Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

[Sarpedon]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

You realize that you are comparing with a7rii which is 2 year old right? Why support a company who's still playing catch up game after 2 years?

I agree: Sony is still playing catch-up on build-quality, reliability, AF, ergonomics, support, resale value, lens selection, accessory selection, etc. Why would you support a company like that?

Actually, if you watch the lensrentals.com of any of the G series lenses, they are on par with Canon these days, ditto for reliability, and the AF on the A9 sits between the 5D and the 1D series. The ergonomics are still inferior, but certainly usable. Accessory selection is lacking, granted. Resale value? You obviously haven't looked lately, because they're holding value quite well now. Lens selection - well, they've got pro grade lenses covering everything from FF 10mm (Voigtlander Heliar) all the way through 400mm. Yes, they have gaps in the sports prime lineup, but they just started shipping their 1st sports body a matter of weeks ago. Don't forget that the A9's silent shutter is a game changer. Nikon and Canon have no answer for it. Press core, pro sports (golf), etc. etc. Sony is now the only game in town.

I guess my point is, if you think they're not competing, you're SORELY mistaken. The old arguments you used before are mostly dead.

Speaking as someone who may switch bodies to Sony (or maybe a 5D IV), I think you're overstating the case here.

Ergonomics are pretty important, and if you shoot for extended periods, "usable" isn't exactly what you're looking for. I'm sure I'm speaking for others when I say that the act of photography itself ought to be enjoyable. Unless you're using a small lens on a Sony, you need a grip for comfort. By contrast, I've found every Canon DSLR I've used to be extremely comfortable and natural in the hand.

Sony's lens lineup is getting better, true, but it's not there yet (hence, "catch up") and for most models it's also very, very expensive compared to the competition, even Nikon.

And for a lot of your examples here, you're talking about the A9, a $4500 camera, and the only one so far to see the improvements you're citing. This is a forum about an entry-level full-frame DSLR. Not exactly comparable.

There's also the questions of battery life: better with the A9, but still not great, and terrible on every other full-frame model they have. Response time (image playback, buffer, etc) is the same story.

Haptics is another issue: I'm not sure they've solved it with the A9 (I'll be looking into it, in hopes that positive changes transfer to the next A7R III), but button/dial placement and quality leave a lot to be desired.

Finally, there's service and repair. I'm not sure Sony will ever be on a level with CPS, and it certainly won't be any time soon. Just google some of the horror stories.

Don't get me wrong: to me, for my specific needs, the 6D II is a huge disappointment and I won't be getting one. The 5D IV looks like the only adequate model in the lineup now for my purposes, and I'm excited about the possibilities a better A7R model might offer. But Sony has lots of issues and even if they're inclined to fix them, it's going to take a while. Their competition has been a force for good, but they're not the only game in town. They're not even the biggest game in town. If you doubt that, check out the "press core, sports" photographers you mentioned. You'll see a sea of white lenses, used comfortably in the knowledge that the equipment is reliable, and that if there are any problems they'll get a replacement or a loaner in the mail right away.

 

[Cory]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I'm not going to lie - my vagina just fell off.

 

[Sporgon]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I'm not going to lie - my vagina just fell off.

Is that a known effect of low DR ?

 

[Billybob]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

The 7D is at the top of the crop-sensor line, so purchasing it doesn't endanger sales of higher-end models.

What makes you think the higher end models are more profitable and must be protected? Price? That has nothing to do with the profit margin. Why is it people assume Canon is always trying to drive people into a higher price point?

Plus, the 7D is a sports camera for which low-ISO DR is a secondary, at best, concern. Therefore, there is no reason for Canon to intentionally cripple the 7D's DR.

Which cameras does Canon "intentionally cripple?" Differentiating one price point from another has nothing to do with "crippling a camera". Don't know why people want to call this crippling. Is a Ford Focus crippled because it is not as big or powerful as a top end Taurus? No. It is made for a different market and has a different price point for that reason.

The 6D, by contrast, was eating into 5D sales. What Canon found was that there are a ton of photographers who care only about getting the best IQ available.

Where did you get the sales data and where do you get the idea that the 6D was eating into 5D sales since Canon doesn't make that public?

"What makes you think the higher end models are more profitable and must be protected? Price?"

When I can get $1500 or more off the original list price of a new, USA or gray market, 6D like the discounts I can get with the purchase of a new 5D mark III or 1D X camera I'll take your comment seriously.

