A Suggestion on the EOS-1D C Replacement
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Lee Jay said:
Why should this be in a DSLR rather than in a mirrorless camera that is more suitable for video stuff from its very construction proiciple? And why should the combined functionality ("convergence") come free of charge?
Asking for a dslr with 4k video is like asking for a big SUV that is also capable to reach 250km/h on the german autobahn. It exists, e.g. a Porsche Cayenne ... You can buy it. But it costs ... a little extra.
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AvTvM said:
Almost everything I shoot is moving, often at high speed. OVFs are crucial for this, as are high-performance phase-detection AF sensors. Mirrorless is totally unsuitable.
Because it will increase volume and thus decrease the amortized cost of development. This is how "convergence" works.
No it's not. The sensor already has more than enough pixels for that, so it's just a matter of sampling, processing and saving them. I remember the same argument about full-HD video when 640x480 was the standard in compacts. The compact in my pocket has full-HD. You're making the same argument as those arguing that 640x480 was sufficient and that full-HD would be reserved for expensive cinema and production cameras.
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15FPS on a MILC really great .....if you need to take loads of pictures of something that is NOT moving :
And yes, agree with Lee Jay on OVF. I use a 1DX to shoot competition dance recitals. There's no way I could do it with even a half second lag on an EVF, and I wouldn't be able to track anything without real DSLR AF. I shot 8000 frames last year in one weekend during a total of 14 hours or recitals with about 350 dancers. I had about an 80-90% keeper rate (based on correct focus tracking). No way that's happening yet with MILC.
And yes, agree with Lee Jay on OVF. I use a 1DX to shoot competition dance recitals. There's no way I could do it with even a half second lag on an EVF, and I wouldn't be able to track anything without real DSLR AF. I shot 8000 frames last year in one weekend during a total of 14 hours or recitals with about 350 dancers. I had about an 80-90% keeper rate (based on correct focus tracking). No way that's happening yet with MILC.
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PureClassA said:15FPS on a MILC really great .....if you need to take loads of pictures of something that is NOT moving :
And yes, agree with Lee Jay on OVF. I use a 1DX to shoot competition dance recitals. There's no way I could do it with even a half second lag on an EVF, and I wouldn't be able to track anything without real DSLR AF. I shot 8000 frames last year in one weekend during a total of 14 hours or recitals with about 350 dancers. I had about an 80-90% keeper rate (based on correct focus tracking). No way that's happening yet with MILC.
A half second? I've tried shooting with a measured 25ms lag (total, including frame lag) and it was totally unusable for my application.
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Re: A Suggestion on the EOS-1D C Replacement [CR1]
Well, I think the problem was who the 1DC was aimed at -- i.e. at people who actually knew what an 8-bit codec can do (or not do) -- and, of course, that Canon initially priced it at a whooping $15,000. It's too little & too late to now drop it to $8,000.
But if Canon announces a next generation 1DX with 4K 10-bit and peak/zebras for, say, $8,000 -- then they are back in business. Until then, I'll be sitting on the 4K fence (at least when it comes to Canon) -- 4K 8-bit is so gnarly that it's not even funny.
-- peer
Tugela said:
Well, I think the problem was who the 1DC was aimed at -- i.e. at people who actually knew what an 8-bit codec can do (or not do) -- and, of course, that Canon initially priced it at a whooping $15,000. It's too little & too late to now drop it to $8,000.
But if Canon announces a next generation 1DX with 4K 10-bit and peak/zebras for, say, $8,000 -- then they are back in business. Until then, I'll be sitting on the 4K fence (at least when it comes to Canon) -- 4K 8-bit is so gnarly that it's not even funny.
-- peer
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Re: A Suggestion on the EOS-1D C Replacement [CR1]
May have taken a few years longer than necessary, but, seems Canon is coming around to a decent strategy
I think Sony is on the right path with their A7 line, they just havent actually supported it with lenses like Canon and Nikon have. But, the idea of a high MP studio/landscape cam, a more general workhorse (wedding/sport/event), and then a low-light video/street cam is a pretty smart differentiation. I'd settle for 12MP stills if it came with ISO performance like the A7s.PureClassA said:
May have taken a few years longer than necessary, but, seems Canon is coming around to a decent strategy
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Re: A Suggestion on the EOS-1D C Replacement [CR1]
Except for the fact that a 12fps FF mirror box costs a lot of money and why does a cinema camera needs 12fps?
