Another Nikon full-frame

[deleteme]

I gotta say, I'm glad Canon isn't getting into this silliness.

If one listened to the noise on the forums it would seem that this is exactly what the public is clamoring for. I see almost nothing but "What we need is a FF (insert camera here) and sell it for $1200."

 

[unfocused]

If I have to guess what will make a bigger splash at Photokina - and a bigger impact
on the bottom line - that would be a 40mp 5DIV, not a 7DII.
Just sayin'.

Makes sense. Since I don't own Canon stock, and I'm quite happy with my 1D X, it's good for me either way.

How would that make sense? APS-C far outsells full frame. There is a significant amount of pent-up demand for the 7D II. Aside from a handful of vocal forum advocates, there is little evidence of demand for a high megapixel full frame camera.

 

[unfocused]

I gotta say, I'm glad Canon isn't getting into this silliness.

If one listened to the noise on the forums it would seem that this is exactly what the public is clamoring for. I see almost nothing but "What we need is a FF (insert camera here) and sell it for $1200."

Canon already makes a full frame camera that is not far off from $1,200. It's called the 6D. I wouldn't be surprised if it hit $1,200 within 18 mos.

 

[Loswr]

Makes sense. Since I don't own Canon stock, and I'm quite happy with my 1D X, it's good for me either way.

How would that make sense?

Context, man...context. 'The suits knowing better' makes more sense than Canon's blind foolishness or belief in Christmas magic. At least to me...maybe not to you. Make sense?

 

[unfocused]

Makes sense. Since I don't own Canon stock, and I'm quite happy with my 1D X, it's good for me either way.

How would that make sense?

Context, man...context. 'The suits knowing better' makes more sense than Canon's blind foolishness or belief in Christmas magic. At least to me...maybe not to you. Make sense?

Okay, I get it. Yes, that portion of the comment made sense. Obviously, I was taking issue with the thought that a high megapixel full frame camera would help the bottom line more than a 7DII. I was afraid I was going to have to start quoting to Neuro some of Neuro's past reality-check posts about the relative markets, internet chatter vs. the real world, sales numbers of the 5DIII vs. Nikon D800 etc. etc.

 

[AvTvM]

internet chatter vs. the real world, sales numbers of the 5DIII vs. Nikon D800 etc. etc.

Neuro does not have those either. He inducts those solely based on ever changing Amazon.com (US) sales rankings. ;D

I´d really LOVE to see total # of units sold for specific camera models (by year or at least runnind total since start). Unfortunately Canon and Nikon have not disclosed them to me either. ;D

 

[Loswr]

internet chatter vs. the real world, sales numbers of the 5DIII vs. Nikon D800 etc. etc.

Neuro does not have those either. He inducts those solely based on ever changing Amazon.com (US) sales rankings.

And on Amazon.de, and comments by Canon and Nikon executives about their sales of higher end cameras (where Canon has recently cited better than expected sales in that segment, and Nikon worse than expected) etc. etc. : 8)

Of course, if you believe the theory put forth by our departed then returned then departed again friend Dean, who earns A$250K/year taking pictures so he knows more about photography than others, I am apparently a Canon employee, so maybe I do have those figures...

 

[AcutancePhotography]

This thread just keeps on gettin better and better. ;D

Do we even know what the original topic was?

 

[Loswr]

Do we even know what the original topic was?

Dynamic range? :-X

 

[AvTvM]

Whether or not nikon will be expanding its lineup to a total of 5 tired old FF mirrorslappers or not. And whether Canon will or should do so too. Rather than finally launching a top-notch mirrorless FF camera system and enter the era of smaller, lighter and more capable camera gear.

 

[jrista]

So my answer is, where are the new improved models from Canon today?

Pending. Canon does not iterate as fast as Nikon. That may have put them behind a little, but I think in general, having a longer cycle than a year or so is good for business. It is NOT satisfying to spend three grand plus on a piece of high end equipment, only to have the company "fix" it's issues, then ask you for another three grand a year and a half later. If you read Nikon Rumors forums, that reaction is evident in a lot of Nikon users. They may have the better sensor technology, but that doesn't mean Nikon owners are compliantless.

We cannot really speak to Canon's new sensor technology yet. It's too soon. The 7D II will be the first real opportunity for anyone to see if Canon has done anything on that front or not.

