300mm f/2.8L IS II vs. 400mm f/4 DO IS II ---> price difference

[AlanF]

The tuxedo for mine arrived. It's OK with the 2xTC but I am going to use the bare lens at 400mm for a while to take advantage of its incredible IQ and f/4.

A good combo for me is my having the 400mm II on the 5DS R and my wife having the 100-400mm II on the 7DII for zoom and lightness.

 

[candc]

Was it the last 3 #'s - mine is 107.

Jack

Yes. Yours is 42 on from mine. Collectors (books, prints etc) like having numbers below 100. I wonder how many of these have been made? If it's in the low 100s, Canon would hardly have covered the development and production costs.

Mine AFMAs at 0 for 400mm and 560mm and shifts to -5 at 800mm.

Having to decide what to do with the 300/2.8 II. I don't think I can justify keeping it.

If you often use 2 cameras then you can use the 300 on your ff body and the 400 on your 7dii. I use the sigma 120-300 on a 6d. I like the wide open nicely blurred background look for close animals like raccoons, squirrels, and cats. The 400doii on 7dii is dynamite for bif.

It kind of is. It is a light combination, it has 10fps and if bright light the f/4 enables you to shoot with low ISO. I have used mine when my left hand was tired hand holding the 500 II...

the 7dii and doii were announced together. they are like chocolate and peanut butter. everyone was expecting the new 100-400.

 

[arbitrage]

Mine arrived today. Raining out so no real shots.

Instead I did some quick f/8 focusing tests between a few bodies. I did some MFD to far and back focusing and focusing between different medium range targets.

There is no question that the 1DX2 is far ahead of all the other bodies. It never hunted once in any of the tests. The 5DSR and 7D2 and 1DX were very similar to each other. They had some issues going from MFD to a medium range target and back again and always did a quick hunt each time. The 1D4 was terrible with the slowest movement I've ever seen when going MFD to medium range and back.

All the cameras were very good going between different medium range targets, the 1DX2 still was quickest but the others are all very quick also (including the 1D4).

One last test was from a medium range target to infinity trying to focus on bland grey mountain with no contrast. The 5DSR, 7D2, 1DX had trouble focusing on the mountain, sometimes failing until I moved to a slightly more contrasty spot. The 1DX2 grabbed focus on the mountain almost all times but did fail once. The 1D4 actually did the best in this test (I wonder if it was because its AF sensor is larger and found some contrast?).

Anyways, these initial tests are very rudimentary and actually in the field performance may be different. But the 1DX2 does show an advantage overall at f/8. Not to mention being able to use more focus points and all the different AF modes. It will be interesting to see if the 5D4 can perform just as good. I won't be testing the 5D4 as I have no interest in the camera. I will say that back in the day I shot 5D3 and 1DX which also had very similar if not identical (in spec) AF systems and yet the 1DX always resulted in more keepers. Having extra AF processors and the larger battery usually give the 1 series the advantage but I could see the 5D4 besting the 1DX as it is a generation newer.

I'm glad I will have 3 days over the long weekend to test more and more out in the field.

 

[Jack Douglas]

arbitrage, thanks for that and congratulations. I was able to get slow live view focusing with the 6D at 800, F8 and otherwise tried manual focus @ 800. That lens, being thinner is nice to focus, I like it also for balance.

Sounds like I may be happier with a 1DX II than a 5D4 but I'll have to see how the 5D4 stands up to cropping and how it performs at higher ISO. Today shooting at 800 was a first for me and it is pretty significant compared to 600 so I think a 1DX II and 400 DO II would serve me pretty well. But it's F8 - just have to be thankful and not complain.

Jack

 

[arbitrage]

The tuxedo for mine arrived. It's OK with the 2xTC but I am going to use the bare lens at 400mm for a while to take advantage of its incredible IQ and f/4.

A good combo for me is my having the 400mm II on the 5DS R and my wife having the 100-400mm II on the 7DII for zoom and lightness.

I like the look of that tuxedo. It looks like a nicer fit than what LensCoat provides. What brand of "tuxedo" is that? Thanks.

 

[Jack Douglas]

The tuxedo for mine arrived. It's OK with the 2xTC but I am going to use the bare lens at 400mm for a while to take advantage of its incredible IQ and f/4.

A good combo for me is my having the 400mm II on the 5DS R and my wife having the 100-400mm II on the 7DII for zoom and lightness.

I like the look of that tuxedo. It looks like a nicer fit than what LensCoat provides. What brand of "tuxedo" is that? Thanks.

Yes I'm interested too.