"Which cameras does Canon "intentionally cripple?" Differentiating one price point from another has nothing to do with "crippling a camera". Don't know why people want to call this crippling."

My definition of crippled is a bit more expansive than yours. It includes omitting a feature that other cameras produced by the company of the same generation have. More importantly I consider it crippled if it omits a feature that its APS-C twin has. And your car analogy falls flat. A more appropriate analogy is if a a Ford Focus can be had with a 250hp engine and Ford decides to make an Acura (its luxury brand) version of the focus but only offers an 180hp engine because luxury car buyers might prefer the low-end Acura over a mid-level Acura if it had the 250hp engine.

Yes, it is market differentiation. But it is differentiation by crippling features.


"Where did you get the sales data and where do you get the idea that the 6D was eating into 5D sales since Canon doesn't make that public?"

So you're telling me that no one purchased the 6D instead of a 5D Mark III? I suspect you could do a poll on this forum right now and find a dozen or more people who purchased the lower-cost 6D instead of the higher-end 5DMIII.

It's no secret that the 6D had a better sensor (no, I'm not going to provide links. Just search on Dpreview for comparisons) then the 5DMIII. It had virtually no banding, less high-ISO noise and was the choice of astro-photographers who shot Canon.

So, sure, you can throw the "where's your data" retort in my face. But the reality is that the 5DMIII was not a clearly better camera than the 6D due to the relative quality of the sensors. In some critical respects it was, in fact, inferior. Today, the 5DM IV has an unequivocally better sensor than the 6D II. I'm extremely skeptical that the choice wasn't intentional. But I'm willing to entertain any data you have to the contrary.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

If you doubt that, check out the "press core, sports" photographers you mentioned. You'll see a sea of white lenses, used comfortably in the knowledge that the equipment is reliable, and that if there are any problems they'll get a replacement or a loaner in the mail right away.

Or, in many cases, get a replacement/loaner by simply walking down to the Canon support tent/van/room at the venue and asking for one.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

"Which cameras does Canon "intentionally cripple?" Differentiating one price point from another has nothing to do with "crippling a camera". Don't know why people want to call this crippling."

My definition of crippled is a bit more expansive than yours. It includes omitting a feature that other cameras produced by the company of the same generation have. More importantly I consider it crippled if it omits a feature that its APS-C twin has. And your car analogy falls flat. A more appropriate analogy is if a a Ford Focus can be had with a 250hp engine and Ford decides to make an Acura (its luxury brand) version of the focus but only offers an 180hp engine because luxury car buyers might prefer the low-end Acura over a mid-level Acura if it had the 250hp engine.

If you are talking about a menu feature, sure. On-chip ADC? We're still debating that. If it turns out that Canon's sub $500 crop offerings start getting 13.0+ EV (at DXO) on-chip sensors and their FF offerings don't get the same courtesy, either it's nerfing or volume-sharing related -- keep in mind a 26 MP FF sensor is only going into a 6D2 while that 24 MP 80D sensor might get huge volume assistance from the entire crop line over time.

But if it's a mechanical demand, your argument won't hold water in some cases. The 80D has a 1/8000 shutter and a 1/250 sync because crop has far less material to move than FF -- it is easier and less expensive to deliver that functionality on crop than on FF.

So in the soup of cost containtment / nerfing / market positioning, I think it varies. The 6D1 had a boatload of things left out of it that the 70D and 7D2 received -- yet it still sold very, very well.

- A

 

[Cory]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I'm not going to lie - my vagina just fell off.

Is that a known effect of low DR ?

Not sure. My best pic so far was with my T1i so my world-view is now destroyed.

 

[meho1a]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Many of you are comparing A9 to 6D, which is irrelevant comparison. Not the same level of camera. So it is better to compare it with D750 for example ..around 3 year old 1700€ camera with better sensor and practically same specs. So you get rotating touch screen for 400eur.

 

[YuengLinger]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

It seems like a lot of people on this forum have elected to spend the extra money on a 5DIV. How does that qualify as a mistake on Canon's part?

I just did that 2 weeks ago, based on initial specs and suggested price it was clear to me that it was worth to own mkIV.

In my case, I bought it before the 6DII had even rumored specs and release date. And I had a learning curve with it, first accepting that ETTR wasn't beneficial, then seeing IQ problems that, fortunately, disappeared after the last firmware update, though my issue was not hinted at in the firmware release notes.

