for 11 successive years. Now they are up to 23 years of leading the market.

But I’m sure this time you’re correct. They are doomed, Charlie.
w
Canon as a company does more than just consumer-facing stuff, hence is why I said it as an ironic gotcha to whoever thinks I was touting that it is doomed as a company. So you just proved my point really. A group of people on these forums like to make fun of people criticizing Canon's decisions and path and all they are met with is "haha look another Canon is doomed poster" and "Oh this was said X years ago"... as if past performance is indicative of future prospects.

Anyway, just because Canon is and will be fine as a company, that doesn't mean the market of consumer-grade imaging solutions is not getting more and more captured by the like of DJI and Insta360. To be fair, it is a good thing overall. For Canon? It needs to get moving with updates, software integrations (no that doesn't mean AI necessarily), and in general great stand-out hardware
 
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Anyway, just because Canon is and will be fine as a company, that doesn't mean the market of consumer-grade imaging solutions is not getting more and more captured by the like of DJI and Insta360. To be fair, it is a good thing overall. For Canon? It needs to get moving with updates, software integrations (no that doesn't mean AI necessarily), and in general great stand-out hardware
Well then, I’m sure you can support your assertion that Canon’s consumer imaging profit is dropping because it is, “…getting more and more captured by the like of DJI and Insta360.” Their financial reports don’t show that (profit and unit sales generally increasing, including last year when the overall ILC market dropped by 1%)…but you know better. Yeah.

The internet is full of ‘experts’ like you, who believe their opinions are facts and know better than Canon what Canon ‘must do’…or else. Or else, what? Exactly.
 
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Canon as a company does more than just consumer-facing stuff, hence is why I said it as an ironic gotcha to whoever thinks I was touting that it is doomed as a company. So you just proved my point really. A group of people on these forums like to make fun of people criticizing Canon's decisions and path and all they are met with is "haha look another Canon is doomed poster" and "Oh this was said X years ago"... as if past performance is indicative of future prospects.
I don't think that's a fair representation. I think there's a bunch of longstanding forum members who have seen it all before, and a regular conveyor belt of new posters who say silly things that boil down in most cases to "I want X, Canon should make X, and if they don't it will hurt them" (sometimes phrased the other way - "if they make X they will sell really well!"). And it is gently - and sometimes not so gently - pointed out that just because you want something doesn't mean making it would be a good business move for them. And that usually gets pushback in the form of deflection, ad hominem attacks, tantrums, etc. As for past performance not being indicative of the future - why should we believe you, naysayer number 10000, and not trust in the continued performance of the big company in question? As I've asked many people over the years, what is different now, what is special about your request?
the market of consumer-grade imaging solutions is getting more and more captured by the like of DJI and Insta360.
A statement like this would need to be backed up by stats/figures.
To be fair, it is a good thing overall. For Canon? It needs to get moving with updates, software integrations (no that doesn't mean AI necessarily), and in general great stand-out hardware
They release updates regularly. But I suspect (going back to your original statement about not being excited by them) what you really mean is, they need to do things you personally like. Which explains the response you've had so far on here.
 
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Ah yes, the 2 bullies in charge are hard at work here. Canon is still a very large company and will take years for them to take a hit.

Chinese manufacturers are still ramping up, and the leaps DJI and Insta360 are making every release are quite impressive. As I said previously, I didn't even consider buying a gimbal the previous years, but man did they improve a lot and have a lot to offer for a fraction of the cost.

Again, not saying Canon is doomed now, and as a company it won't go under, but it will probably fall hard in the consumer space within the next years. Sony sensors are at least in every phone and other imaging devices for consumers, Canon... not so much. Canon is the Intel of consumer cameras (for consumer camera space), and as I said, without some exciting stuff in the pipeline, the next 5-10 years will be very telling. Either make things cheaper, or offer something nobody else can.

Gimbals these days offer a great 24-240mm coverage, that is very light and great for content creation. Software has good integration so you can churn out edits quickly. It's what the masses need/want. Will there still be a niche with Mirrorless camers? Absolutely. But will it capture as much consumer space as it used to? Not really, not without changing their ways
 
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Mostly portraits and candids, but not only portraits.