 

[Famateur]

Whether or not nikon will be expanding its lineup to a total of 5 tired old FF mirrorslappers or not. And whether Canon will or should do so too. Rather than finally launching a top-notch mirrorless FF camera system and enter the era of smaller, lighter and more capable camera gear.

That would definitely boost Canon's battery sales! : Over on SLR Lounge, one reviewer (who switched from Canon to the Sony A7) admitted that for a full day of shooting, he needs 4 fully charged batteries (at $80 a pop), and for shooting video, he needed 8-10! His stack-o-batteries was impressive.

Seriously, we probably won't see Canon move into full frame mirrorless until battery life, EVF and AF speed/accuracy rival their DSLR counterparts.

Edited to add: It's also currently a market of smaller, lighter and less capable revenue/sales.

 

[moreorless]

Whether or not nikon will be expanding its lineup to a total of 5 tired old FF mirrorslappers or not. And whether Canon will or should do so too. Rather than finally launching a top-notch mirrorless FF camera system and enter the era of smaller, lighter and more capable camera gear.

That would definitely boost Canon's battery sales! : Over on SLR Lounge, one reviewer (who switched from Canon to the Sony A7) admitted that for a full day of shooting, he needs 4 fully charged batteries (at $80 a pop), and for shooting video, he needed 8-10! His stack-o-batteries was impressive.

Seriously, we probably won't see Canon move into full frame mirrorless until battery life, EVF and AF speed/accuracy rival their DSLR counterparts.

Edited to add: It's also currently a market of smaller, lighter and less capable revenue/sales.

Your also taking a much more significant investment when moving to mirrorless, a new FF DSLR just means a new body that's using a lot of already existing tech and maybe even a lot of the same parts. A FF mirrorless body means using mostly new tech and designing a lineup of lenses to use.

I would point out as well that even though the 6D and D610 are sold partly as small entry level bodies really in terms of handling there still pretty high end cameras compared to the A7. I think theres room for releasing something potentially smaller and/or cheaper which would also have the benefit of a much cheaper lens lineup.

 

[psolberg]

While its true that Camera sales are down, as Canon noted, high end camera sales are climbing. That hasn't been overlooked by Nikon, if they are indeed planning another Full Frame Body.

Yes ... but that's not because Nikon is in trouble.
That's the point of contention here.

Both the 5DIII and D800 have proven very successful and have shown that there is a place for both types of cameras at the high end.

So, it's not surprising that Nikon will likely be announcing a 5DIII-type of camera at Photokina.
Why not monetize on the need for such a camera in their lineup?

As for Canon: what if they announces a 40mp 5DIV at Photokina?
Will that be an act of desperation? A me-too response to the D810?

Certainly not. Just good business for Canon - and same for Nikon.

Why try to spin it as if either one is doing it because they are in trouble ??

+750

Thanks for smacking down the stupid fanboys just trying to play brand favoritism instead of making an intelligent comment. I wish there was more of that here. To reinforce your point, there is nothing desperate about releasing a 5DmkIII killer camera with 2 years worth of better technology. There is also nothing wrong with canon doing the same to capitalize on a good opportunity like nikon found in the high detail photography area. It is simply the way things always are in the camera industry, it is called competition, not desperation and surely the nikon base is very excited about this camera as it will sell like hot cakes for there is a perceptual gap between a budget full frame and a 5fps high MP body for studio and landscape.

and if you ask me, Nikon's lineup seems really good if you're looking to upgrade to full frame:

D4s for professional sports
D810 for studio and landscape
D750 for semi-professional action and wedding and event pros.
D610 for advanced amateurs

Desperation? more like excellent planning for if canon had such lineup many here would be praising their wide selection instead of making stupid comments about how this somehow weakens their system. Many people have asked for this camera and nikon listened which IMO is a quality canon should follow.

And yes the camera industry is in decline for everybody. If you think canon is somehow doing great you only have to see how mirrorless and smart phones are basically cannibalizing their crop frame cash cows. Do read the link posted to Thom's articles for some good insight on why both Nikon and Canon have very little to celebrate and a lot of work to do. The age of the DSRL is coming to an end so it is not surprising to see Nikon push more full frame as it is an advantage (for now) over mirrorless. Yet we know from sony, who is a much larger company that canon with much better sensor technology that full frame mirrorless will be the future. It is only a question of when.

