Canon Disappointment

[East Wind Photography]

Well,....We are past information collecting now,..It's gotten to the point where everyone is trying to prove their smarts and debating skills.

Canon asked for $579 to fix a camera that costs $750 right now.

I was upset.
They dropped it to $350.

Now again, the guys that refuse to intelligently process information said: Ohhh,.. That was so nice in the part of Canon.
In fact they have sold me their repair of $350 which probably cost them less then half, therefore again making money in the process.

I would have never paid $579 to repair a camera that cost an extra $150 brand new and they knew that.

I do not like repaired stuff. We live in a world where most people are not pursuing excellence and as such, reassembly of a camera, is an extra procedure, with less oversight, that might make things go wrong in the future. Then the other thing to go wrong will not be covered by the warranty.

Somebody posted this:

"After shooting, playback and check whether the image has been properly recorded. If the camera or memory card is faulty and the images cannot be recorded or downloaded to a computer, Canon cannot be held liable for any loss or inconvenience caused"

Page 261:
"Before storing the camera or accessory when not in use, remove the battery pack"

Page 262:
"Do not store the equipment in dusty or humid places"

Basically these are written by lawyers and state that: Any camera can break at any time for whatever reason and Canon does not bear any responsibility.

Stop talking about Condensation,...Let's talk about Bad Circuitry and Bad Wiring.
That's why the camera went wrong.
Condensation it's just a convenient decoy.
Everyone glorifies Condensation, while nobody else can explain why oh why? the other cameras work fine.

Bad Circuitry and Bad Wiring.
Let's talk about this.
Is this a possibility?

Some busy little bee talks about assuming responsibility.
I paid for the camera twice.
Please allow me to be unhappy about it.

You are certainly welcome to be unhappy about it. However it's not best to super dwell on it too much. You now have two working cameras that will likely service your needs well.

Think of how much you will spend switching to Nikon or Sony? Lenses, bodies, flash. I would just use what you have until both reach the end of their service life.

There is a reason why Canon is used most by professionals. You can be unhappy but remember that other vendor equipment is likely worse.

Don't worry, I don't work for canon. Just a happy canon customer over the years. I still own an EOS 3 film camera that works as good as the day it was bought.

 

[Don Haines]

Bad Circuitry and Bad Wiring.
Let's talk about this.
Is this a possibility?

Yes, everything is possible....but what about probable?

Every component in your camera has a MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) It's a bell curve and everything is designed to be in the safe side of the curve for a normal lifespan. Occasionally, a component will fail far earlier than expected and you get a camera that dies out of warranty. There are a few things that accelerate the process, like heat, temperature cycling, impact, and humidity. Ocean air, with it's salt content, is particularly nasty and the bane of marine electronics...

When electronics that is "in storage" fails, the usual culprit is corrosion... and corrosion and humidity go hand in hand. It does not matter one bit if you like it or not, but it is the most likely cause of your problem. Personally, I hate it because I live in a climate that bounces between +40C and -40C and I spend my summers on the water, and often salt water. I am far more likely to have these problems than the typical user, so I take great care of my gear..... but even that's no guarantee. Shit happens and we are left to deal with it the best we can.

 

[TeT]

@Magnardo

We are not all a bunch of Canon Fanboys... it is unfortunate that your camera broke. You bought it sat on it and found out it was defective after it was out of warranty. Not Canons fault.

IF Canon 7D cameras had a history or evidence of breaking in this manner, then you would have an argument for them fixing it for free.

They don't:

it was nice that you got something from them...

I would add that waterproof bags are not good for storage in general.

 

[jhpeterson]

Yes, everything is possible....but what about probable?
Every component in your camera has a MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) It's a bell curve and everything is designed to be in the safe side of the curve for a normal lifespan. Occasionally, a component will fail far earlier than expected and you get a camera that dies out of warranty. There are a few things that accelerate the process, like heat, temperature cycling, impact, and humidity. Ocean air, with it's salt content, is particularly nasty and the bane of marine electronics...
When electronics that is "in storage" fails, the usual culprit is corrosion... and corrosion and humidity go hand in hand. It does not matter one bit if you like it or not, but it is the most likely cause of your problem. Personally, I hate it because I live in a climate that bounces between +40C and -40C and I spend my summers on the water, and often salt water. I am far more likely to have these problems than the typical user, so I take great care of my gear..... but even that's no guarantee. S___ happens and we are left to deal with it the best we can.
[/quote]+1 (and to the nth power!)