The obvious use is photographing people from far enough away that you are not really in the scene. People, kids, and animals often stop reacting to the camera, and the expressions become more natural.

But my personal raison d’être for the RF 135mm f/1.8L is compositional control. The narrow field of view forces careful thinking about foreground, subject, and background. A step or two left, right, forward, or backward can completely change the geometry, compression, and layering of the image. Getting low to photograph children or animals at eye level can make the lens feel especially immersive.

To me, the lens is about connection, compression, and separation. It works for portraits, candids, pets, some wildlife, and even landscapes.

I use my old EF 100mm f/2 in a similar way, but the 135mm imposes a different discipline and produces a different feel.

Here are two recent examples I have handy on my phone, a dog portrait and a landscape.

The 135 isn’t a lens for every subject, it’s a lens that reveals the world a very particular way and rewards us when align and think that way. I encourage you to take it out of the box and mount it up. Try a day with only the 135mm and see if it changes how you think and see. It truly is a marvelous lens and I hope its design philosophy finds its way into other new Canon primes like the rumored RF 100 1.4L design.
When is a 135 1.8 useful?
When 85 is too short and 200 is too long and 2.8 is too slow ;)

Seriously though, as most primes, it is a specialized tool. If one likes compression and isolation with nice bokeh and one can control the distance from the subject, then it is a great option. It works great at parties when kids are roaming around. I like the 135 1.8 (I have it) as other fast primes because I believe that they challenge me to try different things. And I like its rendering like I like the rendering of the 50 1.2 and 85 1.2... But it is not a lens that I would take traveling / hiking (e.g.) since in those occasions I value versatility more.
 
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Ah yes, the 2 bullies in charge are hard at work here.
As I said above, the pushback usually amounts to ad hominem and/or a tantrum. People politely disagreeing with you - and I cannot see how I could have been more polite - is not bullying. That is a sad reflection on your attitude, and makes me wonder how you function in real life.
the leaps DJI and Insta360 are making every release are quite impressive.
Did you have any figures or are we resorting to vibes? You're welcome to your opinoons but you surely see that isn't enough.
Again, not saying Canon is doomed now, and as a company it won't go under, but it will probably fall hard in the consumer space within the next years.
Ok but people said that before, for years and years. What has changed, specifically?
Sony sensors are at least in every phone and other imaging devices for consumers, Canon... not so much.
That has been the case for years too. Why would that matter to a discussion about ILCs?

These questions are now rhetorical btw. You can answer them but I've seen enough to know you're best muted. Doubtless you will consider that bullying too. Go wild.
 
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Ah yes, the 2 bullies in charge are hard at work here. Canon is still a very large company and will take years for them to take a hit.
No one has bullied you. It was fair to ask for some kind of data which backs your assertions, and you didn't provide any. If you're just looking for a place to post hot takes about the doom of Canon and success of a different camera company, I would suggest going to those companies' forums, as you will get less pushback there, due to being amongst more people who are looking for that type of validation.
 
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Ah yes, the 2 bullies in charge are hard at work here.
Ah yes, when your opinion is challenged and data to support your assertions are requested, you fall back on ad hominem attacks. I take that to mean that you are completely unable to provide data to support your assertions.

Chinese manufacturers are still ramping up, and the leaps DJI and Insta360 are making every release are quite impressive. As I said previously, I didn't even consider buying a gimbal the previous years, but man did they improve a lot and have a lot to offer for a fraction of the cost.

Again, not saying Canon is doomed now, and as a company it won't go under, but it will probably fall hard in the consumer space within the next years.
Yeah, that's what people said on this forum 15 years ago, 10 years ago, and 5 years ago. Those people were wrong...but you're right? Mmmmkay.

What you're really saying is that you know more about making and selling cameras than Canon. With no evidence to back up such an obviously ridiculous claim. Thus the ad hominem attacks...it's all you have to fall back on.
 
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Man, I was skipping this one with the thought of VCM 24-105 = USM 24-105, except with a VCM. No overwhelming shift in capability — for me. Thus, boring.

Was I wrong! All y'all been busy.

