Canon not going global shutter with next round of EOS R camera bodies

[Doug7131]

Keep the MSRP of the cameras sensible please....I don't want 8000USD R1, 6500USD is pushing the limit back in 1DXx days. I'm willing to pay a lot for exotic lenses that last 20+years, not camera bodies that will be upgraded every 4~6yrs.

The 1DX cost $9200 and the 1Ds MkIII cost $10400 if you adjust for inflation so i'm not sure you are being realistic.

 

[justaCanonuser]

Of course, releasing a flagship camera without GS will be the main talking point of some, irrelevantly of how well the camera actually performs, but haters gonna hate anyway.

In most real settings, the difference between a read-out-time of a few milliseconds and GS will be not visible in any images. If GS with a smart sensor tech (i.e. not only backside illuminated sensors but additional smart architecture changes to get bigger, well to the light exposed pixels) comes without IQ compromises, this feat may be much more attractive. So, in particular pro's and well equipped amateurs won't change gear only to have GS, I guess, as long as IQ is compromised. Personally, I'd always prefer IQ over GS.

 

[Loswr]

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is,

…that a troll is precisely what you are. And a hypocritical troll, at that. The worst kind.

 

[jam05]

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do? Name it R2 and keep pro users ignorant for another 4 years? Hahahaha. So sad. But I’ll stick to my R6 mark II bodies for a another year or two. Canon, come on! Step up your game!
And second reason not to buy this R1 or R2 is because I am sure Canon will charge an astronomic price for it. Like we know Canon.
7000-8000 euro’s will be the price range.
For a camera that is already outdated the moment it hits the market. So sad.TY

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is, that I am just a very disappointed Canon pro user for many many years.
Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990 and I will buy two of them. But I am affraid they cannot keep up with their competitors.

Here we go again. Just like with the R3, same old story. Sony is outsmarting Canon in many ways. The R3 would have been named the R1. But Canon could not do it after Sony came up with a 50mp camera a few weeks before launch. So Canon named it R3. I am 100% sure about that. Now they fail again. Sony releases an insane camera with global shutter, just a few months before Canon is launching the R1 without global shutter. So what will canon do? Name it R2 and keep pro users ignorant for another 4 years? Hahahaha. So sad. But I’ll stick to my R6 mark II bodies for a another year or two. Canon, come on! Step up your game!
And second reason not to buy this R1 or R2 is because I am sure Canon will charge an astronomic price for it. Like we know Canon.
7000-8000 euro’s will be the price range.
For a camera that is already outdated the moment it hits the market. So sad.

And go ahead, call me a troll, that’s fine.
The truth is, that I am just a very disappointed Canon pro user for many many years.
Give us the R1 with global shutter and 50mp for 4990 and I will buy two of them. But I am affraid they cannot keep up with their competitors.

That piss poor Dynamic Range in the A9iii from 1975 technology is a step backwards. I downloaded an tested the files. Lots of noise, 1 stop nearly 2 stop of loss. 24mp noisy crap

 

[jam05]

Thank God. I def don't want that noisy garbage in my camera. 24mp and nearly 2 stops of Dynamic Range loss in the low loss ISO for $6000 is bs.

 

[YuengLinger]

Nobody who knows me could convincingly claim I'm not a gear-head. I find myself talking enthusiastically about the pros and cons of gear as much as the actual photography at times. (Maybe other CR members can relate, suddenly realizing that whoever we're talking to has started to zone out. )

In fact, I don't really care what is inside a camera, but what comes out of the camera. It's all about image quality, performance, durability, reliability, ergonomics, price, and service when I decide what to buy.

Which has made it easy to stick with Canon.

(When it comes to lighting, I'm a Godox man--mostly. Sorry, Paul Buff, but you just couldn't let go of Balcar mounts and other problematic ergonomics.)

 

[EOS 4 Life]

As long as the R5ii / R1’s sensor read out speed is fast enough (ie less than 5ms) then the image quality disadvantages of a global shutter will be the bigger problem for Sony.

I do not see it as much of a problem for Sony.
The a9 series never had the best dynamic range.
Sony still has the a1 to compete with the R1.
Sony's main concern would be the R3 II.
My main problem with Sony is that they are claiming that their were no tradeoffs with dynamic range but it is evident that there were some.

