Canon not going global shutter with next round of EOS R camera bodies

[Canon Rumors Guy]

There has been a lot of hype around Sony’s a9 III announcement and the presence of a global shutter image sensor. Everything about the camera body seems to be marketed around speed, which fits the technology built into the camera. Almost immediate, there was some chatter if Canon would go the same route in their

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[kypr.eos]

And there‘s nothing wrong with that, IMHO. Based on Sony α9ΙΙΙ reviews, it seems that compromises have been made in image quality (such as quite rough noise at high ISO), due to the use of global shutter. I personally prefer getting the best possible IQ. I expect the readout speed of the R1 to be the fastest of any Canon camera to date, and considering that the R3 is already very good in that aspect, there‘s not much to worry about.

Of course, releasing a flagship camera without GS will be the main talking point of some, irrelevantly of how well the camera actually performs, but haters gonna hate anyway.

 

[Cyborx]

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do? Name it R2 and keep pro users ignorant for another 4 years? Hahahaha. So sad. But I’ll stick to my R6 mark II bodies for a another year or two. Canon, come on! Step up your game!
And second reason not to buy this R1 or R2 is because I am sure Canon will charge an astronomic price for it. Like we know Canon.
7000-8000 euro’s will be the price range.
For a camera that is already outdated the moment it hits the market. So sad.

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is, that I am just a very disappointed Canon pro user for many many years.
Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990 and I will buy two of them. But I am affraid they cannot keep up with their competitors.

 

[Canon Rumors Guy]

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do? Name it R2 and keep pro users ignorant for another 4 years? Hahahaha. So sad. But I’ll stick to my R6 mark II bodies for a another year or two. Canon, come on! Step up your game!
And second reason not to buy this R1 or R2 is because I am sure Canon will charge an astronomic price for it. Like we know Canon.
7000-8000 euro’s will be the price range.
For a camera that is already outdated the moment it hits the market. So sad.

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is, that I am just a very disappointed Canon pro user for many many years.
Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990 and I will buy two of them. But I am affraid they cannot keep up with their competitors.

Let me try to understand.

Sony makes the body for $6000 at 24mp, but Canon should make a 50mp body for $5000 or they're not "keeping up"?

Nevermind the weaknesses of a global shutter image sensor. We'll have to wait a few months to see if they have closed the gap.

 

[Exploreshootshare]

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that.

I thought so too, at first. But there are pics of field testing with the camera labeled R3 and those were taken weeks before the A1 was released. So, we were wrong...

Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990

Yeah, right. Sonys 24 MP offering which is not their flagship costs 5.999 $ plus VAT but you want a flagship model with the twice the MP for 1.000 $ less??? You need to check-in with reality...

 

[Richard CR]

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do?

we literally don't know all the caveats with what Sony did with this camera's sensor, and they jumped the price by $1500. With a base ISO of 250, that seems to indicate to me that DR is impacted and apparently noise as well, so it even sounds like it's a more traditional stacked global shutter design. It could be that Canon doesn't want that kind of compromise in its flagship model.

 

[vikingar]

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways.

Pros need their tools to work (*). They need their R1 to perform as well or better than the 1DXiii, and if it does they will buy it. If it doesn't then they'll stay with their 1DXiii. It's still a great camera, and when Canon introduces the R1 they want to make it a no-brainer to switch.

Personally I don't think they renamed the R3, simply because they wouldn't introduce something as risky as the eye tracking AF on a 1 series body. And I think they really want Quad Pixel AF on the R1 to keep feature parity with the 1DXiii as mentioned above, but that wasn't ready in time.

The global shutter is neat and clearly the way forward in the future. Some will adopt it early regardless of it's drawbacks because the tradeoffs are worth it.

But you also have to remember that many are probably still working with 1DX series cameras, and are not going to switch to a different system or even different Canon series and relearn all the ergonomics and potentially lose features or reliability just because of a single tech spec.


(*) full disclosure: I'm not a professional photographer, but I am a professional using tools in another field.

 

[Aussie shooter]

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do? Name it R2 and keep pro users ignorant for another 4 years? Hahahaha. So sad. But I’ll stick to my R6 mark II bodies for a another year or two. Canon, come on! Step up your game!
And second reason not to buy this R1 or R2 is because I am sure Canon will charge an astronomic price for it. Like we know Canon.
7000-8000 euro’s will be the price range.
For a camera that is already outdated the moment it hits the market. So sad.

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is, that I am just a very disappointed Canon pro user for many many years.
Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990 and I will buy two of them. But I am affraid they cannot keep up with their competitors.

