Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Being Tested by Photographers

[Busted Knuckles]

I am all for flippy.

Would be intesting if Canon went giant DR and back on resolution to 20.

I agree the landscapers are S or R oriented. This is the wedding machine??? That would push to the low lights etc.

I have a T3i and I miss flippy when I swap back and forth.

Or perhaps high res with a nifty mid/small raw that would be noise/DR solution

 

[colorblinded]

Again, always bears repeating:

http://petapixel.com/2016/02/19/here-are-the-cameras-that-won-world-press-photo-2016/
(Also, see the highest rated comment below the story. :)

Award-winning photos taken on Canon cameras = 28
Award-winning photos taken on Nikon cameras = 12 (yes -- there are some EXMOR sensors in there)
Award-winning photos taken on Sony cameras = 1 (*zero* from the A7 brand)

In fairness, these folks would probably have won their awards with any camera, but the fact that they chose to stick with Canon through these terribly lean DR times speaks volumes. These folks (correctly) see the bigger value proposition of what camera to use. They consider everything -- sensors, AF, lenses, flashes, build quality, 3rd party offerings, reliability, ergonomonics, handling, service, resale, etc.

I'm not saying I don't want more DR, and I'm not saying your desire to have more is misplaced. I am saying that in the big picture, Canon continues to delight us in ways other than the sensor far far far more than my sensor is letting me down, and until that changes, I'm happily staying put.

- A

P.S. I'd honestly love more breakdowns of who uses what from other sectors than press photography, but I've had tough luck getting last 12-24 month sort of data. Please msg me offline and forward a link if you don't mind.

Yah canon had/has higher market share and thats the reason they got lazy. If a Sony can make those amazing sensors with having less than 5% market share of dslr, Canon also should be able to do so. I see pain and simple lack of drive to innovate there.

Lots of people often say, Sony is very innovative. But it is really hard to find Sony 'innovations'. Let's look at some of the ideas that made headline in recent years or months.

Mirrorless. Not a Sony innovation.
On chip ADC. Not a Sony innovation.
BSI sensor. Not a Sony innovation.
Pixel shift. Not a Sony innovation.
Sensor shift IS. Not a Sony innovation.
Dual Pixel AF. Not a Sony innovation.

Did I miss anything?

They've had their innovations, but when it comes to integrating all these features they're a bit like Apple. Not the first to the party, probably using a lot of ideas they didn't invent, but they're making it effective and useful for people in ways it may not have been before.

Also, a lot like Apple, I wouldn't really want to live with a Sony camera and lens system as my primary. At least you can get a Sony sensor in a mature system (Nikon) if that's what you want.

To the talk of DR vs resolution, while resolution affects dynamic range (given equal sensor technology), I would like to think Canon will eventually be able to compete at an even level, not rely on lower resolutions. It'll be interesting to see what the 5D4 brings, but unless they actually roll out a new process technology and other considerable changes, it seems like we're destined to continue to see small steps.

A company could theoretically go to a smaller process, on chip ADC, backside illumination, and stacked (foveon like) all in one new camera all at once if they wanted to. It would certainly shake things up. Don't see it happening with Canon, even though they've got plenty of the patents and demonstrated technologies to make most or all of that happen.

Although the flawed argument of "look, plenty are successfully using Canon, so it's not needed" will continue to be parroted, I hope to see Canon try to compete more with their sensors. In the long run, it's better for all of us, and better for Canon's viability in to the future. If they do start to slip in the market, new sensor technologies aren't going to hurt to have and better to be ready with them than caught even further behind technologically. Competition is good, but it hasn't really felt like Canon has been putting all their effort behind things when I look at their fear of having products overlap (potentially deliberately neutering some of them), and their slow pace of sensor advancement. Complacency is common when you're at the top, although I wouldn't say that extends to Canon's glass. Damn fine lenses they're putting out!

 

[Etienne]

A 5D4 with an emphasis on video has to have an articulating touch screen! Please!

 

[ahsanford]

Predicting

24-28mp
AF system similar to 1DxII
5FPS
4K 60fps
DPAF
1CF+1CFast
AF Mode switch like on the 7DII
Improved dynamic range
1/2 stop better high ISO noise performance.
Illuminated AF points the same as 7DII
LP-E6N battery

This would be a must have body IMO. I can't imagine the 5D getting 7 or 8 FPS it just doesn't make sense for the camera.

If it has the same framerate as a 50 MP 5DS, I'll eat my hat. It's 6 fps today on the 5D3 and the number only goes up over time.

I'd bet the farm on something faster than the current 6 fps. We've beaten up at length that a specialist wildlife camera (7D2) and a specialist high-res rig (5DS) each warrant two DIGIC chips while the 'all-arounder' 5D3/5D4 does not, but I still think 24 MP x 7-8 fps is more likely to occur.

