Canon EOS 70D & 3D Prediction from Japan

[wickidwombat]

I dont use grips and with modern batteries being so good the integrated grip is pretty much a dinosaur except for maintaining best weather sealing, intergrated grip is something i would rather not have if possible 5D sized bodies with no grip is about perfect for me.

 

[AdamJ]

Interesting rumour. It's hard to believe that canon will come out with a 70d before a 7dmk2 as the 7d is older than the 60d...

Thats the nature of consumer v pro level cameras. The Ti cameras get updated yearly. The xxD cameras get updated about every 2 years. Anything in the xD level usually takes more like 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_DSLR_cameras

Also, if releasing a new 7D at $2000+ has the same effect as the 5DIII did on the 5DII (lowering the price 20%), than nobody would buy a 60D. They'd end up with the 7D costing the same as a 60D, and nobody in their right mind would turn down AFMA, 8fps v 5fps, weather sealing, etc for a swivel screen. Also, the T4i is getting the 60D's autofocus, so again, fewer reasons to buy the 60D. It's why it will probably get upgraded first.

I can only speak for the UK market but since the 5DIII's launch (at £2,999, about $4,615), prices for the 5DII here have been edging up. We certainly haven't seen any price drop since March, let alone a 20% drop.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I just picked up a 7D for $1300 CAD which is about 1260USD. If you guys were me, would you guys return it and wait for th 70D? I just use it for travel pictures and want to get into video making. Based on the MSRP of the 50D, the 70D would be around $1400USD?

This is a rumors site, its for fun. if you start making buy and sell decisions based on rumors, most of the time you will get bit.

 

[Ricku]

But will this camera show an impressive bump in dynamic range, or will it be another lackluster?.. Canon's next high MP camera won't steal the "WOW-factor" from the D800 sensor if it can't beat or at least match the DR.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it has the same DR + banding as the 5D3! :

It is sad and pitiful that Canon just can't seem to catch up in the DR department. I know there are fellow canonites on here who pretends that they don't care much about DR, but you all gotta agree that it is quite silly that Canon haven't been able to improve their low ISO dynamic range since 2007.

 

[moreorless]

But will this camera show an impressive bump in dynamic range, or will it be another lackluster?.. Canon's next high MP camera won't steal the "WOW-factor" from the D800 sensor if it can't beat or at least match the DR.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it has the same DR + banding as the 5D3! :

It is sad and pitiful that Canon just can't seem to catch up in the DR department. I know there are fellow canonites on here who pretends that they don't care much about DR, but you all gotta agree that it is quite silly that Canon haven't been able to improve their low ISO dynamic range since 2007.

Perhaps thats why Canon are taking the "1Ds" route? if they can't compete with Nikon/Sony on DR then going that route means there not in as direct competition with the D800.

The same could be true if the sensor was passed down to a lower end FF body (ala the 1Ds3 and 5D2) if the price were significantly lower than the D800

 

[Albi86]

As far as the 3D is concerned, I think it will be priced around 4500€ body only, so way above the capacity of my pockets What I think it will happen though, is that the 5D3 price will sink quite a bit. That could make it interesting.

With the rumours of a Nikon D600, I think Canon sees they haven't the technology to compete in the segment of a low-cost FF. I think they will bet on the 7D2, so offering a very high-end APS-C to compete with a low-end FF.

Honestly though, if the 70D has 22MP and AFMA for most users (probably me as well) it will be quite enough.

 

[moreorless]

With the rumours of a Nikon D600, I think Canon sees they haven't the technology to compete in the segment of a low-cost FF. I think they will bet on the 7D2, so offering a very high-end APS-C to compete with a low-end FF.

If they can come up with a 30 MP sensor then surely they do have the tech, its just a question of whether they can or will offer it at a lower price. Everything else needed for a lower level FF body has been around for years.

The rumoured 7D mk2 doesnt seem like it targets the same market as the rumoured D600 at all to me, a market that Canon have previously dominated with the 5D mk2.

 

[Albi86]

Exactly, I said "in the segment of a low-cost FF"

The 5D3 is not that amazing spec-wise, I don't see many ways to downgrade it heavily to around 2000€ body only while keeping it attractive. On the other hand, if you keep the new sensor, the Digic5 and a decent AF (even the now old 19-points one), reasons to spend almost double as much for the 5D3 grow thin. Nikon has much more room to manouvre in this sense.

 

[moreorless]

Exactly, I said "in the segment of a low-cost FF"

The 5D3 is not that amazing spec-wise, I don't see many ways to downgrade it heavily to around 2000€ body only while keeping it attractive. On the other hand, if you keep the new sensor, the Digic5 and a decent AF (even the now old 19-points one), reasons to spend almost double as much for the 5D3 grow thin. Nikon has much more room to manouvre in this sense.