From day one with the 5DIV, I've loved the amazing AF, how it has added new life to my fastest lenses, including the 85 1.2 II, and works so well with the 100-400mm II + 1.4. And after the last firmware release, nothing but praise for the IQ.

What isn't beneficial about ETTR with the IV? (I actually just ordered one yesterday..)

I mean on my 5DIV, exposing to the right doesn't produce slightly better exposures as it did in my 20D, 60D, and 5DIII. It's the first Canon digital camera I've used that works like this. I'm finding it a little too easy to overexpose, get blown-out highlights, but the very good flipside is being able to work better with shadows and sharpening.

Don't get me wrong, highlights recover nicely, better than the 5DIII, BUT, it seems that the threshold for a true blowout is lower than with the 5DIII.

So, I had a learning curve which involved changing the ETTR habit I had developed. I'm extremely happy with the camera now.

 

[JohnUSA1]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

A very big shame on Canon.
Canon must get rid of the responsible idiots who are designing these new horrible cameras and making Canon hopefuls and fans very angry and disappointed.
I am very disappointed in Canon.

 

[Aglet]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

.. Don't forget that the A9's silent shutter is a game changer. Nikon and Canon have no answer for it. Press core, pro sports (golf), etc. etc. Sony is now the only game in town.

And Fuji and Panasonic and Olympus...

Olympus EM1 at half the price of the "pro" names

and for golf swing it'll do 60fps at full rez with pre-release capture too
CANNOT BEAT THE OLY IN THIS EVENT!

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Which cameras does Canon "intentionally cripple?" Differentiating one price point from another has nothing to do with "crippling a camera". Don't know why people want to call this crippling. Is a Ford Focus crippled because it is not as big or powerful as a top end Taurus? No. It is made for a different market and has a different price point for that reason.

But what if the Focus came with a carburetor instead of fuel injection? That's the sort of thing here, throwing a blatantly outdated major component into the product.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

A very big shame on Canon.
Canon must get rid of the responsible idiots who are designing these new horrible cameras and making Canon hopefuls and fans very angry and disappointed.
I am very disappointed in Canon.

You mean the same idiots who designed the cameras that have kept Canon the ILC market leader for 14+ years? Yeah, that'll happen… :

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I'd ask, other than FF mirrorless, objectively, what other unique features does Sony have for the future of their bodies? You can get their sensors in other bodies, you can get crop mirrorless with peaking and zebras and whatnot elsewhere, and the sensor quality gap is narrowing (6D2 aside). What does Sony offer that is unique? Maybe I just don't know, but I'm not specifically aware of anything that can't be gotten elsewhere.

Nothing unique, just a useful suite of features:

IBIS
4K (it's totally fine, just wear gloves ;D)
Adapting old glass
Using MF glass handheld through the viewfinder (for those of us who can't change our SLR focusing screens)
Amplifying VF light in dark rooms + the aforementioned MF usage on AF lenses when light is low
The option to keep your body + lens combo small if you want to

It's not for me, but it is for the patient tinkerers out there and the folks who will give their left nut for a better sensor but don't want to fully migrate.

- A

Isn't basically all of that (other than FF sensor) available on m43 and APS-C mirrorless ILCs? That's what I meant about "unique" - those features are all elsewhere.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

My definition of crippled is a bit more expansive than yours. It includes omitting a feature that other cameras produced by the company of the same generation have. More importantly I consider it crippled if it omits a feature that its APS-C twin has. And your car analogy falls flat. A more appropriate analogy is if a a Ford Focus can be had with a 250hp engine and Ford decides to make an Acura (its luxury brand) version of the focus but only offers an 180hp engine because luxury car buyers might prefer the low-end Acura over a mid-level Acura if it had the 250hp engine.

I love a good car analogy, but... check your brands there.

 

[YuengLinger]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

My definition of crippled is a bit more expansive than yours. It includes omitting a feature that other cameras produced by the company of the same generation have. More importantly I consider it crippled if it omits a feature that its APS-C twin has. And your car analogy falls flat. A more appropriate analogy is if a a Ford Focus can be had with a 250hp engine and Ford decides to make an Acura (its luxury brand) version of the focus but only offers an 180hp engine because luxury car buyers might prefer the low-end Acura over a mid-level Acura if it had the 250hp engine.