 

[jam05]

All one has to do even before down loading the files and seeing all the noise and loss is to look at Sony's published A9iii naitive ISO. What garbage for $6000 + in 2024. Lose all that Dynamic Range. No, Sony did NOT solve the noise problem. You can't. Noise is inherent to a global shutter. Period.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

For many years now Sony have made better sensors, and perhaps they always will. They are the largest camera sensor manufacturer in the world and have more $ to invest in research and factories. In terms of sensor research & production they are kind of to Canon, what for decades Canon was to Nikon. More research, more patents, more $ to invest helped by Canon's profits from their other product divsions. Now Sony can do it to them for the same reasons.
Meanwhile, Canon make better exotic stills lenses. Take your pick.

"Sony reported a 29% drop in operating profit for its second quarter as the company suffered from weakness in its imaging sensor business."

Sony profit slumps 29% on chip weakness but maintains 25 million unit PlayStation 5 target

Sony reported a 29% drop in operating profit for its second quarter as the company suffered from weakness in its imaging sensor business.

www.nbcbayarea.com

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Otoh, releasing a R1 in 2024 with possibly a stacked 50 MP sensor really does sound like Canon is late to the game, especially IF the A1mkii has a GS as well. The talk will be there, no matter what the disadvantages a GS will bring.

Canon does not seem to care about such talk.
On the other hand, with their long release strategy they may have lost the opportunity to Wow anyone.
Nikon made a development announcement of the Z 9 soon after the a1 was released.

 

[Elgogo]

But my question is : Didn’t RED cameras solve the issues of Dynamic range with their Komodo cameras and global sensor ? Don’t they advertise like 15+ stop of Dynamic range and they are used in cinema where dynamic range is a most ?
Can somebody explain that to me ?

 

[jam05]

Hold the probes of an o'scope channel or spectrum analyzer in the air minus signal, what do you see? A line of noise. The global shutter has every single line of noise all at once. That's rudimentary, but that is what the problem has been since 1975 when Kodak invented the global shutter. A huge loss of Dynamic Range because of inherent noise. Sony's a9iii is no different. The published ISO sheet says it all. The downloaded files show lots of noise and th significant loss. Nearly 2 stops. That's huge in 2024 for a $6500 + camera body.

 

[jam05]

Sony a9iii = Fast noisy low light images for $6500 +. Add $500 for a grip. No thanks. And yes, the files are already available to peep. There's no algorithm that's gonna improve that bs.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I'd like see how modern denoising (Adobe LR, DxO DeepPrime*D) handles the additional noise before discounting a global shutter camera.

The target market seems to be pro sports and journalism.
Those disciplines do not tend to denoise.
Denoising is typical for wildlife but the a1 is more suitable for them.
Photographers of amateur sports would do with cheaper cameras.
Canon already has them covered with the R5, R6, R7, R8, and R10.

 

[jam05]

But my question is : Didn’t RED cameras solve the issues of Dynamic range with their Komodo cameras and global sensor ? Don’t they advertise like 15+ stop of Dynamic range and they are used in cinema where dynamic range is a most ?
Can somebody explain that to me ?

No. They did not.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

It might sting if one might not be getting the latest technological advancements, but I also think that for most users it'll be fine to wait 2-3 years before they can get their hands on it and Canon might also prefer to use the R3II low-MP sensor to debut a GS.

Provided it has adequate dynamic range, I think Canon's 19 MP GS sensor may be enough for the R1 II.
Although, folks would make the 5 MP difference sound like the end of the world.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

But my question is : Didn’t RED cameras solve the issues of Dynamic range with their Komodo cameras and global sensor ? Don’t they advertise like 15+ stop of Dynamic range and they are used in cinema where dynamic range is a most ?
Can somebody explain that to me ?

The Komodo still loses 2 stops of DR compared to the rest of RED's cameras.
It is also by far their cheapest camera so it would probably be unfair to attribute all of the difference to the global shutter.

 

[YuengLinger]

Some fans of other brands not only move the goal posts; they put them outside the stadium.

 

[jam05]

But my question is : Didn’t RED cameras solve the issues of Dynamic range with their Komodo cameras and global sensor ? Don’t they advertise like 15+ stop of Dynamic range and they are used in cinema where dynamic range is a most ?
Can somebody explain that to me ?

RED did funky noise reduction and limeted some of the RGB channels. In other words, they basically threw away lots of data to get rid of all that noise.

RED V-RAPTOR 8K VV Lab Test: Rolling Shutter, Dynamic Range and Latitude – plus Video! | CineD

Check out CineD's standard lab test for the RED V-RAPTOR 8K VV: rolling shutter, dynamic range, and latitude in REDCODE RAW HQ at ISO 800.

www.cined.com

The resulting output reveals clipping in some areas.

 

[scyrene]

My R has base ISO 50.

I'm afraid not; its base ISO is 100, the L setting (ISO 50) is simulated. Nikon have had bodies with lower true base ISO, of 64 I think.