Canon EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]

[Don Haines]

Here's my guess:
10 fps
24MP with equal or slight bump in high iso performance
Better weather sealing
4k video @24 fps, 120fps 1080 video
$2300 starting price
Digic6 and a new video processor
Dual sd card slot
AF system like 1DX, but with fewer points
Headphone jack
wifi and gps
articulated touchscreen
wireless flash controller
Wide selection of colours (black). no pink.
still uses LP-E6 battery

 

[Random Orbits]

You don't disagree that Canon's strategy was wrong? That double negative means you think Canon's strategy was wrong. Given that the 5DIII has sold better than the D800/E, please explain the flaws in Canon's strategy...

Canon is developing a high MP body? They produced a 120 MP APS-H sensor, clearly they have the capability. But if your 'evidence' for an imminent high MP body is rumor posts, we'd have seen a new 100-400L over five years ago.

I think you miss the point. Westfall said Canon could respond quickly if the market demanded it. The fact that the 22 MP 5DIII has outsold the 36 MP D800/E and a7R supports the idea that the market has not demanded high MP...therefore, Canon sees no need to respond, quickly or otherwise.

Please note that 'the market' does not comprise a few complainers on Internet forums.

I don't think Canon's strategy was wrong at the time. Canon produced a 120 MP APS-H sensor, but at what price? I don't think they could have done it two years ago when the 5DIII came out at the D800 price. I don't think Canon could have produced the D800 two years ago at the D800 price period, which has nothing to do with whether or not the 5DIII was the right product for Canon to make.

I don't believe that Canon could have responded "quickly" if "quickly" meant a year. Now if "quickly" means 3-4 years, then yes it can respond "quickly." We'll have to see when/if a large MP body comes. If it arrives around 3-4 years after the D800, which is similar to Canon's pro product cycle length, then I would think Canon is reacting to the D800. If a high MP comes 5 or more years later (or never), then Canon decided that the high MP market was not worth its while.

 

[traingineer]

The more you know about photography, the less equipment you need.

It depends more on what you shoot. My TS-E 24L II is great for architecture, my 600/4L IS II is great for birds. Is knowing more about photography going to help me use a wide TS for birds or a supertele for buildings? :

Sure...great images can be made with a beat up film camera and a 50mm lens. But not necessarily of my chosen subjects.

I thought that 600 was used for capturing images of the mystical unicorns you always talk about.

 

[that1guyy]

Here's my guess:
9.3 fps (2 more than 70D, 3 less than 1DX)
28MP with equal or slight bump in high iso performance
Better weather sealing
4k video @24 fps, 120fps 1080 video slo-mo
$2100 starting price, falling to $1950 within 6 months.
dual digic 5 and digic 4 processor
cf and sd card slot, though sd card limits higher functionality
dual pixel AF version of the 1D4
Headphone jack
wifi and gps

Sounds more like a wishlist than an actual guess of what Canon might do but I hope you're right. My wish list is pretty similar.

 

[unfocused]

Here's my guess:
10 fps
24MP with equal or slight bump in high iso performance
Better weather sealing
4k video @24 fps, 120fps 1080 video
$2300 starting price
Digic6 and a new video processor
Dual sd card slot
AF system like 1DX, but with fewer points
Headphone jack
wifi and gps
articulated touchscreen
wireless flash controller
Wide selection of colours (black). no pink.
still uses LP-E6 battery

Very close to my earlier prediction

Note: this is not what a "wish list" but rather a prediction based on the market, competition and Canon's existing lineup:

24 mp dual pixel APS-C sensor;
Sensor performs marginally better than 70D sensor;
Autofocus equal to or exceeding the 5DIII;
Dual card slots, one each SD and CF;
Weather sealing somewhere between 5DIII and 1DX;
Mode dial replaced by 1D-style button (After CR Guy surfaced this rumor, I started thinking about it and it makes sense);
Touch Screen;
Integrated Wi-Fi and/or GPS;
Accessory grip/battery holder with weather-sealing slightly superior to 5DIII grip;
Frame rate slightly better than current 7D (Maybe 1-1.5 fps faster);
Pop-up flash with optical trigger (same as 7D);
Same back controls (joystick, click wheel, etc.) as 5DIII;
Fixed back screen (not tilting);
Video enhancements that I don't understand and won't use.

