Canon Working on Full Frame Fixed Lens Camera? [CR1]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors
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rrcphoto said:
I'm sorry, I didn't know that Canon had already perfected the autofocus and viewfinder with the EOS-M. :
Anyone who believes that Canon is ready -- right now -- to make an FF mirrorless system as polished and thought-through as a 5D3 is in dreamland.
- A
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Pookie said:
Hmm, clearly you don't understand the concept of equivalence, read this then came back and make an actual point.
http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/equivalence/
But let me double down on my point which clearly most people here understand, my shot was taken with a FF camera a 35mm lens @ f2, to do that with a Canon crop camera I would need a 23mm f1.25 lens, which isn't made, so it can't be done. Now if you had shown me an image you shot with a 24mm f1.4 @ 1.4 on your 7D I'd have given you some respect for at least getting the concept of equivalence, even though my lens cost $350 and yours cost four times as much, along with being considerably bigger and heavier and you still don't have the level of dof isolation that was core to my original comment, "dof control is the next most powerful characteristic that enables you to make the image you see in your mind. Below is an example of what I am talking about, 35 f2 IS @ f2 with a ff camera, you can't do that dof control even with the 35 f1.4 at 1.4 on a crop camera", but you didn't.
I don't care if you laugh at me, indeed the idea that you are fills me with the happiness of you wallowing in your own ignorance, which is fine by me, be ignorant. As for calling me Polly, I don't get it, I realise you mean it as an insult and you are calling me a parrot, but I don't understand what I am parroting or the relevance.
As for my images, I only post relevant images that I have to hand, and have posted hundreds of them. I don't use CR for my personal gratification or ego boosting, nobody knows if I have a holiday house in Hawaii, made a fortune on pharmaceutical start ups and trading, or Apple shares, shoot for Google, Apple et al, have two studios, blah blah blah. There are several very wealthy participants here and not one of them drops that stuff in to the conversations like you do, they are also better photographers because they see the light and their subjects, but I'm sure I'm wasting my time, you are probably just reading this and thinking 'he's just jealous', I'm not, I'd rather be poor and like me than wealthy and like you. I drive a $1,500 GMC Jimmy, I shoot with 1Ds MkIII's which would struggle to make a $1,000 in the condition they are in, sometimes I am wrong (and have admitted I made mistakes here when I am) but I have a good education and long term background in photography.
I do find it strange that somebody who claims to run two studios and isn't shy about showing off seems to only have rather weak SmugMug and Flickr websites, what is even more curious is that you have posted most of the images on those sites here too, why is that Walter?
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privatebydesign said:
Yes. Don't get headaches over trolls :
He does have some hot models though...
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H. Jones said:
It's all going to come down to handling.
I've shot a lot with the X100T and RX1R. I'd grab the X100T every time if it were FF. The viewfinder alone almost makes up for the lack of FF and though kludgy, even Fuji's menu system is better than Sony's.
If Canon really wants to compete here, they have to NAIL ergonomics and usability. It also has to be razor sharp, but for a camera like this, it is bought out of love, not necessity.
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rrcphoto said:
I hear you, but are you saying that a PowerShot + FF sensor + interchangeable lens mount would be a compelling product? That it would be as lag-free as a Fuji X or Sony A7 rig? Will the focus-peaking, AF speed, VF customizability, etc. be as strong as the competition?
Canon having various 'pieces on the board', like...
- Mirrorless experience from the Powershot line
- A modular EVF from EOS-M
- DPAF from SLRs
- A legendary track record with the EF mount
- Ergonomic flight hours logged with the EOS-M
- Decent batteries
...does not mean they can Frankenstein together a great FF mirrorless right out of the gate. They've never reached for (say) a 5D-level of performance/tuneability/robustness in a mirrorless rig, so it's unlikely to think that their first offering would get to those heights.
It stands to reason that Canon needs to build either a very high-end EOS-M system that would break new ground (integral EVF, 7D2-ish AF performance, faster/USM lenses) or possibly this fixed lens FF mirrorless rumor as a sacrificial lamb to try, fail, learn, fail, and improve. To NOT do one of those two things and just offer an FF mirrorless platform that is underwhelming or not well thought through could be disaster for Canon.
- A
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ahsanford said:
probably not, then again, i wouldn't expect all that from this product either assuming it comes out of the gate.
btw, focus-peaking is already in powershots. VF customization is already in the powershot firmware.. next?
the RUMOUR didn't suggest a 3K price either, CR did.
you're thinking and now stating as if it's fact that this is a precursor to something.
why? when the 6D and 5D Mark III canons are outselling every single full frame A7 no matter how much Sony dumps the price.
canon isn't going to invest crap into this small niche.
which is why we got the EOS-M in it's current form - hobbled together from Rebel parts.
this makes more sense as a step up from the G1X Mark II then it does signaling some massive change in canon strategy.