I love a good car analogy, but... check your brands there.

When did Honda sell its Acura brand to Ford?

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

I'd ask, other than FF mirrorless, objectively, what other unique features does Sony have for the future of their bodies? You can get their sensors in other bodies, you can get crop mirrorless with peaking and zebras and whatnot elsewhere, and the sensor quality gap is narrowing (6D2 aside). What does Sony offer that is unique? Maybe I just don't know, but I'm not specifically aware of anything that can't be gotten elsewhere.

Nothing unique, just a useful suite of features:

IBIS
4K (it's totally fine, just wear gloves ;D)
Adapting old glass
Using MF glass handheld through the viewfinder (for those of us who can't change our SLR focusing screens)
Amplifying VF light in dark rooms + the aforementioned MF usage on AF lenses when light is low
The option to keep your body + lens combo small if you want to

It's not for me, but it is for the patient tinkerers out there and the folks who will give their left nut for a better sensor but don't want to fully migrate.

- A

Isn't basically all of that (other than FF sensor) available on m43 and APS-C mirrorless ILCs? That's what I meant about "unique" - those features are all elsewhere.

I said "nothing unique", didn't I? They have great sensors and the ability to do mirrorless things. That's Sony's ballgame. Uniqueness has nothing to do with it.

Want unique? Um... go get a Pentax? Unique doesn't drive the market.

- A

 

[aceflibble]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Why is anybody surprised at this?

The original 6D was created specifically to mitigate the losses caused by the second hand market being flooded with 5D2s after the 5D3 had been around for a while.
The 6D2 is doing the same job for the 5D3. Now the 5DS/R/4 has been out a while, the second hand market is being flooded with 5D3s. (And even more 5D2s.) The 6D2 is made to address that; offer a new body at a similar price as the second hand units, with a comparable feature set.

This was never going to be a leader in low noise.
This was never going to be a leader in dynamic range.
This was never going to be a leader in colour reproduction.
This was never going to be a leader in AF.
This was never going to be a leader in video.
This was never going to be a leader in durability.

The entire point of the 6D line is to offer a new alternative to a used 5D series. That's it. They're not intended to be anything more. The 6D2 isn't intended to match the 5D4 in image quality, or any other regard. They're just a way for Canon to mitigate the used market. Nothing more, nothing less.


The way some of y'all are talking you'd think you had never seen or heard of Canon before today. They've been doing this for decades. Stop people from buying used by offering a slightly worse but at least brand new alternative at the same price point. They've been doing it ever since the A-1. You're (allegedly) Canon users and fans, y'all should know this by now and see it coming.

 

[canonlover]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

Why is anybody surprised at this?

The original 6D was created specifically to mitigate the losses caused by the second hand market being flooded with 5D2s after the 5D3 had been around for a while.
The 6D2 is doing the same job for the 5D3. Now the 5DS/R/4 has been out a while, the second hand market is being flooded with 5D3s. (And even more 5D2s.) The 6D2 is made to address that; offer a new body at a similar price as the second hand units, with a comparable feature set.

This was never going to be a leader in low noise.
This was never going to be a leader in dynamic range.
This was never going to be a leader in colour reproduction.
This was never going to be a leader in AF.
This was never going to be a leader in video.
This was never going to be a leader in durability.

The entire point of the 6D line is to offer a new alternative to a used 5D series. That's it. They're not intended to be anything more. The 6D2 isn't intended to match the 5D4 in image quality, or any other regard. They're just a way for Canon to mitigate the used market. Nothing more, nothing less.


The way some of y'all are talking you'd think you had never seen or heard of Canon before today. They've been doing this for decades. Stop people from buying used by offering a slightly worse but at least brand new alternative at the same price point. They've been doing it ever since the A-1. You're (allegedly) Canon users and fans, y'all should know this by now and see it coming.

Exactly.

 

[hbr]

Re: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Dynamic Range Talk & Sample Images

In Canon's announcement for the 6DII I found this paragraph:
“After just one day in Yellowstone National Park with the EOS 6D Mark II DSLR Camera, it was clear that dynamic range has greatly improved over its predecessor,” said acclaimed nature photographer and Canon Explorer of Light Adam Jones “ Landscape and nature photographers will be very happy. The new and improved autofocus is way ahead of the previous generation and performed extremely well, even in very low-light situations.”

It looks like Adam Jones lied, doesn't it?