We were wrong, all of your Canon mirrorless dreams are likely coming true soon

[HarryFilm]

I love Canon Rumors - and yes, I have recently been spending plenty of time dreaming about Canon's mirrorless future ... lol ...

This latest rumor/ news & possible quite different direction has me thinking that the following are possible mirrorless bodies Canon might go with for the next few years:

• A $750 M50 (being the 'great value' mirrorless, to entice people to the EOS-M line, also being the new standard for a few more 'Rebel / XXXD' DSLR bodies)
• A $1200 M5II - with notably more specs than M5 (so it's close to a true 80D / 90D equivalent); retaining current size (but with fully articulating screen)
• A $1900 FF mirrorless (the specs of this rumour) - having everything a 6DII has, and a bit more, roughly competing with the Sony A7iii and Nikon Z6
• A $3500 FF mirrorless (the 5D4 'equivalent') - that may be Canon's 'top of the line' FF mirrorless for some time - competing with the Nikon Z7

The 'gaps' - that I see from the above line up (that may be filled in future years, rather than in the near future)

• A $1800 '7D' mirrorless equivalent (i.e. APS-C sized sensor with on sensor DAC for superior IQ than the current 7Dii), but a body similar to the size of the new Nikon Z line (i.e. allowing very good balance for larger / adapted lenses too). Will probably herald a significant step forward in autofocus (at least well above the M5)
• A $4000 FF high resolution mirrorless, basically the 5DS/R, with similar specs to the $3500 mirrorless I list above, but some key differences too
• A $7500 FF high speed 'pro' monster, with stunning AF and durability, larger size again to other FF mirrorless.

It could be that Canon come out with the $1800 "7D" mirrorless before the M5II, AND/OR they will come out with the 5DS/R equivalent before the 5D4 equivalent.
I expect to see there being the use of QPAF (or DPAF with much improved tech) in the relatively near future for Canon mirrorless, i.e. superior low light AF, increased initial acquisition and tracking speed.

For the FF mirrorless mount, my guess is that Canon will use a mount that is automatically fully compatible with EF lenses; but it may also have the ability to have slightly smaller lenses (particularly for certain wide / fast glass).

Let's see how we go! It's an exciting time. Thanks, CR Guy and CR Community

PJ

====

You've hit the nail on the head more than you might think.........

 

[HarryFilm]

"......No one has fed the troll, good job guys. It was interesting to see him POST again. ....."

---

It's been a while....been away on "Important Business".

I actually DO KNOW MUCH MORE what's coming down the pipeline than you do and THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE FACT!

and THAT FACT has been used by me for the last few months now and it is SWEEEEEEEEEEET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your comments are what they are and only a photo/video of what's sitting on my desk can change that AND you ain't gettin' it,

although, you CAN take a look at SOME of it's output as per the photos in my posting but other than that you'll have to wait.......

AND.....in case you're wonder HOW the photos were made to look that good on DCT JPEG, the key is using smaller block sizes and specially made human eye-centric quantization tables than the normal JPEG quantization tables which does give a slight rise in photo size BUT really makes a visual difference.
AND YES I was the one who designed them! That human-eye-centricity towards compression is also applied to my 16-bits per channel Wavelet/JPEG-2000 frequency-based quantization parameters which is why A BIG GIANT MEDIA COMPANY is gonna finally give you what you want in a large sensor COMBINED stills and video camera!

 

[RayValdez360]

If a $1900 camera isnt for pros who is it for. Rich kids?

 

[neuroanatomist]

If a $1900 camera isnt for pros who is it for. Rich kids?

Who is the 6-series for?

 

[takesome1]

Who is the 6-series for?

Do all your kids have one yet?

 

[ethanz]

If a $1900 camera isnt for pros who is it for. Rich kids?

There are lots and lots of people with enough disposable income to be able to afford a camera that expensive, even if it is only a hobby. At least this is the case in the USA and some of Europe.

 

[ahsanford]

Why IBIS? Because IBIS and OIS working together are better than choosing one or the other.....

Panasonic went that way....
Olympus went that way......
It looks like Nikon is going that way....

Why not Canon?

The quick comeback is that Canon is sitting at 49% of ILC units without IBIS and tends to know what it is doing. (I don't say that backhandedly, I"m just pointing out the obvious.)

Canon may believe, or possibly even have market data to back up the following:
(these are theories, I don't present them as fact)

• IS on lenses is more profitable for Canon
• IS on lenses lets them keep body prices (i.e. standard production costs) down
• Lens IS is more effective than IBIS, and that Canon can demonstrate that to consumers -- either in number of stops, the convenience of defeating it / tweaking its performance with a switch on the barrel, etc.

