Canon 4K DSLR Pics from CP+ 2012

[Wahoowa]

Not sure if anyone here have seen it or it's been posted:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150608619373746&set=a.10150608616988746.407599.165962118745&type=1&theater

It's an unnamed DSLR that is capable of doing 4K video, in CP+ 2012 exhibition in Japan.

 

[Tijn]

Re: Canon 4K DSLR Pics

Recording capacity equivalent to an APS-H size? What does that mean in relation to it having a full-frame 35mm sensor?

Does it crop the sensor to get 4K video?

 

[Z]

Re: Canon 4K DSLR Pics

Interesting! Why doesn't it have a name? Is it a prototype?

 

[marekjoz]

So it's like 18MP FF and each line from APS-H in final video output.

 

[Nick Gombinsky]

Re: Canon 4K DSLR Pics

Recording capacity equivalent to an APS-H size? What does that mean in relation to it having a full-frame 35mm sensor?

Does it crop the sensor to get 4K video?

S35mm, the film format used in cinematography, is actually the size of APS-H. RED cameras have APS-H sensors, its the closest standard to the actual size of film.

"Full frame" 24x36mm is bigger than the full frame of cinema frames.

I would say it crops it, rather than resizing it. The idea of using APS-H size is having the correct angle of view for lenses.

 

[tt]

Re: Canon 4K DSLR Pics

Interesting! Why doesn't it have a name? Is it a prototype?

The one on show seems to be a 1DX with a C sticker attached on top of the X (and without the writing above that).
A name might betray it's positioning and other positioning of future products in the ranges. They might not have worked it out yet. All sorts of reasons.

Would be interesting to see Canon do APS-H cropping of a FF sensor (like the similar capability of the D800).

 

[Policar]

Re: Canon 4K DSLR Pics

Recording capacity equivalent to an APS-H size? What does that mean in relation to it having a full-frame 35mm sensor?

Does it crop the sensor to get 4K video?

S35mm, the film format used in cinematography, is actually the size of APS-H. RED cameras have APS-H sensors, its the closest standard to the actual size of film.

"Full frame" 24x36mm is bigger than the full frame of cinema frames.

I would say it crops it, rather than resizing it. The idea of using APS-H size is having the correct angle of view for lenses.

Not quite. Super35 is 24.9mm wide.

The original Red has a 24.4mm wide chip, but it crops 16:9 video to 22.2mm wide.

Canon's version of APS-C is 22.3mm wide. So Red and the 7D have the same FoV for a given lens, and both can use cinema lenses and EF-S lenses.

The C300 gets it right with a 24.6mm sensor. The Alexa has a 23.8mm sensor. These cameras do it right.

The Red Epic and apparently this new dSLR have APS-H sensors for video, between 28mm and 30mm wide, the worst of both worlds--too wide for many cinema lenses (and, crucially important for Canon, too wide for APS-C lenses--the 17-55mm IS being nice for video) and too small to take advantage of big fast still primes. A bizarre no man's land. I get that this is just a modified 1dx, but that puts the price (likely) at half a c300. This is a very weird product. There are advantages to full frame video (the availability of lenses like the 24mm f1.4 for much less than cinema primes allowing you to go fast and wide) and advantages to APS-C (works with cinema lenses and EF-S, including the very nice 17-55mm IS) but this is an awkward sensor size. Not a deal breaker, but strange.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

This is the same experimental body shown when the C300 was introduced. Canon said they were working to develop it, so we might see it later this year. Its for video and stills, but is aimed more at video than stills. It will likely be $10K.

 

[pakosouthpark]

these 'c' cameras will be/are really expensive!! what will happen to their hd camcorders??

 

[waving_odd]

Not sure if anyone here have seen it or it's been posted:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150608619373746&set=a.10150608616988746.407599.165962118745&type=1&theater

It's an unnamed DSLR that is capable of doing 4K video, in CP+ 2012 exhibition in Japan.

They called it "4K Concept DSLR" for now, and it was announced as development in progress in Nov 2011.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon/newsroom?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e024803cf0aa

 

[Orion]

We can see where the rumors are going, regarding the 5D and the video options. . . . Like what we have been hearing of a 5Dmk III with better video than mkII and this SE type "5D C" with pro video features in a compact form with stills options as 5DmkIII has. It's like a $3000 (mkIII) system v. a $4500 ("mkIII C") system.

 

[Neeneko]

these 'c' cameras will be/are really expensive!! what will happen to their hd camcorders??

I am guessing they are intended to replace that line of cameras

 

[marekjoz]

these 'c' cameras will be/are really expensive!! what will happen to their hd camcorders??

I am guessing they are intended to replace that line of cameras

That will not happen. Camcorders have other advatnages: are small, have built-in optics, 20x optical zooms and easy to use. I can't imagine milions of families switching to Cinema EOS and going to vacations with gear more expensive than their cars just to record their kids playing in the sea.

 

[pakosouthpark]

these 'c' cameras will be/are really expensive!! what will happen to their hd camcorders??

I am guessing they are intended to replace that line of cameras

That will not happen. Camcorders have other advatnages: are small, have built-in optics, 20x optical zooms and easy to use. I can't imagine milions of families switching to Cinema EOS and going to vacations with gear more expensive than their cars just to record their kids playing in the sea.

i dont mean those family ones.. i mean these: http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/HDV/index.shtml

 

[Neeneko]

i dont mean those family ones.. i mean these: http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/HDV/index.shtml

*nods* that is exactly the line that I am wondering how the C300 fits in and if it signals a phasing out of that product line.