As a boating photographer I'm on the water a significant portion of the year. Far more often it's salt rather than fresh.
It's essential I take excellent care of my gear, since my business demands that it works. Yet, no matter what conditions are, I need to come back with the shot. Many times, those two forces are in conflict, and I'm forced to make a decision, balancing risk against reward.
Corrosion is something I can never avoid from the moment I set on the water. Over the years, I've learned a few tools and techniques, from on-water storage in dry bags and coolers to wrapping the bodies and lenses in Gore-Tex and neoprene jackets to making sure when I get back onshore of giving everything a thorough wipe-down. But, in the end, all I can do is minimize the exposure and do my best to mitigate the damage.

I feel bad for Magnardo. He's in a no-win situation. I've often been in the same one.

 

[Magnardo]

Old PR Pix Intelligently written points and arguments.
Thank you.

Also JHpeterson and slclick etc,... Everyone was cool about responding.
See,... you can have a smart conversation.

The 7D and all it's wardrobe is going on Craig's list.
Do not like refurbished products.

5D and it's wardrobe I will keep, until they decide to crap themselves, and if that happens, than I will put my Canon stuff in a Cannon and blow it up.

Will not buy new Canon stuff for a while.
I wanted the 24 1.4 and the 14 2.8...or maybe the 11-24 f4 zoom,...Even the 5Dr and 5Ds looked nice,but, right now,.... That's going to have to wait.

If trust gets broken, on a personal note, I have a hard time overlooking that.
We need to rebuild our relationship.

I saw a few of you guys talking about,... Gold level CPS.
Can you please explain what that is and how one will go about getting it.
Thanks.

 

[tpatana]

Things break. If you don't like it, don't buy things.

Of course it sucks when it happens to YOU, but crying and blaming the brand doesn't help anything.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Pelican cases and dry bags are a fancy way of keeping your cameras wet. If you do not have a bag of desiccant thrown into the case or bag, you WILL get condensation and it WILL kill your gear.

I really like that. Things that are good at keeping things out are often good at keeping things in.

 

[Marsu42]

I saw a few of you guys talking about,... Gold level CPS. Can you please explain what that is and how one will go about getting it.

Refusal to use Google and other symptoms make the op fit into the definition of "help vampire", one definition here: http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/19665/the-help-vampire-problem

 

[East Wind Photography]

If trust gets broken, on a personal note, I have a hard time overlooking that.
We need to rebuild our relationship.

Wow. So your trust was broken when you expected Canon to repair your camera for free outside of the warrenty?

Remember the warrenty is an agreement between you and the manufacturer. When you bought that camera you agreed to a 1 year warrenty. It's not a shutter count warrenty.

If that's the kind of trust you put into your relationships then I feel sorry for everyone in your circle. But I no longer feel sorry for you.

 

[Loswr]

Pelican cases and dry bags are a fancy way of keeping your cameras wet. If you do not have a bag of desiccant thrown into the case or bag, you WILL get condensation and it WILL kill your gear.

I really like that. Things that are good at keeping things out are often good at keeping things in.

Very true. I'll reiterate that it's a good idea to use a desiccant pack with an indicator dye, so you know when to replace/regenerate it. Personally, I use these Bel-Art cartridges in smaller cases (65mm in small cases, 100mm in medium cases), and this EvaDry unit in my large case.

The desiccant absorbs the moisture inside the case, the case offers protection – roofs leak, pipes burst, etc.

 

[jhpeterson]

I saw a few of you guys talking about,... Gold level CPS.
Can you please explain what that is and how one will go about getting it.
Thanks.

