Canon Working on Full Frame Fixed Lens Camera? [CR1]

[Luds34]

I wonder if this is a way for Canon to test the waters with a pro style mirrorless type body without actually having to decide or commit to the mirrorless mount?

 

[gmrza]

If there's a market for such a camera, fine for Canon.
I am not part of this market.
As long as this is not limiting the resources for DSLR, MILC and lens development I don't bother.

This kind of camera looks like a move on the part of Canon to test product features or technology on a limited basis - i.e. a camera that will appeal to a market niche. This would allow them to get a feature into the market on a limited basis without having to commit to large scale production or the risks of having issues with very large numbers of customers if there are problems.

 

[Bob Howland]

Never seen the point of a fixed lens full frame camera the lens regardless of how good it is will be its limiting factor I can think of much better ways of spending $ 3,000. Now if its a mirrorless camera however Im interested.

+1, plus this thing is supposed to have a fixed focal length lens.

 

[AvTvM]

The very last thing I would need or ask Canon for. A Sony RX1 competitor ... 5 years too late. Stupid non-changeanle 35mm lens bolted in front of some subpar Canon sensor. Priced sky-high.

That's why I believe this rumor. I hope Canon brings tvis camera to market and sells exactly as many copies as Sony sells R1X/R1,2s and Leica sells Q's.

Why oh why cant the suckers not just bring a decent EOS M body fully competitive with Sony A6000 (6100) and a Ff MIL system fully competitive with Sony A7 II series? Why only fat old mirrorslappers and multiple-crippled mirrorless
cameras?

 

[PureClassA]

The only part you can argue that's "stupid" is making their first dive into this pool being a $3000 device. $3000 that has an interchangable EF mount natively would be another story.

The very last thing I would need or ask Canon for. A Sony RX1 competitor ... 5 years too late. Stupid non-changeanle 35mm lens bolted in front of some subpar Canon sensor. Priced sky-high.

That's why I believe this rumor. I hope Canon brings tvis camera to market and sells exactly as many copies as Sony sells R1X/R1,2s and Leica sells Q's.

Why oh why cant the suckers not just bring a decent EOS M body fully competitive with Sony A6000 (6100) and a Ff MIL system fully competitive with Sony A7 II series? Why only fat old mirrorslappers and multiple-crippled mirrorless
cameras?

 

[pwp]

This is a number of years behind the play. Make it a MILC. Canon just alienated a huge chunk of potential buyers making this a fixed lens camera. Sigh...

-pw

 

[Nininini]

If there's a market for such a camera, fine for Canon.
I am not part of this market.

I don't think there is a market for it. Fuji and Canon can't command anywhere near the same prices as Leica, even though they try it every couple of years.

Fuji especially has been trying for years to take part of Leica's market, with little success, the premium market is far out of their reach. Instead of attracting people with large disposable income looking for quality, like Leica, Fuji has attracted hipsters.

 

[tr573]

Re: Canon Working on Full Frame Fixed Lens Camera? [CR1

However, I do find it interesting how unhappy you were with the lens. Did you have a bad copy or do you believe the fixed lens is really that weak? The new XF lenses from Fuji are generally held in very high regard optically. My limited experience/exposure with them has left me quite impressed.

The lens is good wide open , but not amazing, and only at a decent distance. Anything closer in than a few feet, and the lens has a lot of hazy SA , so you get that dreamy low contrast look from it.

 

[Nininini]

Below is an example of what I am talking about, 35 f2 IS @ f2 with a ff camera, you can't do that dof control on a crop camera.

Nothing in your picture is in focus or sharp. Your subject isn't in focus either.

Blame your technique instead of crop cameras.

 

[HighLowISO]

Make it $1,500 US and they have something pretty interesting especially with a great sensor. If it had a 50Mp sensor they could have a couple crop modes and it would be like 3 lenses in one and still have decent resolution. If they were going to do that though they probably would have a lens wider than 35 to start with. $1,500 and I'd be very interested in what it can do. If if they use Blue-Goo I just don't think the market is that big at $3,000.... but maybe Fujifilm has shown the market is bigger than I might think even at the high price, but Sony seems to indicate that the fixed lens market is more price sensitive.

 

[Larsskv]

Re: Canon Working on Full Frame Fixed Lens Camera? [CR1

However, I do find it interesting how unhappy you were with the lens. Did you have a bad copy or do you believe the fixed lens is really that weak? The new XF lenses from Fuji are generally held in very high regard optically. My limited experience/exposure with them has left me quite impressed.

The lens is good wide open , but not amazing, and only at a decent distance. Anything closer in than a few feet, and the lens has a lot of hazy SA , so you get that dreamy low contrast look from it.

I don't think I had a good copy, but I tried to find comparable images online. I remember it was hard finding pictures of it wide open (every picture that was demonstrating sharpness didn't have corners in focus, or was shot at f/8) but those I found had similarities to my camera. I had to stop down to f/11 to get corner to corner sharpness.

A lot of negative things can be said about the EOS-M, but the lenses for it, and especially to 22 f/2 are great. Considering their price, I believe they are the best buys in the mirror less market.

