Canon officially announces the EOS 90D and EOS M6 Mark II

Sharlin

EOS R
Dec 26, 2015
1,310
1,068
Turku, Finland
To your last paragraph - not unless there is 7D III or M5 II coming. Which, most probably, don't. Those who want to upgrade from either the 7DII or the M5, are losing some features. And without those features being replaced, OP has the right to call it whatever, even the crippling.
Well, assuming an R equivalent of 7D isn't coming.

Notable things from the spec sheet/brochure, aside from those we already know from previous leaks: panning assist in OVF shooting w/ certain lenses, DPAF in 4K, -5EV AF in LV, 5481 AF pts. in LV.
There is a panning SCN mode; not sure yet if it's available in other modes.

I have to admit, the missing 24p is baffling. It simply cannot be to protect the cinema line. There are so many other features that distinguish and separate Canon's cinema cameras. What is Canon thinking when it comes to 24p? Are they thinking it will push people to the R?
I wouldn't be surprised if less than 1% of all 80D owners have ever used the 24p mode.
 
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Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,308
502
I have to admit, the missing 24p is baffling. It simply cannot be to protect the cinema line. There are so many other features that distinguish and separate Canon's cinema cameras. What is Canon thinking when it comes to 24p? Are they thinking it will push people to the R?

These are nice cameras but missing 24p is going to drive some sales to other brands. It makes no sense to leave it out.
How many people know the differenc between 24p and 30p?
How many people can tell the difference between 24 p and 30p?
How many people need 24P?
How many people care?
Canon will consider all of these before designing their cameras.

I have no idea how easy/complex it is to add 24p to the repertoire but I guess it is not as easy as some pretend.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,613
1,142
Eager to see a review on DR, noise, low light...
DR: it's impossible to make a full evaluation from JP's DNG files, but to the extent that there are dark areas/shadows they do not band or break down when pushed. I would guess comparable to or better than the 80D which was good by industry standards.

Noise: JP didn't have any high ISO files in the zip archive I downloaded. ISO 400 looked typical for APS-C. The extra MP should help with sharpness deeper into high ISO so you don't end up amplifying noise with sharpening. But the noise itself is going to be similar to other crop bodies. (Everyone talks about low light, high ISO differences. But within a format shipping bodies are generally all within a fraction of a stop of each other.)

Side note: I thought DPReview's samples...or at least the ones I looked at...were soft and a bit "mushy." Could have been the lens, could have been the JPEG compression, perhaps both. JP's DNG files looked much, much better.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,613
1,142
How many people know the differenc between 24p and 30p?
How many people can tell the difference between 24 p and 30p?
How many people need 24P?
How many people care?
How many people will buy a different camera because it's missing? Why lose those sales over a software change? If the Magic Lantern team had the 90D reverse engineered they could add 24p tomorrow morning.

I'll defend some of the decisions based on the tiers these cameras are in. Compared to the competition in the same tier/at the same price point these look pretty good. People wanting a 7D3 at xxD pricing don't seem to grasp that.

But don't leave out a significant video feature which involves nothing but a few extra lines of code. Especially when you're struggling against the perception that you're behind on video.
 

koenkooi

EOS R
Feb 25, 2015
1,173
965
[..]
Side note: I thought DPReview's samples...or at least the ones I looked at...were soft and a bit "mushy." Could have been the lens, could have been the JPEG compression, perhaps both. JP's DNG files looked much, much better.
DPReview tends to make strange choices for the samples from Canon cameras, it's usually a RAW file run through ACR with sharpening turned off. Personally I'd use SOOC jpegs or use the default ACR settings.
The DPReview gallery does have CR3s available, running those through DPP with DLO should make them look much, much better.
 
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Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,308
502
But don't leave out a significant video feature which involves nothing but a few extra lines of code.
Do you know that for a hard-bitten fact, or is it an assumption?
Because if it is really that easy and that important why do not all manufacturers not do it at all levels of camera?
 
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Sharlin

EOS R
Dec 26, 2015
1,310
1,068
Turku, Finland
Now, what I'd really like to know is:
  • Whether the body is (at least partially) "aluminum alloy" as mentioned by some sources, or just polycarbonate like the 80D.
  • Whether the weather sealing has been improved; again, some sources say yes, others no.
  • What's the crop factor in cropped 4K mode (spec sheets suggest 1.18, making it probable that it's 3:2 downsampled from 6K)
  • Whether the electronic level is one-axis or two-axis.
 
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scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,781
908
UK
www.flickr.com
Never thought I'd go back to APS-C but the 90D is tempting me as a casual bird camera. It looks to be pretty cheap, the resolution is a big step up, and although I've generally been content with 5-6fps I'd not mind a bit more. I'll watch where the price goes in the next few months.
 

Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
1,924
1,267
How many people will buy a different camera because it's missing?
Not enough to pay for extra support hours from people who misuse this mode without understanding what it is for?

Why lose those sales over a software change? If the Magic Lantern team had the 90D reverse engineered they could add 24p tomorrow morning.
Maybe. But then the question "why my videos flicker" would be directed at Magic Lantern.
 
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SlydeR

EOS M50
Mar 14, 2014
31
9
Screenshot from Official spec sheet on Canon website...I've attached the pdf

I have to admit, the missing 24p is baffling. It simply cannot be to protect the cinema line. There are so many other features that distinguish and separate Canon's cinema cameras. What is Canon thinking when it comes to 24p? Are they thinking it will push people to the R?

These are nice cameras but missing 24p is going to drive some sales to other brands. It makes no sense to leave it out.
 

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Sharlin

EOS R
Dec 26, 2015
1,310
1,068
Turku, Finland
Screenshot from Official spec sheet on Canon website...I've attached the pdf
Yes, this is interesting. But it is possible that those modes have been accidentally left there if the 80D spec sheet has been used as a starting point. Canon UK specs don't mention MOV, ALL-I, or 24p modes.
 
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pknight

EOS M6 Mark II
Jun 10, 2012
68
8
I think that those of you suggesting that 7DII users want a 7DIII at the $1200 price point are simply wrong. I would pay substantially more than $1200 for a real 7DIII, with two card slots, improved FPS, dual processors, 65+ AF points, etc. The 90D is going to have to have amazing IQ and AF performance (relative to the 7DII) for me to consider a purchase.
 

amorse

EOS RP
Jan 26, 2017
666
816
www.instagram.com
Do you know that for a hard-bitten fact, or is it an assumption?
Because if it is really that easy and that important why do not all manufacturers not do it at all levels of camera?
To be fair, Canon has included 24p in nearly every ILC they have released since they started putting video in cameras. Up until now, 24p 1080 was in every ILC Canon has released since the 5D II with three exceptions: Canon RP, T1, T1i. Both the T1 and T1i models were released only months after the 5DII, and offered 20 fps instead (I'm going to bet technical limitation there), but the RP seemed to be a purposeful omission. Even the 4000D with its plastic mount has 1080/24. Neuro and I had a good back and forth on this not long ago and supposed that maybe Canon was not including 24p from new cameras as a change in direction or philosophy on video. He may well have been right in seeing the final specifications here.

Frankly, I don't understand the choice by Canon as it has been feasible to put on every camera up and down the lineup until now, but no longer. I'm no engineer so maybe a new sensor architecture is impacting inclusion of the rate, or maybe Canon is choosing not to include it. I really don't understand why they'd choose not to include it, but then again I don't run a multi-billion dollar camera company either.

For me, even if a very small number of people actually use the feature, it is just baiting criticism and negative review. It wouldn't impact my use and wouldn't likely stop me from buying it, but I don't see why they're creating reasons to criticize the camera.