That said, they may roll out IBIS on FF mirrorless and say 'the EVF changes what is needed' and sell that story. We'll see. But Neuro may be right that IBIS isn't coming. EOS M still doesn't have mechanical all-purpose IBIS yet -- just the electronic version for video, ya?

- A

 

[RGF]

EF mount? or EF-M mount? If the former, the bottom will be "as thick as a brick", perhaps with dual cards and a reasonable battery

 

[ahsanford]

If a $1900 camera isnt for pros who is it for. Rich kids?

There are plenty of folks who get cameras at this price point:

• Canonites who use high performing SLRs as their daily driver but want a smaller option for travel, walkabout, casual shooting, etc.
• Enthusiasts like many here that want a smaller/simpler way to get access to a good FF sensor
• Kids to wish to outdo the internet with their life, travels, etc., 'Going to start a social media empire' millennials
• People who read Engadget or Wired
• Bored dads
• People starting their own businesses that require online content and want stuff to look sharp (Etsy folks, pop-up restauranteurs, etc.)
• Older folks who gave up bigger SLRs because they were too big/heavy to bring anywhere

Put another way, if the 6D1 / D610 / A7 I and II didn't sell well, this '$2k but not pro' price point would have died off as a failed experiment. The fact that more cameras are being made in this price point imply that units are selling, and selling well.

So why did this enthusiast get a 5D3 in 2012? I wasn't wealthy, but I had money in my pocket that I didn't blow on prestige-y things I didn't need: I drove a paid off Honda, owned a home I could afford and the money was there. A better camera than my T1i made sense because I was constantly bumping into its limits, and at that time, the 5-series was the only FF option under $7k (the 6D1 wasn't out yet). I briefly thought about the 7D1, but I valued IQ and low light over fps. So I got a 5D3 and never looked back.

- A

 

[3kramd5]

Canon kept the 1Dx announcement buried very well before its release. The expectation of the masses was a 1Ds IV up until a week or so before release.

A year before its release I remember a forum member who claimed to have knowledge of the release. What he claimed would happen did happen. The 1D line was combined and the 5D line went on to be pushed as a studio and high resolution camera. He was ridiculed by many on the forums at the time.

It is not surprising that Canon can keep a secret up until the date gets close.

10 bucks says they don’t secretly have a 48X36 8K sensor that will read out 60 times a second, much less a camera system designed around it.

(I know, I’m a big risk taker)

 

[AJ]

I remain unconvinced we'll see IBIS from Canon, after their 'educational' materials touting the benefits of lens-based IS.

Me too. Have there been any IBIS patents from Canon?

 

[ahsanford]

Me too. Have there been any IBIS patents from Canon?

But as I've definitively shown, no IBIS = total failuresauce. It's in my chart, so it has to be true.

​

- A

 

[Silverstream]

There are plenty of folks who get cameras at this price point:

• Canonites who use high performing SLRs as their daily driver but want a smaller option for travel, walkabout, casual shooting, etc.
• Enthusiasts like many here that want a smaller/simpler way to get access to a good FF sensor
• Kids to wish to outdo the internet with their life, travels, etc., 'Going to start a social media empire' millennials
• People who read Engadget or Wired
• Bored dads
• People starting their own businesses that require online content and want stuff to look sharp (Etsy folks, pop-up restauranteurs, etc.)
• Older folks who gave up bigger SLRs because they were too big/heavy to bring anywhere

Put another way, if the 6D1 / D610 / A7 I and II didn't sell well, this '$2k but not pro' price point would have died off as a failed experiment. The fact that more cameras are being made in this price point imply that units are selling, and selling well.
- A

Everything you list above can easily be done with a crop camera except of course the second item with access to a FF sensor.

Before I got into photography, I thought amateurs were nuts to buy expensive cameras honestly. I am on far more of a tight budget than you and the cost of a new 5DmIII is more than I have spent on a car since the 80's. I'm kind of simple and cheap I guess.

The sales success I see with the 6D series is all those who are pro level but newer to photography or simply have less sales volume. The moms who try to have a side business shooting. Or the new pro who is moving up to FF. Its what I did. I eventually moved up to a 5DmkIII and a MKIV and also replaced that original 6D with the mkII. The 6D mk II is my main backup camera now but it also brings different features to it like the articulating screen which is very helpful for receptions when you hold the camera up high to shoot over and down on people.