 

[StudentOfLight]

Target customer:
A) Brand led - Customer is extremely loyal to the brand.
e.g. Canon makes that XC10 camera, yeah just add that to my order as well

B) Price led - Lowest price wins for this customer
e.g. No way $3000 is too much. I'm not willing to pay more than $,$$$ for a point and shoot

C) Value led - This customer takes a calculated approach to purchasing
e.g. Hmmm... Compared to the Leica this offers pretty good performance, also it has more resolution and a slightly better lens than the Sony, also the new sensor performs better than the 5DsR and it's in a more discrete package, also it's full frame unlike the Fuji cameras, also it's backed by Canon's after-sales service. Seems like this could work for me.

Group A is a small niche.
Group B is a huge proportion of the market but will not provide a quick return on investment
Group C is a tough crowd to please as there are many different needs in the market and a huge range of products with different strengths and weaknesses

 

[aclectasis]

AHAHAHAHAHAH

Canon's last fixed-length camera went so well...

 

[Nininini]

Target customer:
A) Brand led - Customer is extremely loyal to the brand.
e.g. Canon makes that XC10 camera, yeah just add that to my order as well

B) Price led - Lowest price wins for this customer
e.g. No way $3000 is too much. I'm not willing to pay more than $,$$$ for a point and shoot

C) Value led - This customer takes a calculated approach to purchasing
e.g. Hmmm... Compared to the Leica this offers pretty good performance, also it has more resolution and a slightly better lens than the Sony, also the new sensor performs better than the 5DsR and it's in a more discrete package, also it's full frame unlike the Fuji cameras, also it's backed by Canon's after-sales service. Seems like this could work for me.

Group A is a small niche.
Group B is a huge proportion of the market but will not provide a quick return on investment
Group C is a tough crowd to please as there are many different needs in the market and a huge range of products with different strengths and weaknesses

Many Japanese brands are trying what people call the luxury strategy, there is a famous book about it.

Time
Heritage
Country of origin
Craftsmanship
Man-made
Small series


I read this a couple of days ago in some article. And most of those elements are present.

It's not just a normal article of course, it's native advertising. It's a commercial without the readers realizing it.

And this is of course eaten up by consumers.

 

[scyrene]

Why only fat old mirrorslappers and multiple-crippled mirrorless
cameras?

Because those are the things that sell the most?

 

[applecider]

If they sold this refurb, with a useable iso to 6400, 28 or less MP, I'd pay $500 for it max. With a 50 MP 6400 iso sensor $750. 50MP iso 3200 sensor maybe $600.

Seems like a weird way to avoid giving us what we really want...a full frame mirror less with interchangeable lenses.

 

[privatebydesign]

Below is an example of what I am talking about, 35 f2 IS @ f2 with a ff camera, you can't do that dof control on a crop camera.

Nothing in your picture is in focus or sharp. Your subject isn't in focus either.

Blame your technique instead of crop cameras.

Idiot, click on it so it displays at actual resolution, 750px wide, not in line and you will see that the subject is sharp. If you want I can post a 100% crop of the guys mustache, you can count the individual hairs.

The point was the volcano is famous but it is the juxtaposition of it overshadowing a long time resident, yet creating a balance by letting it blur, you cannot get that level of subject isolation with that perspective with a crop camera because they don't make a 22mm f1.25 lens.

 

[stochasticmotions]

didn't Sony come out with the RX1, testing the waters before the A7....maybe this is Canon's chance to do the same just before coming out with something even better

 

[tcmatthews]

While I can almost understand it I just cannot see spending all that money? I would much rather see a full frame EOS-M with a series of high quality compact lenses 24L,35f2 L, 50L and 85L. The problem is some day the camera will die. If it is a high quality fixed lens camera you cannot buy a new camera to put the lens on. It is more of a luxury device and I am just to practical.

What can I say not the camera for me unless they somehow make it for $600. Which is about my limit for such things.

I still hate the fact the Sony FE compact 35mm is only f2.8 it should be f2. I do not care how good it is it needs to be at least f2 before I will buy one.

 

[SwampYankee]

Re: Canon Working on Full Frame Fixed Lens Camera? [CR1

Ah....just a year too late Canon. I bought a Fuji X100S a little over a year ago. It was so good I bought a Fuji XT-1 and a bunch of fast primes. Sold all of my Canon stuff because Canons mirrorless offering were not compelling. Canon lost a 35 year customer because they were years behind. too late now

There has been some praises for the Fuji x100s/t in this thread. I had the x100s for 18 months. I loved the rangefinder style and shooting experience. It was incredibly fun to use, even though the focus should be faster for street shooting. The sensor was very good as well, and not to far behind the 6D in terms of noise performance.

The lens however, which I expected a lot from after praises in various reviews, was very disappointing to me. The EF-M 22 f/2 on my EOS-M was much, much!!! sharper and clearer than the X100S. After comparing them, I sold the X100S. That said, the pictures from the Fuji looks sharp enough on an iPad, untill zooming in.

I would consider a Fuji, such as the X100 again, if the optics could compete with those of the EOS-M system.

Heh.. I had a 5DIII and the prints from the Fuji XT-1 and a prime were indistinguishable from the Canon at 13x19.....The X100S is pretty close. great prints up to 13x19 on a Canon Pixima pro 1. must have a had a bad copy or something (although I have never heard of a bad X100S).