- Status
Jumping to 14-bit was a nice improvement, but for super-fast cameras, the amount of extra data passing through would reduce FPS without some other compensatory technology.
Medium format doesn't usually have more than a frame or two per second so it can process more data and not have to worry about filling/emptying a buffer.
The upcoming 4K DSLR could incorporate that if it were designed as a medium format and/or video competitor.
Medium format doesn't usually have more than a frame or two per second so it can process more data and not have to worry about filling/emptying a buffer.
The upcoming 4K DSLR could incorporate that if it were designed as a medium format and/or video competitor.
Upvote
0
N
Neeneko
Guest
CrimsonBlue said:
This is a good example of why I have been grumpy at Canon lately. With the increased focus on framerate and video features, they are moving away from making stuff like this feasible. I would MUCH rather have a 16 bit camera then something designed for speed (AF,framerate,video,etc).
Upvote
0
N
Neeneko
Guest
psolberg said:
This is kinda the cost of a 'runaway success'.. the 5D2 was so successful as a multimedia device, now anyone who wants to get funding for their department in any DSLR manufacturer has to explain how their design fits in to the 'obvious wisdom' of marketing.
Part of the problem though is customers tend not to realize just how much additional cost this type of feature ads I commonly here 'but you are getting video for free, just don't use it'. If more professional clients complained about the opportunity cost of the feature, Canon might listen more.
Upvote
0
I think if they were going to put 16 bit in the 5DX then they would have put it in the 1DX. If that tech was available they would have done it already. IMHO
Obviously bitrate is the biggest issue here. At 6.9 fps I don't see them squeezing 16 bits into the next 5d.
Someday though we will have 16 bit color. Just not this round.
Obviously bitrate is the biggest issue here. At 6.9 fps I don't see them squeezing 16 bits into the next 5d.
Someday though we will have 16 bit color. Just not this round.
Upvote
0
R
RedEye
Guest
psolberg said:
I agree. canon has been busying converting its customers into videographers...like it or not. I support a split. Put competitive video but focus on stills. go chase RED away from me.
[/quote]
+1 for each of you, I agree. There needs to be a body that remains in the camera still photo business.
Upvote
0
Is 14 bit only also not because of the noise? As I remember two lowest bits are just simply cut off because they are not useful in current dslr sensor technology - they are not able to provide 16 bits resolution.
Upvote
0
Y
Yoshiyuki Blade
Guest
What else is bit depth good for other than simply increasing the amount of possible colors? More wiggle room to do fancy PP? It seems that 14-bit is quite overkill when monitors are in the 8-bit range, with high end pro monitors at 10 bit. And AFAIK, printed media don't reproduce a whole lot of color either. I mean, take a look at how much more color there is when you add 2 bits successively:
6-bit: 262K colors
8-bit: 16.7M colors
10-bit: 1.07B colors
14-bit: 4.40T colors
16-bit: 281T colors
If I understand correctly, bit depth increases the number of "steps" of color in a particular colorspace, but doesn't increase the breadth of colors (which depend on the colorspace itself). So you can have 16-bits of color in a tiny sRGB colorspace, which would be kind of worthless. However, for 16 bits in Adobe RGB, the steps are slightly larger and more dispersed well outside the range of sRGB. Is Adobe RGB even big enough to notice banding at 14 bits (since banding is the result of huge, perceptible steps of color in a color space due to insufficient colors)? Hard to know, that's for sure!
I think its too early to start talking about 16 bits considering how little we've actually seen beyond 8 bits lol
6-bit: 262K colors
8-bit: 16.7M colors
10-bit: 1.07B colors
14-bit: 4.40T colors
16-bit: 281T colors
If I understand correctly, bit depth increases the number of "steps" of color in a particular colorspace, but doesn't increase the breadth of colors (which depend on the colorspace itself). So you can have 16-bits of color in a tiny sRGB colorspace, which would be kind of worthless. However, for 16 bits in Adobe RGB, the steps are slightly larger and more dispersed well outside the range of sRGB. Is Adobe RGB even big enough to notice banding at 14 bits (since banding is the result of huge, perceptible steps of color in a color space due to insufficient colors)? Hard to know, that's for sure!
I think its too early to start talking about 16 bits considering how little we've actually seen beyond 8 bits lol
Upvote
0
RedEye said:
+1 for each of you, I agree. There needs to be a body that remains in the camera still photo business.
[/quote]
Canon have proved they can make high res sensors, and have stated they can respond quickly to the D800 if needed although a little cryptic. I guess there must be a high res or two prototype banging around.
While I would be suprised if a high res camera that isnt the 1D would have 16 bit while the 1D does not who knows what they will do. Since ultra high res has no video benefit this high MP camera would be the perfect platform to forget about video and concentrate on stills the good ol 3D rumour
a high MP high dynamic range body with 1D build, no integrated battery grip low FPS super high quality low iso it will tick all the studio and landscape photographers boxes. A camera that is totally stills oriented would be refreshing and a high MP beast targeted at studio and landscape might just be the vehicle to deliver it. If they do i I just hope it doesnt have the integrated grip.
but what if canon made it and priced it at $5000? 1D build quality 2 or 3 fps 50MP super DR at iso 100 max iso 3200? then we would be flooded by crys of "how can canon do this to me its too expensive!" never mind that is half the price of a pentax 645D and can use all the canon glass you already have.
just some things to consider...
Upvote
0
RedEye said:If the technology has improved and the sensor pix count the same, is there any chance that it goes 16 bit color similar to many medium formats? Is a neat idea and the colors and contract could be stunning
I find this question to be intriguing. For one, full 16-bit color would be great, if it was utilized. Ironically, despite Canon's claim of 14-bit color, they don't effectively use all 14 bits. To date, Canon's cameras score lower on color depth (DXO tends to rate Nikon/Sony cameras about 24 bits of color depth, to Canon's 21-22 bits). To date, Canon's cameras also score lower on dynamic range, maxing out at about 11.7 stops of DR, vs. the 13.9 stops achieved by Nikon/Sony cameras.
Personally, I would be ecstatic if Canon could actually produce REAL 14-bit RAW images that fully utilize each and every bit at their disposal, rather than gimping us by a full two stops on DR. From a color depth perspective, it certainly doesn't seem to matter a wit in real-world comparisons between photos taken by Canon and Nikon gear...but a difference of two stops of dynamic range IS something that can be measured, and gaining two stops of DR IS INDEED something that could be utilized...I could stop using my Lee .6 ND grad for most of my sunset/sunrise landscape shots.
So Canon...please...please, please...give us TRUE 14-bit RAW, and TRUE 14-stop DR!!
Upvote
0
Guys, if you haven't read it... : http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/digital.sensor.performance.summary/ This is a great source of very deeply described camera sensor technology, based mainly on canon dslrs with physics fundamentals clearly explained and photo examples. It's a huge amount of information 23 pages long which clarifies why this all is it not as easy as we'd wish to.
Upvote
0
Neeneko said:
it is easy to run away with the market when you were the only game that had a FF dslr with video. that's no longer the case. everybody is doing one and the really high end video is moving towards gear like the RED line or Cinema line from canon. I don't see the new 5D being the happy accident it was 3 years ago. If they make it better than their flagship and c300, it would just canibalize the market they are tying to go after. not going to happen.
Upvote
0
S
sjprg
Guest
16 bits have more to do with the tonal differentation than number of colors, as an anology think of a 100 foot ladder and the spacing between steps. Do you want 10 steps at 10 feet apart or 50 steps at 2 feet apart. I would hate to have to climb the one with the 10 foot steps.
Upvote
0
- Status
