Breakthrough coming out with glass ND grads!

[privatebydesign]

I agree, there are questions to be answered, if the person can't answer them then we can all draw our own conclusions. That is the idea of a forum, to listen to differing points of view and form an opinion based on the ideas and 'proof' put forward.

So far I put more faith in an image showing vignetting than somebody saying 'mine doesn't, trust me'. But that doesn't mean he is wrong, chasing him off helps nobody and doesn't make him more inclined to engage.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Ok, what I'll do is redesign the holder setup to have zero vignetting at 16mm on FF setup with a standard slim CPL dimensions.

So, the filter as originally designed won't perform as you stated. You're going to redesign it, and even then you'll need the fine print of 'with a slim CPL'. And will there be any data to back up your revised claim?

Breakthrough's reply to ahsanford before your mention of a redesign stated that stacking a CPL behind the adapter/holder would result in '0% vignetting'. A blatant lie, followed immediately by the statement, "Trust me." Given your attitude and your rude and accusatory posts (both toward customers and competitors), I'd say your credibility is equal to your promised amount of vignetting.

 

[ahsanford]

I agree, there are questions to be answered, if the person can't answer them then we can all draw our own conclusions. That is the idea of a forum, to listen to differing points of view and form an opinion based on the ideas and 'proof' put forward.

So far I put more faith in an image showing vignetting than somebody saying 'mine doesn't, trust me'. But that doesn't mean he is wrong, chasing him off helps nobody and doesn't make him more inclined to engage.

I don't want to chase him off at all -- I want him to either show us how he did it or update his marketing materials to reflect the actual performance of his product.

Who knows? He may have a super slick solution to the problem and he has truly one-upped Lee. But these systems are nontrivial investments and I don't want to see a fellow CR forum person buy one under claim X and only see performance Y.

I'm only harping on vignetting because it is the overwhelming #1 pain point about these systems, and no 100mm system on the planet has pulled this (3 slots + CPL) off to my knowledge. Some folks sink close to a $1000 into these systems and end up needing to buy an even wider system after all is said and done because the system they bought leaves hard blacked out corners.

• Cokin L: "If used with a lens under 28mm on a full frame, you may need to remove one or two slots from the filter-holder to prevent vignetting, or to upgrade to a bigger system."
  
  
• Lee -- could not be more clear: see attached. Some lenses (remember they are a wildcard here with their filter ring placement) actually outperform this chart, but it's about right and it's a fair warning to those with unrealistic expectations.
  
  
• Formatt-Hitech: Not stated in specifics on the website/PDF that I could find (looks just like Lee), and a similar WA adaptor is offered. I presume it's similar to the Lee but do not know.
  
  
• Breakthrough: '3 slots @ 16mm FF = 0 vignetting. Trust me, you're good' :

- A

 

[privatebydesign]

I don't want to chase him off at all -- I want him to either show us how he did it or update his marketing materials to reflect the actual performance of his product.

Yes, that was my point!

But if he is met with insults and aggression even the best of us would think twice about engaging. Keep the comments to particular technical issues rather than personal digs and it all goes so much easier. If you have a personal grip with somebody that is germane then give links and supporting quotes so people who are not aware of previous incidents can make up their own mind.

People have very different opinions of me here, some think I am good and others hate me with a passion, I am blunt and don't respect authority or experience if I feel it is misplaced. I can and do back up what I post with illustrative images to prove my points when I make them, so love me or hate me I can and do support my comments.

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

Yes seriously Graham, you arrogant, rude ass.

I'm just here to talk to real world photographers about getting design and manufacturing input on new equipment, if you really insist on trolling email me directly to save everyone else the hassle

[email protected]

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

The sad thing is, Breakthrough might actually have some decent products but Graham's flippant 'because I designed it right and you should trust me and that should be enough for you' attitude is doing them no favors.

Last night I redesigned the X100 to have no vignetting even with a standard slim frame CPL, so what's the primary issue?

And can you stop talking about money and instead just focus on what we're talking about?

I'm not concerned with making money, just designing good stuff

Graham

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

"I ask because I'd love three slots + CPL at 16mm to be vignette free, but it seems far fetched because there's only so much you can do to stack things together up tight against the lens with only 100mm filters. Please explain how you pulled that off and I might actually buy your stuff."


It seemed far fetched but I solved it

I already designed X4 CPL without vignetting, then X100 holder with 3 levels, and now the adapter ring setup, so we're all good on this one.

and i added traction on the adapter ring, similar to traction frame design on X4 ND

vignetting problem with CPL solved, what's the next issue?

Graham

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

So, the filter as originally designed won't perform as you stated. You're going to redesign it, and even then you'll need the fine print of 'with a slim CPL'. And will there be any data to back up your revised claim?