I disagree, besides sensor resolution there looks to be many areas where a budget FF model could be downgraded from the 5D3...

Lesser AF
Lower FPS
5D mk2 level build
less than 100% viewfinder
1 card slot
Lesser video performance
etc

If Canon were including a 30 MP sensor that leaves them room to offer lesser specs than the D600 in other areas, perhaps not to the same degree as the 5D mk2 compaired to the D700 and not everything on that list but enough to differentiate from the 5D3.

6D

30 MP
4 FPS
5D mk2 level build
100% viewfinder
new 20ish point AF system
1 card slot

 

[Albi86]

Exactly, I said "in the segment of a low-cost FF"

The 5D3 is not that amazing spec-wise, I don't see many ways to downgrade it heavily to around 2000€ body only while keeping it attractive. On the other hand, if you keep the new sensor, the Digic5 and a decent AF (even the now old 19-points one), reasons to spend almost double as much for the 5D3 grow thin. Nikon has much more room to manouvre in this sense.

I disagree, besides sensor resolution there looks to be many areas where a budget FF model could be downgraded from the 5D3...

Lesser AF
Lower FPS
5D mk2 level build
less than 100% viewfinder
1 card slot
Lesser video performance
etc

If Canon were including a 30 MP sensor that leaves them room to offer lesser specs than the D600 in other areas, perhaps not to the same degree as the 5D mk2 compaired to the D700 and not everything on that list but enough to differentiate from the 5D3.

6D

30 MP
4 FPS
5D mk2 level build
100% viewfinder
new 20ish point AF system
1 card slot

A camera featuring a new 30MP sensor must be placed above the 5D3, so I don't see how it would come into play for a low-end camera. Not until the next generation, at least. Right now Nikon can offer a 24MP camera which would be quite fine and yet quite less than the D800. I'm not sure Canon can do the same.
VF coverage, video perfomrmances, lesser AF (if still effective) and such things are quite an acceptable loss for a -50% on the price tag of a FF with the same IQ level. Amateurs would be more than content with it. I would like it to be so, but I doubt it strongly.

 

[Marsu42]

22 MP
Same 19 point AF system as 7D
6 FPS
Vari-angle display
Magnesium body
Photo/video live view modes
AFMA

Yup, that should do it and make me upgrade. Basically, this is Canon marketing saying they screwed up the 60d specs (plastic body, no afma, old af). And to me, this looks like the 60d/7d fusion, though with lower fps - I hardly see a 7d2 above these specs.

Now we'll have to wait how the 22mp sensor does, but I won't get excited until real world reviews shows it has not only more mp, but significant noise and/or dr improvements, too.

 

[Orangutan]

It is sad and pitiful that Canon just can't seem to catch up in the DR department.

Ricku, this is the error you keep making: who says they can't? Maybe they just choose not to do so? Remember, Canon is a business and, according to the limited information the public has, their DSLR line-up appears to be profitable. It would be the height of (business) stupidity to throw their best tech into the market until they are forced to do so by their competition. E.g. why would Honda give you an Acura at a Civic price? That's one reason I appreciate the D800 -- it should put some market pressure on Canon.

It's legitimate to be disappointed with the product features, but you can't fault their business decisions. There is nothing "sad and pitiful" about a business making boatloads of money. And furthermore, we have zero information about what tech they could put into their product line.

 

[DB]

It is sad and pitiful that Canon just can't seem to catch up in the DR department.

Ricku, this is the error you keep making: who says they can't? Maybe they just choose not to do so? Remember, Canon is a business and, according to the limited information the public has, their DSLR line-up appears to be profitable. It would be the height of (business) stupidity to throw their best tech into the market until they are forced to do so by their competition. E.g. why would Honda give you an Acura at a Civic price? That's one reason I appreciate the D800 -- it should put some market pressure on Canon.

It's legitimate to be disappointed with the product features, but you can't fault their business decisions. There is nothing "sad and pitiful" about a business making boatloads of money. And furthermore, we have zero information about what tech they could put into their product line.

Plus Canon Inc.'s R&D spend has fallen over the last 2 years by a couple of percent to 8.5% of net sales (FY2011), still higher than Nikon's 6.7%, but the major difference is that Canon have stated anecdotally that Office & Industrial R&D is growing, thus implies 'Consumer' division (includes DSLRs) has fallen by a larger amount.