- A

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Predicting

24-28mp
AF system similar to 1DxII
5FPS
4K 60fps
DPAF
1CF+1CFast
AF Mode switch like on the 7DII
Improved dynamic range
1/2 stop better high ISO noise performance.
Illuminated AF points the same as 7DII
LP-E6N battery

This would be a must have body IMO. I can't imagine the 5D getting 7 or 8 FPS it just doesn't make sense for the camera.

Huh? The 5D3 already does 6fps at 23MP and, for a camera, almost half a decade later, more than 5fps would be pushing it for 24MP? ;D

 

[j-nord]

Predicting

24-28mp
AF system similar to 1DxII
5FPS
4K 60fps
DPAF
1CF+1CFast
AF Mode switch like on the 7DII
Improved dynamic range
1/2 stop better high ISO noise performance.
Illuminated AF points the same as 7DII
LP-E6N battery

This would be a must have body IMO. I can't imagine the 5D getting 7 or 8 FPS it just doesn't make sense for the camera.

If it has the same framerate as a 50 MP 5DS, I'll eat my hat. It's 6 fps today on the 5D3 and the number only goes up over time.

I'd bet the farm on something faster than the current 6 fps. We've beaten up at length that a specialist wildlife camera (7D2) and a specialist high-res rig (5DS) each warrant two DIGIC chips while the 'all-arounder' 5D3/5D4 does not, but I still think 24 MP x 7-8 fps is more likely to occur.

- A

Canon bends over backwards to provide minor across the board improvement. The 5DIV will be 7fps. If they keep the m-pix low (24m-pix) maybe 8fps.

 

[CanonGuy]

24MP on a 2016 flagship body?!!!! I sincerely hope they do better than that.

I rarely need more than 24MP but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have the option. 24MP on 2016 is just lame.

 

[ahsanford]

24MP on a 2016 flagship body?!!!! I sincerely hope they do better than that.

I rarely need more than 24MP but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have the option. 24MP on 2016 is just lame.

The 5D# line never was flagship -- I'd just call it 'professional grade'. It's a balanced rig that is an 8 out of 10 at just about everything. Consider: the 5DS will outresolve it but suffer from a lower framerate and (we assume) a less useable ISO ceiling than the 5D4.

Nikon is similar -- the D810 is not categorically their top (non-gripped) FF rig. It's highest fps non-gripped FF rig is the middle level D750, while the D810 has what most would argue is a better sensor. Again, there is no single top dog in their tent either.

The only 'flagships' that exist anymore are the gripped 1DX2 and D5 rigs, which are not for everyone for a host of reasons.

- A

 

[lettherebelight]

... and the pixel count and video capability insanity seems to continue. If what many seem to wish for becomes reality I for one would be more disappointed than satisfied What I'd rather like to have is a better still picture-taking machine with outstanding autofocus. Use larger but fewer pixels and give each a higher dynamic range (16+ bit) with better signal to noise performance at higher ISO. This could do away with image stabilization thereby enabling simpler and faster lenses with higher IQ and allow for higher continuous shooting rates before saturating the data bus and hence improve utility for action and low-light photography. Far superior than extracting stills from 4k video. For video, I want a video camera. For stills, I want a still camera.

 

[ahsanford]

For stills, I want a still camera.

Righto, there you go. (See below.)

I don't say that to make fun so much as make a point. (I actually agree with you -- I only shoot stills.) But the days of stills-only or stills-comically-higher-priority-than-video cameras really only exist in the odd/outlier places these days -- Medium Format, Leica, film, etc. For everyone else, video is a ground floor expectation.

- A

 

[tron]

A 5D4 with an emphasis on video has to have an articulating touch screen! Please!

It is still a camera that shoots ... stills! Video is an addition (That's why it looks like a stills camera and not a video camera by the way :

 

[tron]

the metering might be much worse again with maybe no spot linked to AF point again? (just a guess, although other brands offer it at lower prices)

Famously, I have a bone to pick about this -- I've said numerous times that a budget Nikon D5500 has this, my iPhone has this, etc.

Of the following list of potential 5D4 improvements over my 5D3 (some certain / some possible / some hopeful / some dreaming):

[truncated]

Given that entire list, spot metering at any AF point might be 3rd most important to me behind general IQ and the AF system. Not kidding.

- A

no tilty-flippy please...

And others would say no to more resolution while others make that metric their top priority.

It's not a vision board, it's just a list of places the design might go. But I hear you.

- A

No tilty-flippy and no more resolution please .... It has to a mini 1Dx as much as possible (well apart from the frame rate which by the way please let it be 8fps - although I believe it will be 7fps)

 

[LhPhoto]

What are we thinking about price? any indication as to where this will sit compared to the 5ds/5dr?