The first thing that hit me walking with the 400 was that I don't have my Jobu "handle". I wouldn't be without that for my mode of shooting and hiking for a moment. Hard to adequately describe, but I could sure demonstrate the ways in which the handle helps, including allowing for less fatigue via left/right hand support along with the neck strap. I can grasp the handle and hold the lens/camera in my right hand while jumping small obstacles with my arm flex removing any jarring effect, etc.

I need to see if the Jobu will transfer to the 400 from the 300.

Jack

 

[arbitrage]

A few comparisons before selling my 300II (and maybe the 200-400)....one f-stop makes a big difference.

5 ways to 400mm

5 ways to 600mm

3 ways to 800mm

 

[AlanF]

The tuxedo for mine arrived. It's OK with the 2xTC but I am going to use the bare lens at 400mm for a while to take advantage of its incredible IQ and f/4.

A good combo for me is my having the 400mm II on the 5DS R and my wife having the 100-400mm II on the 7DII for zoom and lightness.

I like the look of that tuxedo. It looks like a nicer fit than what LensCoat provides. What brand of "tuxedo" is that? Thanks.

Made in the UK. I have bought several sets of lens camo from them - all excellent.

http://outdoorphotographygear.co.uk/

 

[AlanF]

A few comparisons before selling my 300II (and maybe the 200-400)....one f-stop makes a big difference.

5 ways to 400mm

5 ways to 600mm

3 ways to 800mm

Have you heard of the domino effect?

 

[arthurbikemad]

Made in the UK. I have bought several sets of lens camo from them - all excellent.

http://outdoorphotographygear.co.uk/

^^^^ good to deal with and great covers, hide netting is great too! I have them on my 70-200, 100-400, 200/2 and 500/4 plus the teleconverters 1.4 and 2.0, they have a rubber inner so don't slip around.

 

[AlanF]

I have now done a lot of testing, comparing the 400mm DO, 300mm f/2.8 II, 100-400mm II, Sigma 150-600mm C at different distances to charts and different lighting on the 5DS R.

Under all conditions, the 400mm DO and +1.4xTC at 560mm is spectacular in terms of both resolution and accuracy. As mentioned, I am not happy with the 2xTC. It might be my 2xTC III, but in the past it was excellent on the 5DIII. Interestingly, the Sigma holds its own at longer distances and in bright light, but deteriorates at closer distances and lower light. The 100-400mm II is much better at 12m than 20m.

Here is a female blackbird this morning, about 12m from me. f/4 gives nice backgrounds and foregrounds. It's difficult to pick out the plumage of these birds, but the lens has done a good job at 1/320s.

 

[AlanF]

Made in the UK. I have bought several sets of lens camo from them - all excellent.

http://outdoorphotographygear.co.uk/

^^^^ good to deal with and great covers, hide netting is great too! I have them on my 70-200, 100-400, 200/2 and 500/4 plus the teleconverters 1.4 and 2.0, they have a rubber inner so don't slip around.

They have fabric on the inside too (unless yours are very old?), which they advertise as being there to stop neoprene particles forming by rubbing and getting inside the lens.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

The tuxedo for mine arrived. It's OK with the 2xTC but I am going to use the bare lens at 400mm for a while to take advantage of its incredible IQ and f/4.

A good combo for me is my having the 400mm II on the 5DS R and my wife having the 100-400mm II on the 7DII for zoom and lightness.

I like the look of that tuxedo. It looks like a nicer fit than what LensCoat provides. What brand of "tuxedo" is that? Thanks.

Made in the UK. I have bought several sets of lens camo from them - all excellent.

http://outdoorphotographygear.co.uk/

I use them too, far better than Lenscoat IMO.

I bought another one a few months ago for my 100-400 Mk2 and initially was a bit disappointed as they had changed the material that they use. However, after using it for a while, I am pleased to say that the new material is even better and grips the lens really well whilst still providing excellent protection and camouflage. If they start using this for the larger lenses then I may well replace my existing ones!

 

[Jack Douglas]

A few comparisons before selling my 300II (and maybe the 200-400)....one f-stop makes a big difference.

5 ways to 400mm

5 ways to 600mm

3 ways to 800mm

Have you heard of the domino effect?

;D ;D

 

[Jack Douglas]

I have now done a lot of testing, comparing the 400mm DO, 300mm f/2.8 II, 100-400mm II, Sigma 150-600mm C at different distances to charts and different lighting on the 5DS R.

Under all conditions, the 400mm DO and +1.4xTC at 560mm is spectacular in terms of both resolution and accuracy. As mentioned, I am not happy with the 2xTC. It might be my 2xTC III, but in the past it was excellent on the 5DIII. Interestingly, the Sigma holds its own at longer distances and in bright light, but deteriorates at closer distances and lower light. The 100-400mm II is much better at 12m than 20m.

