Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specification List [CR1]
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ahsanford said:justsomedude said:RickSpringfield said:Its true. You can be creative without technology. But couldn't you be more creative with better technology? Even the artists brush evolved over time.
^^^^ this
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If technology had no place in the creative process, we'd all still be shooting bellows cameras.
Give it a rest.
No one's saying technology is irrelevant, we're just saying -- in big, bold letters -- 1-2 stops more DR is not going to take your photography to new heights, and it's sure as hell not worth leaving your chosen camera company's ecosystem to obtain.
I'll take what Canon gives me because -- on aggregate -- they are still no contest the best fit for my needs w.r.t. service, reliability, lens selection, handling, ergonomics, budget, etc. To leave all that for a shade more DR seems nuts to me.
- A
I think these are very important parameters for a camera from an artist's point of view. And I would like to add another parameter: longer product cycles.
I like progress in technology but it is very important to me that the progress is combined in packages that make sense and give me real evolutionary or sometimes revolutionary steps. It gives me more time to use what I have instead of thinking what I could have.
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ahsanford said:justsomedude said:RickSpringfield said:Its true. You can be creative without technology. But couldn't you be more creative with better technology? Even the artists brush evolved over time.
^^^^ this
[truncated]
If technology had no place in the creative process, we'd all still be shooting bellows cameras.
Give it a rest.
No one's saying technology is irrelevant, we're just saying -- in big, bold letters -- 1-2 stops more DR is not going to take your photography to new heights, and it's sure as hell not worth leaving your chosen camera company's ecosystem to obtain.
I'll take what Canon gives me because -- on aggregate -- they are still no contest the best fit for my needs w.r.t. service, reliability, lens selection, handling, ergonomics, budget, etc. To leave all that for a shade more DR seems nuts to me.
- A
+1
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RickSpringfield said:
That is a strange statement. I don't think many photographer want to spend their hard earned cash on the newest and latest gear every 2 years for incremental updates with gimmicky bells and whistles. Bodies ain't cheap, and spending thousands of dollars on it and watch in devaluate faster than it breaks down or needing service for that matter, does not make a lot of people happy I would imagine.
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Memdroid said:
Well, that's a strange conclusion to the wish for more choice. You can actually opt not to buy the newest and
greatest. Try it, its very liberating.
What I certainly do not want is to have an upgrade every 4 years and still have nothing more than an incremental boost. The lackluster "upgrade" between 5DII and 5DIII actually made me wait 7 years to upgrade at all. At that was not even to the 5DIV.
Seems to me Canon is happy to let me wait 8 years before getting a worthy upgrade to the 5DIV.
I for sure would never even consider going from the 5DIII to the 5DIV if the rumored specs are true. I this case a lot of 5DIII owners will be waiting 8 years too to upgrade.
Somehow that 8 year drought makes a 2 year upgrade cycles sound like an excellent idea.
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Memdroid said:
Just cause there is a new body every 2 years, doesn't mean you have to upgrade every 2 years.
At the same time, you can watch where the technology is going... I'm sure many people that bought a 5D mark 2 has skipped the 5D mark 3, but to wait 8 to 10 years before seeing a mark 4 is ridiculous. Think about the competition that is pumping out a body every 2 years, they just sent out 5 bodies before Canon has between models.
Technology, just like anything else (except houses, certain pieces of art, vintage stuff and collectors edition stuff) devalues over time, get over it. I'm not crying that Toyota or any other car company releases new cars or models on a yearly basis...
AND, if you buy a new car this year, you can safely bet that there will be a new car next year, but you dont' wait for the next best thing nor do you worry that your car is going to be outdated a year later. In fact, you will most likely keep the car for 10 years before you buy a new car. But, suppose every car company kept Canon's motto of 4 to 5 year updates without serious changes, and lets say its a Toyota and you are eyeing the Corolla - might as well rebadge it and call it what it is - a '2016' Toyota Corolla for 4 years straight. It doesn't matter if you bought a 2016 or 2019 its the same damn thing... and if that's the case people will wait for 2020/2021 before a new car is bought.
Same with television sets, there is a new damn model every year. Nobody complains about that...