Thought marekjoz does bring up a good point, as PaS and DSLRs increasingly become multimedia devices, what will become of the dedicated 'family' camcorder? If it is not worth it to produce dedicated still cameras, why would it be worth it to produce dedicated video ones?

 

[Axilrod]

This is the same experimental body shown when the C300 was introduced. Canon said they were working to develop it, so we might see it later this year. Its for video and stills, but is aimed more at video than stills. It will likely be $10K.

Where are you coming up with the $10k figure? I'm just trying to figure out how a DSLR body - still features + different sensor = $3000 more than Canon's flagship still cam.... Just because it's 4K?

Technology is getting cheaper by the minute, I don't get why people assume just because it's 4K that it's going to be absurdly expensive.

There are tons of 5DII/7D video shooters that can only dream of spending $10k on a camera, and the 5DIII is a still camera, so why would Canon neglect that market so badly?

 

[HurtinMinorKey]

i dont mean those family ones.. i mean these: http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/HDV/index.shtml

*nods* that is exactly the line that I am wondering how the C300 fits in and if it signals a phasing out of that product line.

Thought marekjoz does bring up a good point, as PaS and DSLRs increasingly become multimedia devices, what will become of the dedicated 'family' camcorder? If it is not worth it to produce dedicated still cameras, why would it be worth it to produce dedicated video ones?

My guess is that this thing will still be limited in terms of battery life and storage. It's not the type of thing you'd use if you were trying to film a wedding. It also won't come with a nice cheep zoom. My guess is that body only, it will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000. This price keeps it well below the c300 and the RED Scarlet. In other words, this is will be Canon's offering to maintain its status as the indie filmmaker's tool of choice.

 

[Axilrod]

i dont mean those family ones.. i mean these: http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/HDV/index.shtml

*nods* that is exactly the line that I am wondering how the C300 fits in and if it signals a phasing out of that product line.

Thought marekjoz does bring up a good point, as PaS and DSLRs increasingly become multimedia devices, what will become of the dedicated 'family' camcorder? If it is not worth it to produce dedicated still cameras, why would it be worth it to produce dedicated video ones?

My guess is that this thing will still be limited in terms of battery life and storage. It's not the type of thing you'd use if you were trying to film a wedding. It also won't come with a nice cheep zoom. My guess is that body only, it will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000. This price keeps it well below the c300 and the RED Scarlet. In other words, this is will be Canon's offering to maintain its status as the indie filmmaker's tool of choice.

I agree, I just dont see what you could add to a standard DSLR body that would make it $10k, $4k-$5k sounds about right.

 

[RRJackson]

Re: Canon 4K DSLR Pics

Not quite. Super35 is 24.9mm wide.

The original Red has a 24.4mm wide chip, but it crops 16:9 video to 22.2mm wide.

Canon's version of APS-C is 22.3mm wide. So Red and the 7D have the same FoV for a given lens, and both can use cinema lenses and EF-S lenses.

The C300 gets it right with a 24.6mm sensor. The Alexa has a 23.8mm sensor. These cameras do it right.

The Red Epic and apparently this new dSLR have APS-H sensors for video, between 28mm and 30mm wide, the worst of both worlds--too wide for many cinema lenses (and, crucially important for Canon, too wide for APS-C lenses--the 17-55mm IS being nice for video) and too small to take advantage of big fast still primes. A bizarre no man's land. I get that this is just a modified 1dx, but that puts the price (likely) at half a c300. This is a very weird product. There are advantages to full frame video (the availability of lenses like the 24mm f1.4 for much less than cinema primes allowing you to go fast and wide) and advantages to APS-C (works with cinema lenses and EF-S, including the very nice 17-55mm IS) but this is an awkward sensor size. Not a deal breaker, but strange.

It seems like, based on what Canon's people have said about this camera, that it shoots stills at 24x36, but windows to APS-H when shooting video. I'm sure we'll know soon enough.

As for using APS-C lenses with IS, the IS system makes quite a bit of noise if you're recording audio with the camera. If you're using a sound guy with a shotgun mic and he can grab his audio from someplace where he won't pick up the grinding of the IS then you're golden. Speaking of noise generating devices, though, Canon's motorized iris control is extremely noisy for in-camera audio, as well. And of course non-cinema zoom lenses generally have problems holding focus through a zoom and distort more than you'd really want to see in video where you notice when someone's head bends as they move across the frame, something less obvious in stills.

While it's true that the APS-H image circle prohibits the use of some very fine cinema optics, there are plenty of good options. One of the really great options IMO is Duclos lenses cinema mod for Zeiss ZE lenses. It's less expensive than buying Zeiss cinema lenses, but provides a very nice alternative, IMO. They take a ZE lens and declick the aperture so you can smoothly and silently adjust the aperture on the fly. Then they add a follow focus gear so you can operate the lens with a follow focus rig. And finally they put an adapter on the lens so it will take 80mm lens caps and 77mm filters allowing you to accumulate 77mm filters and use them on all your ZE lenses.

And finally, you can "take advantage of big fast still primes" with an APS-H sensor, but the problem with all fast lenses is uneven sharpness across the frame. Again, that's something you don't notice as much in still lenses, but when someone goes out of focus as they near the edges of the frame you notice in video. My take on it is that you can never go wrong with macro lenses. And if you need shallow DOF you just increase the focal length until you get the isolation you need.

-Rob