That about covers it.

I think you are a little high on the price; I don't see an articulated screen, but I do expect a touchscreen; I think it will have both a CF and SD card slot; I wouldn't be surprised to see some new configuration on the flash that allows for greater weathersealing; but basically I think we are pretty close.

 

[mkabi]

Here's my guess:
10 fps
24MP with equal or slight bump in high iso performance
Better weather sealing
4k video @24 fps, 120fps 1080 video
$2300 starting price
Digic6 and a new video processor
Dual sd card slot
AF system like 1DX, but with fewer points
Headphone jack
wifi and gps
articulated touchscreen
wireless flash controller
Wide selection of colours (black). no pink.
still uses LP-E6 battery

One can only wish... but I strongly doubt it. May be 1080/60p and quite possibly 2.5K , but definitely not 4K.
However, I am sure they may make another C version of the same camera, but expect the price to double.

 

[Loswr]

I don't think Canon's strategy was wrong at the time.

Oh, ok. When did it become wrong? When Nikon decided not to maintain two D800 models, both of which are outsold by the 5DIII, and instead are refreshing the line with a D800s, hoping that will prove more competitive? When Sony released a 12 MP version of the a7 because the 36 MP a7R was such a smashing success?

Or maybe you're saying it hasn't become wrong yet, but will at some point in the future. If so, let me know who'll win the next Super Bowl, so I can place a bet on your 'sure thing'. :

Whatever.

 

[unfocused]

...Given that the 5DIII has sold better than the D800/E, please explain the flaws in Canon's strategy...
The fact that the 22 MP 5DIII has outsold the 36 MP D800/E and a7R supports the idea that the market has not demanded high MP...therefore, Canon sees no need to respond, quickly or otherwise.

I don't think Canon's strategy was wrong at the time. . .I don't think Canon could have produced the D800 two years ago at the D800 price period, which has nothing to do with whether or not the 5DIII was the right product for Canon to make...

...If it arrives around 3-4 years after the D800, which is similar to Canon's pro product cycle length, then I would think Canon is reacting to the D800. If a high MP comes 5 or more years later (or never), then Canon decided that the high MP market was not worth its while.

Both Canon and Nikon responded to their customers. Nikon customers complained about Nikon's low resolution and Nikon overcompensated.

Canon's 5DII customers complained about the weak autofocus and were convinced Canon would just keep piling on pixels at the expense of noise and high ISO performance. (Go back and read some of the forum posts before Canon released the 5DIII.

Canon overcompensated by putting in an incredible autofocus, keeping the resolution almost the same and improving ISO performance.

Fortunately for Canon, their market research turned out to be more accurate than Nikon's. In fact, it was sufficiently accurate that they could charge a premium for the 5DIII over the D800 and still outsell Nikon by a wide margin.

I do think you will see a high megapixel body from Canon. It's just going to be in an APS-C format and called 7DII. (24mp scales out to more than 61mp in full frame). Why? Because a high megapixel 7DII plays to the format's strengths; it has a market; and it fits in with Canon's two-body strategy by nicely complementing Canon's full frame options.

 

[Random Orbits]

Oh, ok. When did it become wrong? When Nikon decided not to maintain two D800 models, both of which are outsold by the 5DIII, and instead are refreshing the line with a D800s, hoping that will prove more competitive? When Sony released a 12 MP version of the a7 because the 36 MP a7R was such a smashing success?

Or maybe you're saying it hasn't become wrong yet, but will at some point in the future. If so, let me know who'll win the next Super Bowl, so I can place a bet on your 'sure thing'. :

Whatever.

Yeah, because market research is always right. : Because the EOS-M was such a hit in the US based on their original market analysis that the USA was part of part of M1's product launch. Because the SL1 "met" their expectations too. Whatever indeed.

 

[Loswr]

What does this:

Yeah, Because the EOS-M was such a hit in the US based on their original market analysis that the USA was part of part of M1's product launch. Because the SL1 "met" their expectations too. Whatever indeed.

...have to do with your original assertion:

I don't disagree that Canon's strategy was wrong with the 5DIII vs. D800/E...