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I'd probably use company besides Toyota, they're actually known for only what was considered minor, incremental changes in body styles. Take the Toyota Tacoma, 2016 is the first true revamping of that model in many, many years and had many Toyota owners looking to upgrade, sitting on the fences, complaining, yet waiting nonetheless, as many are diehard fans... But it's their amazing reputation for "reliability" that keeps people coming back regardless of the very slow changes in their models over the years.mkabi said:
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mkabi said:
A pro camera manufacturer that does this fast refresh cycles does not demonstrate confidence IMO.
All the other points you made are correct but does not really apply to camera bodies.
But I am with you here that the 5d3 is long in tooth and the follow up should've been released last year. But it is still a kick-ass camera and a very strong competitor to all the 6 cameras that was released by the competition.
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Memdroid said:
The 5d3 is a great camera and still a strong competitor, I'd agree with that. The 7d was seemingly forever without an upgrade, drove me absolutely nuts. That said, the long wait on the 7D II is what finally pushed me to ordering my 5d3! I was tired of waiting and with all the rave reviews at the time of the 5d3, I decided it was time to go FF, most of my glass was EF glass anyway and I never looked back.
So perhaps Canon has some resources that point to a high enough percentage of people like me that will tire of the wait and purchase to the next level? That said, it would have to be a high enough percentage of folks like me that add to the bottom line of the "next level" sales numbers and that, I have no idea of...
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Maiaibing said:
Rewriting history? I wasn't following things closely back then, but I thought the general consensus was that the 5DII was a great camera but for its autofocus system. The 5DIII added top-of-the-line AF, keeping everything else roughly the same (there *were* other improvements, of course - cleaner high ISO, more fps, etc). What did they not add that you really wanted?
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I'm going to address most of what was said after I last posted, all in one post. Not picking on one particular person...
Use whatever word you want, "lack-luster" or "incremental"...
Compare the 7D to the 7DII or 5D2 to 5D3 or 1DX to 1DX2 or even 70D to 80D...
Your telling me that Canon - one of the most profitable companies, one of the biggest imaging companies...
Is not able to come up with something more substantial than that in 4 to 5 years?
Or they don't want to, Or you don't want them to, Or you have such low standards?
From my standpoint, I'm seeing a bunch of excuses for a company that most of us are not even apart of....
I'm a consumer.... Not a canon employee, not a stockholder.... I can careless about their profits... But as a consumer like most of us here, I want more for less, not less for more (as most Canon people on this forum seem to be)... But think about this as you are supporting any company, not jus Canon.... You are emptying your pockets to fill their pockets... So demand more, it's your money and your right. If you are happy with your gear... Good for you, but shouldn't you be out there shooting instead of coming online to defend it?
Use whatever word you want, "lack-luster" or "incremental"...
Compare the 7D to the 7DII or 5D2 to 5D3 or 1DX to 1DX2 or even 70D to 80D...
Your telling me that Canon - one of the most profitable companies, one of the biggest imaging companies...
Is not able to come up with something more substantial than that in 4 to 5 years?
Or they don't want to, Or you don't want them to, Or you have such low standards?
From my standpoint, I'm seeing a bunch of excuses for a company that most of us are not even apart of....
I'm a consumer.... Not a canon employee, not a stockholder.... I can careless about their profits... But as a consumer like most of us here, I want more for less, not less for more (as most Canon people on this forum seem to be)... But think about this as you are supporting any company, not jus Canon.... You are emptying your pockets to fill their pockets... So demand more, it's your money and your right. If you are happy with your gear... Good for you, but shouldn't you be out there shooting instead of coming online to defend it?
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Krob78 said:Memdroid said:
The 5d3 is a great camera and still a strong competitor, I'd agree with that. The 7d was seemingly forever without an upgrade, drove me absolutely nuts. That said, the long wait on the 7D II is what finally pushed me to ordering my 5d3! I was tired of waiting and with all the rave reviews at the time of the 5d3, I decided it was time to go FF, most of my glass was EF glass anyway and I never looked back.
So perhaps Canon has some resources that point to a high enough percentage of people like me that will tire of the wait and purchase to the next level? That said, it would have to be a high enough percentage of folks like me that add to the bottom line of the "next level" sales numbers and that, I have no idea of...