CPS membership is designed to provide additional support for full-time professionals. There are three levels, Silver, Gold and Platinum, as well as Cinema and Enterprise (designed for medium to large businesses). Which one you choose depends both on your price of admission as well as the amount of certain Canon gear you own (they have a list of just what items qualify), based on a point system. Silver requires 10 points and is free, Gold needs 20 points and $100 annually and Platinum cost you $300 and 50 points.
Looking through your equipment list, I'd say you're right around the 50-point mark. If you use your equipment as hard as me, I'd recommend you buy in at the highest level you qualify for. More than once, I've benefited from the extra attention.

 

[Sporgon]

Good tip on the desiccant that has an indicator. Reading through this and other threads about 'weather sealing' I think it's apparent that often as not it's what you do after using your gear in rain / high humidity / extreme changes of environment etc that can causes the problems, rather than the environment the camera is exposed to at the time.

Also overlooked by many seems to be the fact that water ingress, even in light rain, between the mount surfaces if there is no gasket, is surprisingly rapid. In the days before lenses had these rubber gaskets, and even to day for lenses that don't, I found two lady's panty pads, doubled over lengthways and held around the mount with a rubber band worked great. Still does. Others used to wrap a flannel or the like around, but my method was much more subtle.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

If trust gets broken, on a personal note, I have a hard time overlooking that.
We need to rebuild our relationship.

Wow. So your trust was broken when you expected Canon to repair your camera for free outside of the warrenty?

Remember the warrenty is an agreement between you and the manufacturer. When you bought that camera you agreed to a 1 year warrenty. It's not a shutter count warrenty.

If that's the kind of trust you put into your relationships then I feel sorry for everyone in your circle. But I no longer feel sorry for you.

Things break. If you don't like it, don't buy things.

Of course it sucks when it happens to YOU, but crying and blaming the brand doesn't help anything.

+1000

So, all this over $350

Many here have posted that they bought expensive gear when it is first available only to find it costs $1000 less a year later.
When you buy a $40,000 new car and drive it off the lot, next week it is worth several thousand $$$ less than you paid.
Learn the rules...play the game...if you can't afford it, don't play. That simple.
A lot worse than you have described has happened to many others but most don't go on and on about it in public crying like a baby.
Some people just lost their loved ones in a plane crash in France. Others are dying of incurable cancer. Others lost everything in cyclones or tornados or fires. Have some perspective. That's my thoughts.

After (finally!) getting through this long thread, entertaining as it is, the above quotes echo my eventual thoughts on the subject. I'm an IT guy, I see a lot of different failures and problems with technology and electronics of all kinds. If I took every failure and disappointment with a piece of equipment/software as personally as you have with this one incident, I would have shot myself in the head 30 years ago.

And after the devastating experience you had to endure wound down, you found a canon forum with some intelligent and active members (who gave you honest feedback) to share/vent your terrible experience with expecting... what? What did/do you want? Were you expecting everyone to just fall in line with you and say Canon sucks, they are a terrible company to be in a relationship with and so we will all sell our gear and join you in some kind of protest of how badly Canon screwed up a single piece of gear out of the millions of pieces of gear they have manufactured over the years?

And when you read many of the posts here, many of which echo the same points trying to help you, you literally call out every poster individually and... grade them on their conduct and worthiness of their posts? Do you realize that the longest and most tedious posts in this thread are from YOU, commenting on (and criticizing)... the other comments and members? We are so glad someone finally arrived after all these years to 'fix' all the problems we didn't even know we had with membership and advice.

Magnardo, seriously, on a positive note - welcome to the forum. I think you will find many of the members here very sharp, helpful and fun to interact with. But you really need to get some perspective. Many of the members here have shot tens of thousands of images with tens of thousands of dollars of Canon gear. Everyone experiences gear failure and they deal with it. It's just a fact of life. It sucks. But it's not personal.

 

[old-pr-pix]

Magnardo, seriously, on a positive note - welcome to the forum. I think you will find many of the members here very sharp, helpful and fun to interact with. But you really need to get some perspective. Many of the members here have shot tens of thousands of images with tens of thousands of dollars of Canon gear. Everyone experiences gear failure and they deal with it. It's just a fact of life. It sucks. But it's not personal.