As you say we don't know the finer detail, nor will they ever tell us, but you can be sure that they're more interested in advertising/marketing spend (not adding features or improving sensor technology), especially for their new 'growth' markets (Emerging Markets + Asia, what their annual report states clearly) so that they can sell more units - box shifting - is the name of the game now.

 

[unfocused]

Before people get too excited, it would be nice if someone could provide a complete translation.

I went to the magazine's website and the English translation (a robot translation I admit) describes the article as "boldly predicting the future of full-frame and APS-C cameras."

This article sure looks to me like one of those regular features that Popular Photography and similar magazines do, where they gather together a bunch of "experts" and have them speculate on future models. In other words, not a rumor or inside scoop, but just speculation by editors and/or contributors to the magazine.

 

[Lee Jay]

I dont use grips and with modern batteries being so good the integrated grip is pretty much a dinosaur except for maintaining best weather sealing, intergrated grip is something i would rather not have if possible 5D sized bodies with no grip is about perfect for me.

Absolutely, 100% agree.

They did it with the 1V/1VHS, I don't see why they don't do it with the 1D bodies now. It's the major thing that turns me off to a 1-series body and the reason I've never even considered buying one.

 

[cliffwang]

A camera featuring a new 30MP sensor must be placed above the 5D3, so I don't see how it would come into play for a low-end camera. Not until the next generation, at least. Right now Nikon can offer a 24MP camera which would be quite fine and yet quite less than the D800. I'm not sure Canon can do the same.
VF coverage, video perfomrmances, lesser AF (if still effective) and such things are quite an acceptable loss for a -50% on the price tag of a FF with the same IQ level. Amateurs would be more than content with it. I would like it to be so, but I doubt it strongly.

For me MP is not the key point to decide high/low end camera. 5D3 has higher MP than 1DX, but 1DX if flagship. High MP will bring more details, but it trade off the high ISO and FPS. If a camera's value/class = features + performance + build. MP is only one of the factor for a camera's value. We don't know many details of the new FF camera yet, so actually it's too early to argue it should be 3D or 6D.

 

[aznable]

Plus Canon Inc.'s R&D spend has fallen over the last 2 years by a couple of percent to 8.5% of net sales (FY2011), still higher than Nikon's 6.7%, but the major difference is that Canon have stated anecdotally that Office & Industrial R&D is growing, thus implies 'Consumer' division (includes DSLRs) has fallen by a larger amount.

it's the 8.5% of a 100% that's 4 or 5 times bigger than nikon, and nikon has reduced expenses on r&d of sensors. my guess is that canon is spending more than nikon on r&d

 

[preppyak]

We don't know many details of the new FF camera yet, so actually it's too early to argue it should be 3D or 6D.

Well, the original post actually does mention specs (though they could be entirely wrong

30 megapixels, 1D-class body
Dual Digic5 processors for 6 FPS
61-point AF system, major functions same as 1DX
Equipped with flash (or speedlite transmitter)

There's no way that camera would cost less than the 5DIII, since it has all the specs of the 5DIII, dual Digic5, potentially a speedlight transmitter, and its higher MP. If they introduced that camera at $2500, it'd destroy the D800, but it'd also kill the 5DIII.

 

[cliffwang]

Well, the original post actually does mention specs (though they could be entirely wrong

30 megapixels, 1D-class body
Dual Digic5 processors for 6 FPS
61-point AF system, major functions same as 1DX
Equipped with flash (or speedlite transmitter)

There's no way that camera would cost less than the 5DIII, since it has all the specs of the 5DIII, dual Digic5, potentially a speedlight transmitter, and its higher MP. If they introduced that camera at $2500, it'd destroy the D800, but it'd also kill the 5DIII.

If the specs is true and for 2.5K, I will buy one for sure. Actually I may buy two. I think that will just not happen.

 

[moreorless]

A camera featuring a new 30MP sensor must be placed above the 5D3, so I don't see how it would come into play for a low-end camera. Not until the next generation, at least. Right now Nikon can offer a 24MP camera which would be quite fine and yet quite less than the D800. I'm not sure Canon can do the same.
VF coverage, video perfomrmances, lesser AF (if still effective) and such things are quite an acceptable loss for a -50% on the price tag of a FF with the same IQ level. Amateurs would be more than content with it. I would like it to be so, but I doubt it strongly.

You seem to be making the assumption that higher resolution must equal a higher end body, compairing the 1D4 to the recent Rebels shows that itsnt the case.

Personally I'd say that if the D600 specs are correct they'll loose Nikon more D800 business than the 6D specs I listed would Canon 5D3 business. I think the 5D2 showed that resolution comes first for a large part of the amature market, there prepaired to work around some weaknesses to get the best quality where as pro's want the most efficent system and only enough resolution to suit there business needs.