I am not sure it is Canon's defect when some of their customers get bored when the cannot buy something new every second year. I see people shooting awesome pictures with their 5d3. I just spent a long weekend in Venice with mine and never had the feeling my Camera acutally holds me back. Most people spend too much time finding shortfalls in their gear versus working with their gear, mastering it and improving their skills.
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scyrene said:
The 5D3's AF system uppercut the 5D2's AF system into another time zone. This is the single biggest upgrade the 5D3 received.
Most 5D2 owners who were bummed at the 5D3 announcement was hoping for a far better sensor -- more resolution, more DR, or less noise in higher ISO. Only the last of three occurred.
But the 5D3 did offer:
- A stellar AF system
- +2 fps
- More video recording modes, along with some obvious/basic course corrections for a more video-centric userbase (easier to tweak audio levels, inclusion of a headphone jack, etc.)
- Silent shooting mode (which is hugely useful)
...and the 5D3 sold like hotcakes. It may not have been all prior 5D2 owners buying them, but it sold very well.
- A
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mkabi said:
If you are unhappy with your gear.... Good for you, but shouldn't you be selling all your Canon gear and buying something better instead of insulting it?
Other people make better sensors. I'm okay with that. Other people offer 4K in cheaper ways. I'm also okay with that.
Canon does everything else better, and they have never let me down. That is why I happily stay with them.
- A
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mkabi said:
Some of us are out shooting almost every day with our gear, so we know its strengths and weaknesses. For myself, I try to counter outrageous, ridiculous, or just unrealistic rants and comments on here, and to bring a little balance.
I've had the 5D3 nearly 4 years, and the shutter count is nearly 120,000. I am just now getting ready to upgrade. And actually my next camera - the 5Ds - will have similar features across the board, except double the resolution, and apparently better quality noise at higher ISOs. And that is enough - not because I am an idiot, or unimaginative, but because I am still content overall with what this machine can offer me. It still produces excellent shots, quite reliably, in a whole range of genres and situations. And I don't see magic being made with these apparently infinitely superior cameras from other manufacturers.
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scyrene said:
FYI, I'm in a very similar boat to you -- 5D3, perhaps 100k shutter count. I'm sticking with my 5D3 and not upgrading as I don't feel my photographic skill/ability is yet on par with the tool I own. Not yet. I bang into some limitations of the 5D3, but most of the time that's because I'm being very unreasonable/undisciplined with time of day, lighting conditions, the breakneck speed with which I compose, etc.
Goodness knows I'd love to have (and would certainly use) a better tool that comes down the road, but I'm not convinced my photography will demonstrably improve with it. Until that time, I'll save my gear money for glass.
- A
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scyrene said:
Obviously did not... Lots of 5DII owners did not upgrade. Forums - including this one - are full of 5DII-owners scratching their heads while they wait.
Everyone has their own reason. What I lacked?: More MPIX (virtually same) , better picture IQ (except high iso no-one can see any difference and even here there's banding), lackluster low light AF (even if better overall), still relatively slow fps (not enough to matter). After a few thousand shots with the 5DIII it was clear - it offered me no reason whatsoever to pay 2x3.500$ to stay in the game.
It was an overall nice incremental upgrade. No more, no less. 3.500$ for the same pictures I was taking already? No way.
BTW, I consider this my best (non-)buying decision ever.
I got the new 300mm f/2.8 IS L II instead (not really worth the upgrade either for the price as that was also only an incremental overall upgrade). Looking back it was the far better choice.
Feel free to buy every new camera out there. I look hard at value. And I like to test before I commit.
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Maiaibing said:
Actually I'm confused. Are you saying the 5DIII should have been better? Or are you saying it's ok that the upgrades are evolutionary, not revolutionary? My position is, people complaining that Canon needs something fantastically new and improves every year or two are being unfairly harsh. Perhaps I'm conflating your comments with someone else's above, in which case I apologise.
That many 5DII owners did not upgrade may well be true - actually neither you nor I have any figures on it, so the assertion is merely opinion. But I can believe it. The question is, *should* people feel compelled to upgrade to the next model? The 5DIII *was* an upgrade in many respects as I noted above. Just because you or even most 5DII owners didn't find the considerable improvements in AF (number and spread of AF points, and later the addition of f/8 AF capability) and fps (3.9 to 6 is an increase of 50%), and other new/improved features doesn't mean the 5DIII wasn't a worthy successor to the 5DII.
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