... At this point the stage lights go dark, the curtain closes to the roar of thunderous applause. The show is over.


P.S. Thanks, neuro, for details on desiccant packs.

 

[jdramirez]

I saw a few of you guys talking about,... Gold level CPS.
Can you please explain what that is and how one will go about getting it.
Thanks.

I would normally have a different answer... but my answer to you is that it is for professionals and you do not qualify.

 

[awinphoto]

I saw a few of you guys talking about,... Gold level CPS.
Can you please explain what that is and how one will go about getting it.
Thanks.

I would normally have a different answer... but my answer to you is that it is for professionals and you do not qualify.

Usually when i answer with that, i get yelled at by the canon rumors community, with that being said, i've had a 5 year old 7d finally take a crap on me due to weather sealing and a bad circuit board, but then again, i also got my fair share of usage out of it so i dont feel cheated or jaded. I live in a dry climate in the high sierras, but, I've had cameras fail of me on trips to the coast and chicago, places with high humidity and whatnot... the cameras would work for like 1-2 hours, shut off and i would have to dry them out before they would work again. They were not submerged in water or anywhere near the water, but just high humidity, like hawaii, can be tough on cameras. Even if you look at the user manual, you will find recommended shooting temperatures and humidity...

 

[3kramd5]

Fact is, again,.... I have 7 working cameras in the house.
Likely Commonsense Conclusion? Condensation not bad.

Did your 7D ever leave the house without its seven siblings or are you being intentionally obtuse?

Condensation isn't magical. My son is learning about it now and he isn't yet four years old.

If there is water damage (easy to diagnose) and you didn't introduce your camera to water (taken at your word), condensation is extremely likely, not a 2% shot or whatever you pegged it at to suggest that there is a fundamental problem with the EOS7D that nobody else has run into in the 6 years the camera has been around.

Stop talking about Condensation,...Let's talk about Bad Circuitry and Bad Wiring.
That's why the camera went wrong.

That's quite a claim.

Everyone glorifies Condensation, while nobody else can explain why oh why? the other cameras work fine.

Nobody is glorifying anything, just agreeing that it makes sense, and since that's what the experts who diagnosed your camera think happened, it's a good bet that's what happened.

The other cameras work fine. If they all experienced the exact same temperature and moisture environments as your 7D, either you got lucky, or they will likely start having issues themselves. I presume however that is not the case.

I paid for the camera twice.
Please allow me to be unhappy about it.

You're more than welcome to be unhappy that your relatively unused camera needed a costly repair, but suggesting there is a design or manufacturing flaw that only affects you rather than a well understood phenomenon that everyone who has ever viewed a cloud can relate to is rather far removed from merely being upset.

 

[tpatana]

That claim that it cannot be condensation because other cameras are ok, is almost the most moronic thing I've ever heard.

So next time you drive on a nail, go ahead and blame the tire manufacturer. "The tires are defect, can't be the nail because other 3 tires are fine".

 

[jdramirez]

Usually when i answer with that, i get yelled at by the canon rumors community, with that being said, i've had a 5 year old 7d finally take a crap on me due to weather sealing and a bad circuit board, but then again, i also got my fair share of usage out of it so i dont feel cheated or jaded. I live in a dry climate in the high sierras, but, I've had cameras fail of me on trips to the coast and chicago, places with high humidity and whatnot... the cameras would work for like 1-2 hours, shut off and i would have to dry them out before they would work again. They were not submerged in water or anywhere near the water, but just high humidity, like hawaii, can be tough on cameras. Even if you look at the user manual, you will find recommended shooting temperatures and humidity...

It was hidden in the subtext... but we what I was hinting at is that we are happy to help those who warrant being helped. But... if you act petulent, or entitled... you may get an accurate answer... but it doesn't mean it is the full answer.

 

[Marsu42]

That claim that it cannot be condensation because other cameras are ok, is almost the most moronic thing I've ever heard.

This is not accurate - if you watch the threads on CR closely, you'll easily pick up many much more moronic things