It's bizarre.
They apparently plan to give high DR to the 1DX2 but not the 5Ds?!!!!! or 5D4?!.
They give 12fps to a 5DC but lock 5Ds to 5fps in crop mode??
If it's all true, it seems strange. But in way that almost makes it seems true....
ajfotofilmagem said:If we consider the rumor over a 18 megapixel camera, 12 frames per second, video 4K, double CFast card slot, it fits well in a hypothetical 5D Cinema.
Although I believe that Canon can limit it to 10 photos per second, not to eat the sales of 1D series. :
Except for the fact that a 12fps FF mirror box costs a lot of money and why does a cinema camera needs 12fps?
It's bizarre.
They apparently plan to give high DR to the 1DX2 but not the 5Ds?!!!!! or 5D4?!.
They give 12fps to a 5DC but lock 5Ds to 5fps in crop mode??
If it's all true, it seems strange. But in way that almost makes it seems true....
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1D-C in a 5D package: Canon & Magic Lantern (ML):
The rumor goes that Canon threatened ("agreed with") ML that ML would not touch the 1-series firmware or else face the corporate legal wrath of Canon. ...by putting Canon's premo DSLR functions like 4K in a 5-series (non 1-series) body, Canon essentially tells ML and their fan club to go to town: "use our hardware, use your software." This way Canon doesn't need to innovate (or keep up with) the DSLR user interface in the DSLR video market (which really isn't an ideal form factor for video anyways and Canon knows it and perhaps rightfully doesn't try to sell a DSLR as movie making kit).
I truly believe ML makes a Canon DSLR much more functional for video -- it also makes for a community around Canon DSLR video run and gunners. This has large benefits towards building product hype, extending product life and perhaps you could say even adds dollar value as the Canon product is on a continuous development cycle with new ML releases. How has the 1D-C functionality expanded since its release? Does Canon care about this? Probably not, though somewhere in the market research they could hear/see some of this.
Those are my thoughts. No insults intended about DSLR video (it has its uses!). :-* Best wishes all
P.S. I love jebrady03's comments regarding 5D "classic". Hehe.
The rumor goes that Canon threatened ("agreed with") ML that ML would not touch the 1-series firmware or else face the corporate legal wrath of Canon. ...by putting Canon's premo DSLR functions like 4K in a 5-series (non 1-series) body, Canon essentially tells ML and their fan club to go to town: "use our hardware, use your software." This way Canon doesn't need to innovate (or keep up with) the DSLR user interface in the DSLR video market (which really isn't an ideal form factor for video anyways and Canon knows it and perhaps rightfully doesn't try to sell a DSLR as movie making kit).
I truly believe ML makes a Canon DSLR much more functional for video -- it also makes for a community around Canon DSLR video run and gunners. This has large benefits towards building product hype, extending product life and perhaps you could say even adds dollar value as the Canon product is on a continuous development cycle with new ML releases. How has the 1D-C functionality expanded since its release? Does Canon care about this? Probably not, though somewhere in the market research they could hear/see some of this.
Those are my thoughts. No insults intended about DSLR video (it has its uses!). :-* Best wishes all
P.S. I love jebrady03's comments regarding 5D "classic". Hehe.
jebrady03 said:
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I definitly hope that this rumour is not true. As this makes alternatives more attractive than the canon ones. The High megapixel camera has a direct competition in the D810 and the Pentax. The 5DC is attractive when it comes to video, but not when it comes to shooting stills. A 5d Mark 4 would be crippled in the video department. So as much as I want a 4K camera for video, this won't be it then, as I love to shoot stills too and I would look for other manufacturers to replace my 5DIII.
