Canon EOS R5 Mark II to arrive before EOS R1? [CR2]

AlanF

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The DSLR refresh cycle has ended. With mirrorless, product cycles can be shortened.
The R5 is the only one with the older processor at this point.
R10, R50, R8, R7, R6II, R3 all have it.
They probably don't want to continue with those older parts for a long time either, better to be more streamlined.
"The Canon EOS R6 Mark II is the replacement for the original R6 camera and it brings a new sensor with a 20% increase in resolution, plus a new processor for faster continuous shooting and enhanced subject-detection, better video and a host of other improvements."

They all have no recording limits for video with a temperature indicator, same newer AF interface on all of them.
They didn't do much with regards to cooling, but the new processor deals with heat much better and also consumes less power, since the R6II and R8 have increased battery life over the R6 and RP.
Just common sense for Canon to equip everything after the R3 with the newer version.
The R10, R50, R8, R7, R3 are not described on the TDP site as having a new processor, only the R6 II. As @koenkooi says, the other features like AF interface are most likely firmware differences or non-processor.
 
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Please tell me from where you know that the R10, R50, R8, R7, R6II, R3 all have a newer Digic X processor than has the R5.
I am not sure about the R3 but Canon reps have stated that those other cameras have a newer Digic X processor.
B & H and some other stores do state that the R3 has an "Updated Digic X processor"
Although I do not see that mentioned on Canon's website.
 
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I am not sure about the R3 but Canon reps have stated that those other cameras have a newer Digic X processor.
B & H and some other stores do state that the R3 has an "Updated Digic X processor"
What does that mean, though? I recall that there were a whole bunch of 'new' and 'newly developed' 18 MP APS-C sensors used in successive bodies.
 
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unfocused

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We are still about a year out from Canon’s normal refresh cycle.

The DSLR refresh cycle has ended. With mirrorless, product cycles can be shortened.
The R5 is the only one with the older processor at this point.
R10, R50, R8, R7, R6II, R3 all have it.
They probably don't want to continue with those older parts for a long time either, better to be more streamlined.
I strongly suspect that with Canon's decades of experience they have a pretty good idea of what the optimal refresh cycle is. I also strongly suspect that refresh cycles are driven mainly by Canon's research into consumer spending and getting the optimal return on investment, rather than technology.

Perhaps they have determined that a shorter cycle is more profitable. We don't know that. I simply stated the fact, that based on past practice, we are about a year out from the normal refresh cycle. It's certainly possible that Canon could decide to do things differently, but your comments aren't compelling.
 
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Jethro

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Canon has been quite clear that the X in Digic X is a letter and not a roman numeral.
I am not so sure they are going to still change the name every time they upgrade image processor.
Maybe they will.
Sure, and I was being flippant with the 'Digic XI' comment. But I find it hard to imagine that Canon Marketing won't want their next gen processor (ie not just the next tweaked one) to have a nice impressive new name to emphasise how much better (and more valuable justifying the higher $ price) it makes the new body which contains it. Whenever that ends up being.
 
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usern4cr

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Not sure why you are so impatient. Most releases from one generation to the next are minor - especially as the tech matures. The Olympus E-M1 mark III that "took so long" that you gave up was released only 3 years and 2 months after the mark II. Canon releases are often 4 years apart, as has been mentioned. Canon cameras are arguably the easiest to use and set up. (I say this as someone who has used Sony, Nikon and Olympus cameras (my Olympus OM-1 is probably my most used camera, before that, I also owned the E-M1 mark II). I think they know far better than any forum participant what the good ideas are.
Waiting 3+ years is long for me. I don't know what is "expected" for you, so you can have your own opinion on that.
I have found that the EM1_II was easier to setup and use than my R5. That's my opinion as an owner of both. You have your own evaluation so I respect your opinion on it. I do find that the R5 & lenses give me appreciably better photos, but at a much higher cost and a loss of mobility & ease of use.
If Canon knew "far better than any forum participant what the good ideas are" then I, and others, wouldn't be griping on how they should add this or that feature which is only a firmware update. There are many things they could do better, and if they had a regular way to accept & acknowledge input from users then they would be better off for it. FWIW, I have found all manufacturers I've used to have the same issue with ignoring common users, so it's not just Canon I'm talking about regarding that.
 
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AlanF

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I am not sure about the R3 but Canon reps have stated that those other cameras have a newer Digic X processor.
B & H and some other stores do state that the R3 has an "Updated Digic X processor"
Although I do not see that mentioned on Canon's website.
That is so vague: "newer" or "updated" are not defined as newer than what or updated from, it could mean newer or updated than the processor before the Digic X. Even if it it is newer than the first Digic X it doesn't say in what way it is "newer" or "updated". I have as much faith in these statements as I do from politicians.
 
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AlanF

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Canon has been quite clear that the X in Digic X is a letter and not a roman numeral.
I am not so sure they are going to still change the name every time they upgrade image processor.
Maybe they will.
They have given a different designation in the past, like adding a + for minor upgrades, eg Digic 4+, 5+, 6+.
 