Personally, I don't use the dual slot on the mkIII or mkIV for real time backups. It was a habit I got in from the mkIII which doing this on that camera caused a write speed slowdown so the buffer became filled more easily. I am very careful with my cards and have never had an issue with one. I also shoot events generally with two cameras (and second shooters) so worse case scenario, I will still have images from one of them. So one slot does not really bug me as a pro.

But I will ask who buys 6Ds at the camera store next week when I put down my deposit on this new camera.

 

[3kramd5]

Me too. Have there been any IBIS patents from Canon?

Not that I’ve seen, however that doesn’t preclude an implementation.

Canon has in the past revealed technology after launch, and it also has plenty of money and a willingness to license technology when it makes sense to.

 

[mppix]

Imagine this does 10fps with full AF/shutter capabilities (as opposed to shutter locked, with battery grip, and saying a spell).
Imagine a fast and reasonably large EVF and an articulating screen

This may very well be a true fotocamera a la Canon (as opposed to hybrid video something). I believe it in part BECAUSE this seems slightly underwhelming, get the reviewers whining and fill forums just to emerge as the gold standard a year later. IMO, it is also a hit directed where it hurts Sony the most (A7III).

First rumor in a while that gets to my AQS.

Some other notes
- 4k 30fps and 1080p 60fps points to a crop 4k (similar to 5D4)
- A hybrid EF mount is still possible (mounts native EF lenses and new "intruding" lenses)

 

[ahsanford]

- A hybrid EF mount is still possible (mounts native EF lenses and new "intruding" lenses)

We've kicked this around on another thread. Have a look?

​

- A

 

[mppix]

The quick comeback is that Canon is sitting at 49% of ILC units without IBIS and tends to know what it is doing. (I don't say that backhandedly, I"m just pointing out the obvious.)

Canon may believe, or possibly even have market data to back up the following:
(these are theories, I don't present them as fact)

• IS on lenses is more profitable for Canon
• IS on lenses lets them keep body prices (i.e. standard production costs) down
• Lens IS is more effective than IBIS, and that Canon can demonstrate that to consumers -- either in number of stops, the convenience of defeating it / tweaking its performance with a switch on the barrel, etc.

That said, they may roll out IBIS on FF mirrorless and say 'the EVF changes what is needed' and sell that story. We'll see. But Neuro may be right that IBIS isn't coming. EOS M still doesn't have mechanical all-purpose IBIS yet -- just the electronic version for video, ya?

- A

Agree, it may very well be a video-only software IBIS. Still, I think there are bigger questions about this cam (mount and AF speed/reliability).

 

[mppix]

We've kicked this around on another thread. Have a look?

View attachment 179949​

- A

Nice graphic! Not sure about the equal size assumption tough.. Short lenses are probably (much) smaller if put closer to the sensor. My guess is a 28 f2.8 could pretty much fit entirely in the body. If only there was an E-mount 28 f2.8
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...cyhRfxSKgiWLozTkOM_FxNXwFhoCFWAQAvD_BwE&smp=y

 

[Talys]

Who is the 6-series for?

Haven't you seen Crazy Rich Asians? (I haven't but I've been told it's pretty funny).

 

[Talys]

Everything you list above can easily be done with a crop camera except of course the second item with access to a FF sensor.

Before I got into photography, I thought amateurs were nuts to buy expensive cameras honestly. I am on far more of a tight budget than you and the cost of a new 5DmIII is more than I have spent on a car since the 80's. I'm kind of simple and cheap I guess.

The sales success I see with the 6D series is all those who are newer to photography or simply less volume. The moms who try to have a side business shooting. Or the new pro who is moving up to FF. Its what I did. I eventually moved up to a 5DmkIII and a MKIV and also replaced that original 6D with the mkII. The 6D mk II is my main backup camera now but it also brings different features to it like the articulating screen which is very helpful for receptions when you hold the camera up high to shoot over and down on people.

Personally, I don't use the dual slot on the mkIII or mkIV for real time backups. It was a habit I got in from the mkIII which doing this on that camera caused a write speed slowdown so the buffer became filled more easily. I am very careful with my cards and have never had an issue with one. I also shoot events generally with two cameras (and second shooters) so worse case scenario, I will still have images from one of them. So one slot does not really bug me as a pro.

But I will ask who buys 6Ds at the camera store next week when I put down my deposit on this new camera. Who buys 6Ds?

I bought a 6D on launch day for the articulating screen on a full frame. I'd trade 20 megapixels for the articulating screen any day of the week, twice on weekdays or weekends