X100 holder has no vignetting even with 3 levels installed, this is a big deal as most holders do have vignetting with 3 levels installed

with a CPL there might be a little, but with profile corrections enabled it's gone, yes

so without profile corrections there would be some, that's how that works

but now i've figured out how to eliminate it even with CPL, so we're all set here.

moving onto next issue

Graham

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

I'm only harping on vignetting because it is the overwhelming #1 pain point about these systems, and no 100mm system on the planet has pulled this (3 slots + CPL) off to my knowledge. Some folks sink close to a $1000 into these systems and end up needing to buy an even wider system after all is said and done because the system they bought leaves hard blacked out corners.

We have a 300 day return / exchange policy, so there's no risk for any of you, only me.

So you guys don't have to worry at all about the risk if it actually works or not, only I do.

Graham

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

Sorry to leave this conversation early, but I have lots of work ahead of me with launching these 3 new products, and we're moving our warehouse location at the same time.

I've decided to take more 3 new products we've been working on and add them to the X4 GND, X4 ND Square and X100 launch, so have to run to update everything to include these new products.

One of the three is a new category of filters, very excited to launch it.

If any of you guys have any questions or want to continue this conversation just send me an email: [email protected]

 

[neuroanatomist]

but now i've figured out how to eliminate it even with CPL, so we're all set here.

moving onto next issue

Is the next issue actually supporting what you say with data?

 

[Ozarker]

The sad thing is, Breakthrough might actually have some decent products but Graham's flippant 'because I designed it right and you should trust me and that should be enough for you' attitude is doing them no favors.

I'm not concerned with making money, just designing good stuff

Graham

I didn't have a dog in this hunt until now. Could I have a free unit to review? Well, not exactly free. I'll trade for product and write an honest review.

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

but now i've figured out how to eliminate it even with CPL, so we're all set here.

moving onto next issue

Is the next issue actually supporting what you say with data?

Which claim have I ever made which hasn't held up?

Graham

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

The sad thing is, Breakthrough might actually have some decent products but Graham's flippant 'because I designed it right and you should trust me and that should be enough for you' attitude is doing them no favors.

I'm not concerned with making money, just designing good stuff

Graham

I didn't have a dog in this hunt until now. Could I have a free unit to review? Well, not exactly free. I'll trade for product and write an honest review.

Sure, send me an email: [email protected]

Graham

 

[neuroanatomist]

but now i've figured out how to eliminate it even with CPL, so we're all set here.

moving onto next issue

Is the next issue actually supporting what you say with data?

Which claim have I ever made which hasn't held up?

Graham

For starters, the one where you (or a representative of yours, but given the tone in the chat stream, probably you) stated '0% vignetting' with a CPL, 'trust me', before you mentioned the redesign that you needed to (allegedly) make that statement true. Going back, your claim that B+W has posted false transmission curves, or has sold filters that don't match their published transmission curves. That's two just off the top of my head.

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

And with that, I've had enough trolling, thanks for keeping the conversation productive

For anyone who wants to continue the conversation on X100 holder or anything else feel free to email me: [email protected]

Graham

 

[snappy604]

assume this doesn't work with the sigma 20mm 1.4 art?

 

[neuroanatomist]

And with that, I've had enough trolling, thanks for keeping the conversation productive

I see. You ask the question, but you can't handle the truthful response, so you're going to take your marbles and run home. How very mature of you.

No doubt you'll be back here to troll some more, when you are ready for your next kickstarter campaign launch…

 

[Pookie]

And with that, I've had enough trolling, thanks for keeping the conversation productive

I see. You ask the question, but you can't handle the truthful response, so you're going to take your marbles and run home. How very mature of you.

No doubt you'll be back here to troll some more, when you are ready for your next kickstarter campaign launch…

This company is pretty shady and a number of people here have had more than a few complaints about their gear. I've personally seen how they treat paying customers, I live here in the Bay Area so I like to buy local and after 3 separate "incidents" with filter quality I wouldn't spend a plug nickel with this group.

graham is just the most perfect spokesman for this company, what you see here is just tip.

 

[ahsanford]

assume this doesn't work with the sigma 20mm 1.4 art?

Correct. You need lens filter threads for most standard systems like this.

As I'm guessing you probably have gathered, lenses with...

• No filter threads
• Non-removable/integral lens hoods
• Focal lengths under 16mm FF (ballpark, it varies)

...generally require (a) larger filters than 100mm and (b) some sort of collet/outrigger setup that works off of the outer barrel (or integral lens hood) of the lens.

These are usually sold in two pieces -- generic stuff for oversize filters and specific mounting hardware for specific lenses.

Here's specific you can do for that Sigma:

Wonderpana FreeArc: Main System / Lens Specific Stuff
(Note there is the original setup and the FreeArc setup and I'm not that versant with it. I believe Neuro and some others use it and could speak to that.)

Lee: Use the SW150 Mk II setup, all the details you need are here

There are other larger options out there but compatibility with that specific Sigma might requiring doing some phone calls / e-mails.

- A