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That is so vague: "newer" or "updated" are not defined as newer than what or updated from, it could mean newer or updated than the processor before the Digic X. Even if it it is newer than the first Digic X it doesn't say in what way it is "newer" or "updated". I have as much faith in these statements as I do from politicians.
Might be an overlocked or binned DIGIC X.
 
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If Canon knew "far better than any forum participant what the good ideas are" then I, and others, wouldn't be griping on how they should add this or that feature which is only a firmware update.
Perhaps some here have suggested that, but if so I don’t recall reading that claim.

The claim usually made (and frequently made, by me at least), sounds sort of like what you are saying, but with a critical difference – namely, that Canon knows far better than any forum participant what the majority of users want (or think would be a good idea, if you’d rather phrase it that way).

There are lots of suggestions made for features, and certainly the people making them think they’re good ideas for features that are useful…to them. If they’re among a small minority of users who want that particular feature, that doesn’t make the idea less good. But it does mean it’s far less likely that Canon will implement it.

KISS is still a thing. If Canon added every feature suggested by users, the menus would have Byzantine complexity, and that would negatively impact the UI for the majority of users.
 
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Probably haven't heard about it, it's called common sense. There are more players in the mirrorless market, more new models coming out every year in many different categories - which as you may have not guessed, may have different product cycles.
Jup... Common sense.
In the last decade ILC market has shrunk. The technology has matured... Why isn't Canon releasing new cameras like crazy???
Especially now that cameras don't have mirrors slowing down product cycles.
 
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Ahh yes. That dang mirror was really preventing them from releasing new camera models sooner.
You don't seem to understand. It has less to do with construction and more to do how today's cameras market looks through consumers's eyes (in a world dominated by smartphones) and also how quickly newer parts are available for manufacturing. Sony has seemed to adopt to this quite well, and I don't see why all the others would not follow to compete, probably in a middle-state that is not as quick as it was in the early days or mirrorless but also not as slow as it was in the DSLR era.
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MILCs are more like smartphones, e.g. upgrading them frequently is more incentivized by some new technology, whether that's a new sensor (with smartphone-like processing features like handheld HDR), processor (AI, better energy efficiency), new batteries, new screens. (That's something Sony can do any time, or in Canon's case they always make some tweaks to their bodies, so they could add things like full-size HDMI)
The R1 is likely to be the first representative of the new generation, but after that, some of its features will start to tickle-down to the rest of the range even though this generation is still quite new.
In the last decade ILC market has shrunk.
It's more about the present than the past...
 
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Would be lovely if was fabbed using a 5nm, 4nm or 3nm node process. Would help improve power consumption & battery life.
Absolutely but the chances that Canon has access to that level of technology in TMSC (currently the only one that can do that level) is very low. Apple/Samsung etc and major customers have bought up capacity big time. Supply chains are just about getting back to "normal".
The number of Digic X chips needed is tiny in comparison. Canon could buy new printers from AMSL for their internal fab though the cost for 2nd tier equipment is still high.

There could be a bigger change in 2-3 years time when all the extra fab capacity comes online due to national security concerns. Europe, Japan, US etc are all spending big to be somewhat self sufficient.
 
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The R10, R50, R8, R7, R3 are not described on the TDP site as having a new processor, only the R6 II. As @koenkooi says, the other features like AF interface are most likely firmware differences or non-processor.
Unless Canon calls the processor a new name indicating a generational change, we don't have an insight into what changes have been made
The only real comparison we can make is the CIPA numbers being a standardised test for comparison.
50% improvement with the rear screen and ~20% improvement with the viewfinder. A big improvement one way or the other!

R6
With LCD Approx. 510 shots (at 23°C)
With Viewfinder Approx. 380 shots (at 23°C)
R6ii
With LCD Approx. 760 shots (at 23°C)
With Viewfinder Approx. 450 shots (at 23°C)
 
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Sony has seemed to adopt to this quite well,
To me the long release cycles are how Canon and Nikon allowed Sony to catch up.
Canon did not really respond to the a7 III until the R6.
They responded to the a7 IV pretty quickly.
With a quick release cycle and several model they can only fall behind a few years.
Canon still seems to be on a four year cycle with the 1 series which has some folks looking at the a1 and Z 9.
 
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AlanF

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Unless Canon calls the processor a new name indicating a generational change, we don't have an insight into what changes have been made
The only real comparison we can make is the CIPA numbers being a standardised test for comparison.
50% improvement with the rear screen and ~20% improvement with the viewfinder. A big improvement one way or the other!

R6
With LCD Approx. 510 shots (at 23°C)
With Viewfinder Approx. 380 shots (at 23°C)
R6ii
With LCD Approx. 760 shots (at 23°C)
With Viewfinder Approx. 450 shots (at 23°C)
We don't know whether those improvements are due to the processor or from other power saving methods. But, the main point under discussion is whether the R5 has an older version processor than the Digic X in the R10, R50, R8, R7, or R3.
 
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koenkooi

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Unless Canon calls the processor a new name indicating a generational change, we don't have an insight into what changes have been made.[...]
When Digic X was introduced Canon said something along the lines of "Digic X is a family of processors" and "We aren't going to name different versions differently."
AFAICT they haven't repeated that message after that so I don't know if they are going to stick with it. If they do, we get to speculate a lot more here :)
 
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