You can't be too disappointed if you are still a Canon shooter. Honestly. Vote with your wallet or it is hard to take you too seriously.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

As long as the R5ii / R1’s sensor read out speed is fast enough (ie less than 5ms) then the image quality disadvantages of a global shutter will be the bigger problem for Sony. High iso noise and reduced Dynamic range are often cited as issues compared to stacked sensor designs.
If the R3 is the fast stacked sensor version of the R6II, then it’s pretty obvious that the R1 will be the stacked sensor version of the R5ii.
I personally will only want a global shutter camera if I can also retain or exceed the super low noise at high iso values and the really wide DR that I’m currently enjoying with the R6II.
I’m not trading a global shutter for anything else.
I’m not a R3 or R1 customer, I think an R5 is as high in the Canon linage as I would go. It’s a size, weight, performance, price
ratio.
however, I am really happy with my current R6II and R8. Best cameras I’ve ever owned.

 

[cgc]

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do? Name it R2 and keep pro users ignorant for another 4 years? Hahahaha. So sad. But I’ll stick to my R6 mark II bodies for a another year or two. Canon, come on! Step up your game!
And second reason not to buy this R1 or R2 is because I am sure Canon will charge an astronomic price for it. Like we know Canon.
7000-8000 euro’s will be the price range.
For a camera that is already outdated the moment it hits the market. So sad.

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is, that I am just a very disappointed Canon pro user for many many years.
Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990 and I will buy two of them. But I am affraid they cannot keep up with their competitors.

Canon released the 1DX Mk III in 2020, just 4 years after the previous model (also released 4 years after its predecessor).

So it is expected the new flagship to be released in 2024 following the same like-a-clock cadence since 2008, when digital cameras became mature enough. Canon didn't feel the need to "answer" the A1.

Canon likes to release proven, workable and usable products. Not so long ago it decided to go the mirrorless route and acknowledged the fact (publicly stating that their next flagship will be mirrorless) but consideres that professionals that have used DSLR and SLR during decades are still well served and can wait a little more for a proven, tested and fully functional product. Another example is keeping the mechanical shutter, to avoid certain image artifacts in some environments, while other manufacturers are starting to use fully electronical shutter.

 

[Maximilian]

The same source claims that Canon's next image sensors will have bigger advancements in performance than we're used to from a new generation of Canon consumer sensors.
We'll have to wait and see if Sony has solved some of the challenges with global shutters once the camera's final version gets into the hands of photographers and videographers. We imagine that they have.

Oh... tension

Will be interesting to see, what these "bigger advancements in performance" will be.
At the same time it will be also interesting to see, how well Sony's global shutter sensor IQ will be like.

All in all bad for GAS

 

[Maximilian]

Nevermind the weaknesses of a global shutter image sensor. We'll have to wait a few months to see if they have closed the gap.

The question is, who needs to close the gap? Isn't it?
Whether in IQ, market share, profit, or service quality or else...

 

[Profit007]

For many years now Sony have made better sensors, and perhaps they always will. They are the largest camera sensor manufacturer in the world and have more $ to invest in research and factories. In terms of sensor research & production they are kind of to Canon, what for decades Canon was to Nikon. More research, more patents, more $ to invest helped by Canon's profits from their other product divsions. Now Sony can do it to them for the same reasons.
Meanwhile, Canon make better exotic stills lenses. Take your pick.

 

[Exploreshootshare]

I am a bit torn right here...
Honestly, I don't care for a global shutter too much. Flash sync up to 1/80.000 sec sounds great and I'd love to be able to shoot flash at 1./800 or 1/1.250 without having a huge set-up, but other than that I am not intrigued.

Otoh, releasing a R1 in 2024 with possibly a stacked 50 MP sensor really does sound like Canon is late to the game, especially IF the A1mkii has a GS as well. The talk will be there, no matter what the disadvantages a GS will bring.

For me, I´d love sensors with a very low base ISO. My R has base ISO 50. Even I as an amateur can often tell the difference to ISO 200 or 400. I wonder what pics with ISO 25 or even 12 would like and how "clean" they are in terms of noise. That would be a really great improvement and something worth selling when the A9 has GS with base ISO 250.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

For many years now Sony have made better sensors, and perhaps they always will. They are the largest camera sensor manufacturer in the world and have more $ to invest in research and factories. In terms of sensor research & production they are kind of to Canon, what for decades Canon was to Nikon. More research, more patents, more $ to invest helped by Canon's profits from their other product divsions. Now Sony can do it to them for the same reasons.
Meanwhile, Canon make better exotic stills lenses. Take your pick.

Sorry i don't agree with you. Canon have consistantly made sensors that out perform Sony's in a number of key areas. It depends on what metric is more important to you as a photographer. You just have a make sure you are measuring both paradigms equally.
In the case of a global shutter, DR and iso noise are a lot weaker and sacrificed in the trade of global shutter speed. If that's important to you then yes the global shutter is better for you. If not, the the stacked sensor design from Canon will give you a better and more versatile picture taking machine.