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Canon Rumors said:
If the rumored 5DC is somewhere near the 3.6k USD price tag, I could opt for such a high ISO monster instead of a direct 5D3 follow up body. As I do mostly astro and low light it seems to be the right thing. I am looking forward to do moonlight event photography at astounishingly ISO 51k! Tried it out on a 5D3 using the nifty fifty F/ 1.4 wide open...well, it was still a tad too noisy ;-) But I will revisit my photographs and look what LR can do with them... Bring it on Canon. Three years down the road, I might be in the game for such a beauty ;-) !!!
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Clearly all this talk of the 5Dc on internet forums has given Canon the idea.
This could be where the modular design that we have hear about comes in: the real 5Dc will have an interchangeable viewfinder, one a traditional prism and works with the mirror as normal, just like a Canon F-1, Nikon F3 etc, and another viewfinder that is an EVF, primarily for video. Mirror automatically locks up when the 'finder is fitted, and away you go. AvTvM will love it.
If Canon don't do this I think they will really have missed a trick, but maybe they have forgotten that some of their SLR design from years ago had an interchangeable viewfinder.
I'm not surprised about the 1Dc. I've seen loads of 5DII / III's being used for professional video at all different types of functions; I've never once seen a 1Dc.
This could be where the modular design that we have hear about comes in: the real 5Dc will have an interchangeable viewfinder, one a traditional prism and works with the mirror as normal, just like a Canon F-1, Nikon F3 etc, and another viewfinder that is an EVF, primarily for video. Mirror automatically locks up when the 'finder is fitted, and away you go. AvTvM will love it.
If Canon don't do this I think they will really have missed a trick, but maybe they have forgotten that some of their SLR design from years ago had an interchangeable viewfinder.
I'm not surprised about the 1Dc. I've seen loads of 5DII / III's being used for professional video at all different types of functions; I've never once seen a 1Dc.
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Re: A Suggestion on the EOS-1D C Replacement [CR1]
You realize they'll just start calling it the 5D1, or 5Do, or something else, right? Why is it up to you to defend Canon's camera name? Especially when the "mark" system means that the original's name becomes ambiguous about whether it refers to the first model in the line, or the line in general? No different from "Chevy", or "Bimmer". They're not saying unkind things about your mother.
jebrady03 said:
You realize they'll just start calling it the 5D1, or 5Do, or something else, right? Why is it up to you to defend Canon's camera name? Especially when the "mark" system means that the original's name becomes ambiguous about whether it refers to the first model in the line, or the line in general? No different from "Chevy", or "Bimmer". They're not saying unkind things about your mother.
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Re: A Suggestion on the EOS-1D C Replacement [CR1]
Good point.
+1
Differentiation of the 5D product line into high res, high sensitivity & cinema would be a win for most, provided it doesn't inflate price and the various products are truly optimised to task.
Yup... it would make sense for Canon to hijack that the successful strategy for their higher volume FF product line.
If they get the feature set and price point right for these bodies, they have the opportunity to trounce Sony with the Canon lens fleet.
After all, cameras are a system, not just a body: Canon's EOS should monster the alternatives. That's why we're all here, right?
PureClassA said:
Good point.
adventureous said:
+1
Differentiation of the 5D product line into high res, high sensitivity & cinema would be a win for most, provided it doesn't inflate price and the various products are truly optimised to task.
AvTvM said:
Yup... it would make sense for Canon to hijack that the successful strategy for their higher volume FF product line.
If they get the feature set and price point right for these bodies, they have the opportunity to trounce Sony with the Canon lens fleet.
After all, cameras are a system, not just a body: Canon's EOS should monster the alternatives. That's why we're all here, right?
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I think the idea of spreading the lines is silly. The reason that the 1dc didn't sell as well is because it was hard to pay an extra 6000 dollars just for the video features.
I need cameras that do both pictures and video. I would buy and be more than willing to pay an extra premium for a 5dc but not double the price. There are far to many things missing that are common to other cameras for me to pay double the price.
I need cameras that do both pictures and video. I would buy and be more than willing to pay an extra premium for a 5dc but not double the price. There are far to many things missing that are common to other cameras for me to pay double the price.
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