I very much agree with the Canon is far from doomed perspective, but as a guy who loves the RF cameras and feels meh about most RF lenses (vs the EF ones I have) I get the vibe about glory days.

Well, almost get it. If one browses the EF lens museum the first half of the releases look very experimental — clearly Canon was feeling out what new tricks they could do vs. the old FD mount. Equally clearly, over time, a number of those experiments were abandoned for a few well honed tricks, and then those tricks were hammered into a brilliant glass series. There were things for people who made money and people who were just in it for the pleasure.

I strongly feel that the RF lens series is in this phase: there's a load of experimentation going on. Features have been inconsistent. The cost is very high because Canon keeps doing unique things, and unique means less economic spread + more risk. I don't think it was until the VCM primes rolled around that a singular driving design language and potential for factory efficiency showed up in the RF series, regardless of the more video (per Canon) focus (yeah, pun intended; always intend your puns.)

For me? I'm going to let others pay for the experiments. The EF glass is solid, and the RF bodies supercharge the lenses. Right now the RF froth means the economics and "glory" (for what I do, enjoy) is in the most mature of the elder series — but I have no doubt the RF line will settle down and we'll see the EF excellence in terms of whole package become more universally apparent. I might not be excited about the RF lens offerings, but I am thrilled that many of my colleagues here (and elsewhere) are because their purchases and enthusiasm is paving the way for a mature RF line to exist. And we are starting to see hints of the dust settling, like with VCM and the more consistent presence of functionally relevant switches for both photography and videography.

I took a quick swing at Google on some of this sentiment and KEH had the following to say:

I really like this line:
Are Canon EF Lenses Obsolete? Not Even Close. [...] Think of EF as complete rather than discontinued. It’s a mature system with decades of proven lenses — many of which are still optically excellent and widely available as high-quality used lenses. Canon RF lenses are where innovation is happening. Canon EF lenses are where value lives. Both can produce exceptional images.

The updates have been coming, however. I prefer a camera to come fully baked, but honestly most of the firmware for the R6 and R3 have been solid bangers for functionality — and I hear the same things for other cameras as well. Likewise, Canon has been playing catch-up with some lens capabilities via firmware as well, such as bringing proper full-time manual focus override to their digital gear systems. Better late than never, but it is happening.

I see where people might not be happy with how things line up for them today, but I don't think any of the big names have it all worked out. And for the gaps I think it's totally fine to look to vendors that fill meaningful gaps. Need a really tiny camera for the pocket? iPhones, Androids, and Fuji have you covered. No shame. Need cheaper? The matured EF catalog remains highly available both new and used, and brings award winning capability to your hands.

Not making excuses for Canon — I seriously miss a few things myself — but I don't think they're sitting around doomed, either. Rather, I think like many good companies they're taking care of the essentials (and today that's a lot of video) so that they can pay for the more esoteric things that tickle our niche desires.
 
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None of the other VCM lenses has IS, so this one won't have IS either.
Why won't this popular zoom range have IS just because it's VCM? There are both IS and non-IS USM, as are there STM lenses.

The primes are specifically intended to address video on Canon's mirrorless series: similar size in terms of physical dimensions, filter threads, and weight for videography so you can swap them out with efficiency. If lenses hang out on a gimbal (etc.) then IS becomes less of an issue, moreso when IBIS is present. Many EF primes ditch IS as well, but overlapping zooms often maintain IS. Primes require some planning, whereas zooms are about flexibility — and IS is all about flexibility.

I bet Canon throws in a nano-USM, as is practice, and supplies buttons/switches/gears like the 20-50 PZ. The primary marketing claim will probably be about better video suitability for the kids who can scrape for this lens, which I bet lands in the CAD $2,500 range, but not the mega-pricey Z lenses (north of $4k CAD). It would likely handle a lot of on-the-go hybrid work. From the perspective of economy, it would continue to move their quality drive to VCM as the long-term USM replacement — so iterating towards a more focused and reusable part supply. In the final EF decade it was all USM (pro) and STM (budget), by and large, so VCM (with nano-USM as a detail) plus STM would probably take up the same roles and factory space for a more mature RF stable. I further predict that version II editions of L-classes lenses that were saddled with STM at the outset will have VCMs swapped in, whereas the more budget options will be STM. Why? STM gets it done, but VCM is buttery.
 