 

[DhlcadR6]

My take is opt for Stacked BSI CMOS. Yes you only have no more than 1/500 flash sync speed, so you won't be able to use flash outdoor to take portaits that can turn into sunsets. And yes you won't catch Superman or Flash in the frame

Keep the MSRP of the cameras sensible please....I don't want 8000USD R1, 6500USD is pushing the limit back in 1DXx days. I'm willing to pay a lot for exotic lenses that last 20+years, not camera bodies that will be upgraded every 4~6yrs.

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do? Name it R2 and keep pro users ignorant for another 4 years? Hahahaha. So sad. But I’ll stick to my R6 mark II bodies for a another year or two. Canon, come on! Step up your game!
And second reason not to buy this R1 or R2 is because I am sure Canon will charge an astronomic price for it. Like we know Canon.
7000-8000 euro’s will be the price range.
For a camera that is already outdated the moment it hits the market. So sad.

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is, that I am just a very disappointed Canon pro user for many many years.
Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990 and I will buy two of them. But I am affraid they cannot keep up with their competitors.

Outsmarting with CF A cards on a9iii.....I will advise you switch to that and suffer with me. (Using a1 with the overpriced+slow CF A

For many years now Sony have made better sensors, and perhaps they always will. They are the largest camera sensor manufacturer in the world and have more $ to invest in research and factories. Canon make better exotic stills lenses. Take your pick.

For many years Sony have made better sensors, but terrible software to optimize the CMOS. From iPhone to cameras. Taking the IMX410 for example, Nikon managed to do the best out of it.

I am a bit torn right here...
Honestly, I don't care for a global shutter too much. Flash sync up to 1/80.000 sec sounds great and I'd love to be able to shoot flash at 1./800 or 1/1.250 without having a huge set-up, but other than that I am not intrigued.

Otoh, releasing a R1 in 2024 with possibly a stacked 50 MP sensor really does sound like Canon is late to the game, especially IF the A1mkii has a GS as well. The talk will be there, no matter what the disadvantages a GS will bring.

For me, I´d love sensors with a very low base ISO. My R has base ISO 50. Even I as an amateur can often tell the difference to ISO 200 or 400. I wonder what pics with ISO 25 or even 12 would like and how "clean" they are in terms of noise. That would be a really great improvement and something worth selling when the A9 has GS with base ISO 250.

Pixel and AF should be over the sensor readout speed. since we still have stacked BSI or tradtional mechanical. Sony is hyping up the GS train as the typical PR BS

 

[USMarineCorpsVet]

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do? Name it R2 and keep pro users ignorant for another 4 years? Hahahaha. So sad. But I’ll stick to my R6 mark II bodies for a another year or two. Canon, come on! Step up your game!
And second reason not to buy this R1 or R2 is because I am sure Canon will charge an astronomic price for it. Like we know Canon.
7000-8000 euro’s will be the price range.
For a camera that is already outdated the moment it hits the market. So sad.

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is, that I am just a very disappointed Canon pro user for many many years.
Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990 and I will buy two of them. But I am affraid they cannot keep up with their competitors.

Can't argue with much of what you said here...

 

[koenkooi]

[...]I personally will only want a global shutter camera if I can also retain or exceed the super low noise at high iso values and the really wide DR that I’m currently enjoying with the R6II.
I’m not trading a global shutter for anything else.
I’m not a R3 or R1 customer, I think an R5 is as high in the Canon linage as I would go. It’s a size, weight, performance, price
ratio.
however, I am really happy with my current R6II and R8. Best cameras I’ve ever owned.

I'd like see how modern denoising (Adobe LR, DxO DeepPrime*D) handles the additional noise before discounting a global shutter camera. Like you, I'm not an R1/R3 customer, the R5 is the largest size I'd tolerate.

I also just sold my R5, it wouldn't get much use till the insects and amphibians come out again and both the R8 and M6II are better suited for indoor family pictures, the R8 having HF flicker reduction for ES and the M6II only having MS.
I do miss the speed of the CFe when offloading to my computer and I have to be careful saying "I'll crop in post". But so far the faster, better and more accurate AF the R8 has for my use cases make me almost forget the R5

But now I have a nice head start with saving up for an R5 replacement, we'll see if that's the R5II or R5III

 

[Surab]

It might sting if one might not be getting the latest technological advancements, but I also think that for most users it'll be fine to wait 2-3 years before they can get their hands on it and Canon might also prefer to use the R3II low-MP sensor to debut a GS.

I think if the R1 can beat the Z9/A1 sensors in readout, maybe even mechanical shutters, at 50ish MP then it's going to be a hit.

Meanwhile I'm debating if I should get the R6 II or the R8 to save money... haha

 

[john1970]

we literally don't know all the caveats with what Sony did with this camera's sensor, and they jumped the price by $1500. With a base ISO of 250, that seems to indicate to me that DR is impacted and apparently noise as well, so it even sounds like it's a more traditional stacked global shutter design. It could be that Canon doesn't want that kind of compromise in its flagship model.

Exactly, Please provide me with a sensor with fast readout speed AND class-leading dynamic range!