 

[Mikehit]

... and the pixel count and video capability insanity seems to continue. If what many seem to wish for becomes reality I for one would be more disappointed than satisfied What I'd rather like to have is a better still picture-taking machine with outstanding autofocus. Use larger but fewer pixels and give each a higher dynamic range (16+ bit) with better signal to noise performance at higher ISO. This could do away with image stabilization thereby enabling simpler and faster lenses with higher IQ and allow for higher continuous shooting rates before saturating the data bus and hence improve utility for action and low-light photography. Far superior than extracting stills from 4k video. For video, I want a video camera. For stills, I want a still camera.

If people want higher FPS while maintaining quality, then when do we get to the point where you are shooting video and selecting which frame you want. We are certainly heading in that direction already!

 

[jeffa4444]

Same battery as the MKIII would be nice. Dual CFast I'd be OK with, but I'd like CFast/CF instead.

Very curious to see what the resolution and dynamic range parts of the equation will be. Shadow/noise and limited shadow recovery capabilities have been my biggest complaint with my 5D3.

I'd like to rely less on grad NDs and manual exposure blending. The broad dynamic range capabilities of the sony sensors, with the incredible shadow detail recovery, are too tempting for the kinds of things I shoot. I'd probably like something closer to 30mp, but either way, if Canon can't deliver at least the same resolution we have now with a considerable DR & shadow recovery improvement I may finally start trying to figure out how I would go about switching systems... and I don't want to, I like Canon better.

For stills exposure blending is possible now many do it. If the camera is 4K then likely your still require NDs of the IRND type the human eye can range over 20 stops no camera can do that currently.

 

[colorblinded]

Same battery as the MKIII would be nice. Dual CFast I'd be OK with, but I'd like CFast/CF instead.

Very curious to see what the resolution and dynamic range parts of the equation will be. Shadow/noise and limited shadow recovery capabilities have been my biggest complaint with my 5D3.

I'd like to rely less on grad NDs and manual exposure blending. The broad dynamic range capabilities of the sony sensors, with the incredible shadow detail recovery, are too tempting for the kinds of things I shoot. I'd probably like something closer to 30mp, but either way, if Canon can't deliver at least the same resolution we have now with a considerable DR & shadow recovery improvement I may finally start trying to figure out how I would go about switching systems... and I don't want to, I like Canon better.

For stills exposure blending is possible now many do it. If the camera is 4K then likely your still require NDs of the IRND type the human eye can range over 20 stops no camera can do that currently.

Of course not, but improvements in sensor technology reduce the number of shots where such techniques are required.

I'm more interested in stills and primarily improved quality at lower ISOs, Canon seems more interested in video and high ISOs. Frustrating to have your preferred brand's interests diverge from your own, I would hope some day we'll see more cameras that can do it all successfully.

 

[ahsanford]

What are we thinking about price? any indication as to where this will sit compared to the 5ds/5dr?

I don't know why I have $3499 in my head, but I do. I have nothing to back that up other than that was original asking price of the 5D3.

- A

 

[j-nord]

What are we thinking about price? any indication as to where this will sit compared to the 5ds/5dr?

I don't know why I have $3499 in my head, but I do. I have nothing to back that up other than that was original asking price of the 5D3.

- A

The 1Dxii had a lower starting cost than the mki so I'd expect starting price to be slightly less for the 5DIV than the III. My best guess is $3100-3300.

 

[ahsanford]

What are we thinking about price? any indication as to where this will sit compared to the 5ds/5dr?

I don't know why I have $3499 in my head, but I do. I have nothing to back that up other than that was original asking price of the 5D3.

- A

The 1Dxii had a lower starting cost than the mki so I'd expect starting price to be slightly less for the 5DIV than the III. My best guess is $3100-3300.

..and then there's the notion that the 5D4 will sit side by side (prestige-wise, pecking-order-wise) with the 5DS rigs, which came in at $3699/3899 depending on which version you got.

I'm not sure the price will necessarily decline over prior model, especially if it's the only 4K FF SLR on the market when it is announced.

- A

 

[bdunbar79]

What are we thinking about price? any indication as to where this will sit compared to the 5ds/5dr?

I don't know why I have $3499 in my head, but I do. I have nothing to back that up other than that was original asking price of the 5D3.

- A

The 1Dxii had a lower starting cost than the mki so I'd expect starting price to be slightly less for the 5DIV than the III. My best guess is $3100-3300.

..and then there's the notion that the 5D4 will sit side by side (prestige-wise, pecking-order-wise) with the 5DS rigs, which came in at $3699/3899 depending on which version you got.

I'm not sure the price will necessarily decline over prior model, especially if it's the only 4K FF SLR on the market when it is announced.

- A

Well, it's not the only FF 4K SLR on the market.