...to which I was responding?

Oh, I know – nothing. But you lost the original argument, won't acknowledge that you were wrong, and are instead moving the goalposts.

Sorry, not going to play that game.

 

[Random Orbits]

I don't disagree that Canon's strategy was wrong with the 5DIII vs. D800/E...

...to which I was responding?

Oh, I know – nothing. But you lost the original argument, won't acknowledge that you were wrong, and are instead moving the goalposts.

Sorry, not going to play that game.

That was an error on my part. What I meant to write was that I agreed with you that Canon probably did the right thing by making what the 5DIII what it is. However, we don't know for sure because the alternative was never produced. Who can say whether or not a Canon-like D800 would have sold as well. After all, Canon sells a lot more lower tier APS-C cameras than Nikon does even with some of the advantages that Nikon has (i.e. wider selection of crop lenses).

My original post on this topic was this:

I think most companies do not hold back because it's unprofitable. Why would you delay the release of something that will get you more profit? 100-400L II rumors have been around for years. Has it been held back all this time waiting for a 7DII or is it more likely that worthy successor to the 100-400L had yet to be developed?

I remember when the 5DIII/D800 came out, and Chuck Westfall stated that Canon had high MP technologies and implied that Canon could respond quickly if the market demanded more MP. Well, it's been 2 years and still nothing. Maybe the response will come this year, but it won't be cheap and it won't be across the Canon product line (70D didn't have it, 7D won't have it [according to rumors]). People that work in PR or deal with media are there to tell the outside world what the company wants them to hear. It's in Canon's interest that we think Canon can respond to the threats of other companies (so that people don't switch away from the Canon ecosystem), but they don't tell you when.

My main two points were

1. I don't think Canon holds back ready-to-produce products because it is less profitable in the long run.

2. I don't think Canon could have responded to a high MP challenge as quickly as people thought. Perhaps people thought Canon could have responded in a year; I think it's closer to a full product cycle (as clarified in my latter posts).

 

[pj1974]

This is my prediction (which I have written before - and close to what Don has suggested in this thread)

24MP sensor
improved ISO performance at both low & hi ISOs (eg lower noise, less banding)
10 fps, with 2 options for lower fps
AF system similar to 5DmkIII (good frame coverage, extra sensitive, mostly cross type AF sensors)
DPAF (slight improvement on 70D)
Dual Digic6 processors
1xCF slot + 1xSD card slot
4k video, at least 60fps 1080 video, with headphone jack and more customisation
Touchscreen (I hope, but doubt - it will be articulated)
wireless flash controller (probably radio)
WIFI and GPS
Similar black body / same weather sealing - including integrated pop-up flash
LP-E6 battery (optional portrait grip to house 2x batteries)
$2200 RRP

 

[flyingSquirrel]

As others have said, the 'quite high mp' is not only vague, but is relative to other things. e.g. a MP rating could be 'quite high' for an aps-c sensor, but that same count would not be quite high for a full frame sensor. Thus, perhaps if the 7D2 were an aps-c with 24 MP, I would consider that quite high, for such a sensor size.

What is this craziness about a 120mp aps-h sensor that canon made?!! That is insane. I recently had an unsubstantiated and highly ridiculous thought, which was: What if canon brought back the aps-h 1.3x sensor for the 7D2, but with more MP? Or what if they did a new crop sensor that is just a little larger than the aps-c, to get better IQ with more MP? This is all just ramblings of an individual who obviously knows nothing about the technology..but it's fun to speculate anyway

 

[Alino]

We will not see 7D2 to the world Cup anymore, the tester was spanish! ;D 8)

 

[Don Haines]

We will not see 7D2 to the world Cup anymore, the tester was spanish! ;D 8)

Could be worse.... Might have been Canadian and never qualified to go.....

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

We will not see 7D2 to the world Cup anymore, the tester was spanish! ;D 8)

oh man
and to think the very first team dumped is the one I said would win it all ;D
I guess I should've kept up with what has been going on with the team the last year and a half first hah.

 

[hajiaru]

Canon still making cameras like it is 2008 ;D

 

[privatebydesign]

Canon still making cameras like it is 2008 ;D

And images have moved on in leaps and bounds since 2008?