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rrcphoto said:
Pricey for sure, but in the fixed lens FF with AF market space... you have, what, three offerings?
Leica Q = $4,250
RX1R II = $3,300
RX1 (3+ years old) = $2k
So $3k is not terribly off-target for the market, but it will depends heavily on the sensor and the quality of that lens.
If it's a 5D3 sensor with a nice-but-not-stellar 35 f/2 lens in there, then yes, it's overpriced. But if Canon 'pulls an RX1R II' and jams the 5DS R sensor in there and creates a new L lens for it, people will complain less about the price.
- A
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PureClassA said:privatebydesign said:
Yes. Don't get headaches over trolls :
Just a pity they look rather uncomfortable
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rrcphoto said:
You're not serious are you? Trolling?
A "point and shoot" from Canon is a powershot camera. Any idiot can work one. You point it and fire off the shot and the camera (hopefully) figures everything out and gives you a nice little snapshot.
Taking an advanced full frame camera and attaching a fixed lens has next to nothing in common with your average $200 P&S camera.
Look at a Fuji X100 series vs a Fuji X-pro series camera may highlight the point for you. Nearly identical cameras in many ways. The one big difference is one has a fixed lens and the other can interchange lenses.
Soooo... back to my original point, Canon could be "testing the waters" of what their pro-style mirrorless camera could be without committing to the lens mount and lens lineup.
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Luds34 said:
+1 I've been saying this for about 5 pages. It's not the camera I personally want, but I see tremendous FF ILC mirrorless value in Canon taking a loss on a 'learning model' that isn't the FF ILC system itself.
Then there's the billion dollar mount question, which the market (and even this forum) has not agreed on:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=28223.0
It always bears repeating -- the mirrorless market is fragmented. The system you build for the 'keep it small / the only upside of mirrorless is size' camp is entirely different from the 'I want this system to replace my SLR and do everything that it can do (and more)' camp.
- A
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It's fun to shoot for pleasure or sharpening skills, bringing along one lens. Yes, the 35mm is a favorite "if-I-could-only-have-one-focal-length" type of lens. Going out with one lens does push craft, creativity, ingenuity...But when it's time for serious photography, whether that be at a pro level or traveling or as a beloved hobby, why add this to a good kit or depend on it as ones only camera?
To be stuck with a body/lens combo that can't zoom, can't swap focal lengths, I just don't see the point. A FF mirrorless that has a choice of lenses does make sense for those who need something smaller than a dSLR, either for convenience or tendonitis. But not this.
While one might imagine having such a camera for fun, or for a cool factor, seriously, who would you recommend a $3k p&s to? Family member learning? A pro?
To be stuck with a body/lens combo that can't zoom, can't swap focal lengths, I just don't see the point. A FF mirrorless that has a choice of lenses does make sense for those who need something smaller than a dSLR, either for convenience or tendonitis. But not this.
While one might imagine having such a camera for fun, or for a cool factor, seriously, who would you recommend a $3k p&s to? Family member learning? A pro?
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Luds34 said:
really? what's different. the camera has to AF reliably and quickly. you have manual controls, you have a nice EVF, you have a good optical system.
not much different that say the equivalent G5x series camera - just with a different lens / sensor.
A point and shoot has the exact same GUTS as canon's DSLR's minus the mirror box, OVF, iTR metering and PDAF sensor.
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Crosswind said:
It's only a rumor, of course, but if you slammed that 50 MP sensor in there and it had a fixed lens, I don't see it stealing any business from the 5DS R. This has been done twice, and relatively recently -- ask Sony how many more original 24MP A7 rigs they sold compared to the RX1, or how many A7R II rigs they will sell compared to the RX1R II. I'd imagine the interchangeable lens option dwarfs the fixed lens version for sales.
But if this rumor was true and Canon had any doubt about this, they could nerf the framerate, limit the AF functionality, max shutter speed, etc. on the mirrorless rig to not look attractive compared to the 5DS R.
But I really don't see a fixed lens mirrorless rig stealing top end SLR sales.
- A
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Economies of scale... Put the 50MP sensor into more products which are clearly differentiated from the 5Ds/R and you reduce the unit costs of the sensor and don't excessively cannibalize 5Ds-R. Also, since competitors are not yet matching 50MP, it retains a certain novelty factor.ahsanford said:
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I don't have much faith that this rumor is true, and wouldn't be interested in the camera either way. But I am curious as to why the general consensus around here seems to be that it will be mirrorless. While Canon has clearly demonstrated the ability to have blazingly fast and accurate phase detect AF as well as blistering frame rates, they have yet to demonstrate the ability to do this in a mirrorless system. Perhaps DPAF is more advanced than I thought?
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