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Ah yes, when your opinion is challenged and data to support your assertions are requested, you fall back on ad hominem attacks. I take that to mean that you are completely unable to provide data to support your assertions.


Yeah, that's what people said on this forum 15 years ago, 10 years ago, and 5 years ago. Those people were wrong...but you're right? Mmmmkay.

What you're really saying is that you know more about making and selling cameras than Canon. With no evidence to back up such an obviously ridiculous claim. Thus the ad hominem attacks...it's all you have to fall back on.
Nokia did know more than anyone else about selling mobile phones. Now they have 0% market share in consumer segment.
 
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Ah yes, the 2 bullies in charge are hard at work here. Canon is still a very large company and will take years for them to take a hit.

Chinese manufacturers are still ramping up, and the leaps DJI and Insta360 are making every release are quite impressive. As I said previously, I didn't even consider buying a gimbal the previous years, but man did they improve a lot and have a lot to offer for a fraction of the cost.

Again, not saying Canon is doomed now, and as a company it won't go under, but it will probably fall hard in the consumer space within the next years. Sony sensors are at least in every phone and other imaging devices for consumers, Canon... not so much. Canon is the Intel of consumer cameras (for consumer camera space), and as I said, without some exciting stuff in the pipeline, the next 5-10 years will be very telling. Either make things cheaper, or offer something nobody else can.
Thus isn’t the first time that canon and other dlsr (at the time) went through a fundamental change in the market. The rise of mobile phone cameras decimated the compact camera and low end dlsr market. It took some years but phones continue to improve their computational photography and some people only upgrade because of better cameras in them.
Chinese competitors are also entering the mainstream market and dominating in some specific niches. New Chinese lenses are innovative and will contour to improve over time.

None of this is news to anyone

This is all to say the canon has survived before and are a competent company to work through future shifts in the market.
They have a good enough balance sheet to continue their r&d innovation for some time to come.
Canon is not cheap but buyers still see value in their products
Nikon has struggled though
 
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Nokia did know more than anyone else about selling mobile phones. Now they have 0% market share in consumer segment.
Yes, and you forgot Kodak that knew more about selling film than anyone else in the market. What paradigm shift is currently occurring that is analogous to smartphones or digital cameras? Hint: gimbal cameras aren’t it.

Also, hundreds of market-leading companies have successfully navigated significant market shifts. The YAPODFC whiners toss out Nokia and Kodak, but they are exceptions. In fact, as @David - Sydney points out, Canon has already demonstrated their ability to successfully navigate a significant market shift (albeit not a paradigm shift) – the transition from DSLR to MILC.

But sure…Nokia! Kodak! That proves Canon is doomed, right? LOL.
 
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Yes, and you forgot Kodak that knew more about selling film than anyone else in the market. What paradigm shift is currently occurring that is analogous to smartphones or digital cameras? Hint: gimbal cameras aren’t it.

Also, hundreds of market-leading companies have successfully navigated significant market shifts. The YAPODFC whiners toss out Nokia and Kodak, but they are exceptions. In fact, as @David - Sydney points out, Canon has already demonstrated their ability to successfully navigate a significant market shift (albeit not a paradigm shift) – the transition from DSLR to MILC.

But sure…Nokia! Kodak! That proves Canon is doomed, right? LOL.
Maybe a more fitting analogy would be what's happening to GoPro... there have been cases of companies pushed out of markets even without paradigm shifts.

But in any case Canon as a company seems solid and they do not rely entirely on camera sales (although I would not consider printers as a long-term insurance either, luckily they have other alternatives), and, historically, they have indeed demonstrated that they know how to navigate the camera market, my personal lack of satisfaction notwithstanding. Nikon is much more vulnerable in this sense (and people in other forums keep saying that Nikon is d00med too 🤪 )

While eventually Canon will fail, I do not see that happening any time soon, and certainly not because some people here disagree with their current choices... and I include myself in that group :oops:
 
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