Here is a female blackbird this morning, about 12m from me. f/4 gives nice backgrounds and foregrounds. It's difficult to pick out the plumage of these birds, but the lens has done a good job at 1/320s.

Hi Alan, thanks for this. Now about 400 X2, you had said it's all over the place or some such phrase. That could mean different things so is it just that the AF is unreliable but the IQ is fine. Did you manually tweak and then shoot to compare lens IQ between the candidates?

Jack

 

[arbitrage]

I managed to get out for an hour today. I shot mostly 800mm on 1DX2 and a little on 5DSR. I haven't looked through the 5DSR photos yet but I was happy with AF and IQ from the 800mm. Here are some kingfisher examples. Most of these are fairly decent crops and most at ISO 4000 and 5000 except the last one at 1600.

I did use Focal before going out. On the 1DX2 I got +2, +1 and -1 for 400, 560, 800. So I left them all at 0. The 5DSR I did only at 800 and got 0 from Focal but the resolution numbers were very low. I didn't have the best of light so I will try Focal again with better light when possible. Usually I don't bother with AFMA anyways, for birding there are to many other variables that affect the shot instead of AFMA.

I added one 5DSR shot of the widgeon at the end. The 5DSR hit rate was much less than the 1DX2 but to be fair I was trying to protect the ISO on the 5DSR so shutter speeds were slower and may have been part of the issue with soft shots.

 

[Jack Douglas]

I managed to get out for an hour today. I shot mostly 800mm on 1DX2 and a little on 5DSR. I haven't looked through the 5DSR photos yet but I was happy with AF and IQ from the 800mm. Here are some kingfisher examples. Most of these are fairly decent crops and most at ISO 4000 and 5000 except the last one at 1600.

I did use Focal before going out. On the 1DX2 I got +2, +1 and -1 for 400, 560, 800. So I left them all at 0. The 5DSR I did only at 800 and got 0 from Focal but the resolution numbers were very low. I didn't have the best of light so I will try Focal again with better light when possible. Usually I don't bother with AFMA anyways, for birding there are to many other variables that affect the shot instead of AFMA.

I added one 5DSR shot of the widgeon at the end. The 5DSR hit rate was much less than the 1DX2 but to be fair I was trying to protect the ISO on the 5DSR so shutter speeds were slower and may have been part of the issue with soft shots.

Arbitrage, thanks for this. So the flight shot was also 800 - that's pretty impressive.

We know that every product brings compromises and my initial reaction is not negative but I can sense the difference in bokeh in some of the shots, primarily for the more brightly lit backgrounds that are busier. Getting 800 reach in this small a package is a huge plus. I'll be watching for more examples and commentary and will try to get some shots to post too but I'm limited to 560, pretty much.

Jack

 

[Jack Douglas]

BTW would you mind posting an uncropped for reference.

Jack

 

[AlanF]

I have now done a lot of testing, comparing the 400mm DO, 300mm f/2.8 II, 100-400mm II, Sigma 150-600mm C at different distances to charts and different lighting on the 5DS R.

Under all conditions, the 400mm DO and +1.4xTC at 560mm is spectacular in terms of both resolution and accuracy. As mentioned, I am not happy with the 2xTC. It might be my 2xTC III, but in the past it was excellent on the 5DIII. Interestingly, the Sigma holds its own at longer distances and in bright light, but deteriorates at closer distances and lower light. The 100-400mm II is much better at 12m than 20m.

Here is a female blackbird this morning, about 12m from me. f/4 gives nice backgrounds and foregrounds. It's difficult to pick out the plumage of these birds, but the lens has done a good job at 1/320s.

Hi Alan, thanks for this. Now about 400 X2, you had said it's all over the place or some such phrase. That could mean different things so is it just that the AF is unreliable but the IQ is fine. Did you manually tweak and then shoot to compare lens IQ between the candidates?

Jack

Jack
What I meant that the FoCal plots were horrible. Very shallow and not very reproducible. I tweaked the focus by taking lots of shots of charts at different AFMA.

Arbitrage
I am very interested what you found for the lens at 800mm on the 5DS. Did FoCal behave similarly to mine? 800mm out resolved the bare lens at 400mm, but the best performance was with the 1.4xTC at 560mm. Please show more shots when convenient.
Alan

 

[Jack Douglas]

No question we need/want good performance at 800! Meaning IQ that compares with 300 X2. It probably goes without saying that as cameras are released the f8 AF performance will improve but the IQ is what the lens delivers and isn't going to change.

I'll have to trust what you guys present since I can't realistically shoot at 800. Crummy weather has followed the arrival of my lens so no shooting today.

Jack