 

[Coolhandchuck]

I am doing my best, to understand why it is a bad thing for a company to give consumers a choice. I wish that Canon would give us choices like this. Its great that Canon offers a bunch of different lenses, but not ok for Nikon to offer a bunch of different cameras? That is hypocrisy to me.

 

[3kramd5]

I am doing my best, to understand why it is a bad thing for a company to give consumers a choice. I wish that Canon would give us choices like this. Its great that Canon offers a bunch of different lenses, but not ok for Nikon to offer a bunch of different cameras? That is hypocrisy to me.

I think the people complaining do so because quick refreshes hurt resale value. Why they think Nikon should protect the price of used gear at the expense of customers ready to buy new gear (if they sat on the 610 for two years and sold off the flawed 600 stock, that would be truly something to criticize) is beyond me, but maybe it feels different for people who buy gear based on a schedule rather than on an as-needed basis.

 

[dgatwood]

That would definitely boost Canon's battery sales! : Over on SLR Lounge, one reviewer (who switched from Canon to the Sony A7) admitted that for a full day of shooting, he needs 4 fully charged batteries (at $80 a pop), and for shooting video, he needed 8-10! His stack-o-batteries was impressive.

The real question is this: On average, how many mirrorless wide angle lenses do you need to carry with you in your kit before the weight savings of the lighter mirrorless lenses balances out the extra weight of the additional batteries?

Your also taking a much more significant investment when moving to mirrorless, a new FF DSLR just means a new body that's using a lot of already existing tech and maybe even a lot of the same parts. A FF mirrorless body means using mostly new tech and designing a lineup of lenses to use.

Not necessarily. They could keep the flange distance the same and let the cameras use EF lenses. Then, they could slowly introduce a series of EF-FM lenses that take advantage of the lack of a mirror to push the back element farther into the body, much like some of the EF-S lenses do, but to a greater extent. By going that route, you don't have the clumsy adapter mess. You'd lose a little bit of the size/weight advantage for the widest lenses, but not all of it.

 

[tayassu]

and if you ask me, Nikon's lineup seems really good if you're looking to upgrade to full frame:

D4s for professional sports
D810 for studio and landscape
D750 for semi-professional action and wedding and event pros.
D610 for advanced amateurs

Desperation? more like excellent planning for if canon had such lineup many here would be praising their wide selection instead of making stupid comments about how this somehow weakens their system. Many people have asked for this camera and nikon listened which IMO is a quality canon should follow.

+1000

I was thinking exactly the same! A 1DX II with like 1 stop better noise and a bit more DR would beat the hell out of the D4s, a 3D would be at least on par with the D810, a new 5D IV, more an evolution kind of thing would be better or equal than the D750 and a 6D II with a bit better AF would kick the D610 into the middle of nowhere... I expect these cameras to come within the next 2 years, as Canon is not dumb. The lineup of Nikon with that new D750 would be a mark to follow!

 

[privatebydesign]

and if you ask me, Nikon's lineup seems really good if you're looking to upgrade to full frame:

D4s for professional sports
D810 for studio and landscape
D750 for semi-professional action and wedding and event pros.
D610 for advanced amateurs

Desperation? more like excellent planning for if canon had such lineup many here would be praising their wide selection instead of making stupid comments about how this somehow weakens their system. Many people have asked for this camera and nikon listened which IMO is a quality canon should follow.

Well surely that equates to:-
D4s 1DX for professional sports
D810 MIA for studio and landscape (though Canon seem to have been of the opinion that their sensor tech and higher MP in the 135 format are not a market they are interested in)
D750 5D MkIII for semi-professional action and wedding and event pros.
D610 6D for advanced amateurs

Of course you failed to mention the Df, and that is the one that that has thrown the Nikon FF lineup the curved ball and elicited the smirks and derision it seems to have deserved.

 

[markko]

Apparently the D610, Df, and D810 aren't enough in the $2-3000 range.

http://nikonrumors.com/2014/08/08/another-full-frame-nikon-dslr-camera-coming-for-phiotokina.aspx/

I gotta say, I'm glad Canon isn't getting into this silliness.

Looking at the link below, I think they'll announce the D820... ;D

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3182497502/nikon-announces-service-advisory-for-d810-bright-spots