theoretically you can get closer with a 180 that the mp-e 65mm as long as it is compatible with a 2x extender then get a set of extension tubes and you will be insanely close
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recon photography said:
How do you figure that? The 180mm Macro is 1x magnification, and with the 2x extender (yes, it's compatible) it becomes 2x magnification. Since extension tubes increase magnification by a factor of [tube length / focal length], they are not very effective at long focal lengths. Stacking the full set of Kenko tubes (68mm) or 3 EF 25mm tubes onto the 180mm Macro with the 2x Extender behind it only gets you to about 2.4x magnification, not even half of the 5x magnification you can get with the MP-E 65mm.
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if you stack extension tubes to the point the front of the lens touches the subject (that basically what the mp-e 65 does) then it should be closer the mp-e has 325mm at basically 0 distance from subject so you should be able to get the 180 to have 360mm at basically 0 distance from subject with extension tubes and extender. remember i used the word theoretically
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also the 100mm f2.8l gets to 1.4x mag with just 1 25mm extension tube so i have a feeling you may be ripping a little to hard on the mag of the 180
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recon photography said:
True, but a single 25mm tube on the 180mm only gets you to 1.2x magnification. Even if you could stack an extender and enough extension tubes to get the 180mm somewhere close to 5x, why? The more tubes you add, the more the light is spread out - it's not quite empty resolution, but you are decreasing the resolution relative to the MP-E 65mm. Also, that's a lot of expense and hassle to get something the MP-E 65mm can do natively. If you really like that sort of complex setup, get yourself a reversing ring and mount a reversed prime on a telephoto lens via a bellows, and you'll get real magnification...
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Hey, those are some nice samples neuro / John. (By the by, did you write any of the TDP lens reviews or portions? I've seen some phrases from TDP reviews in other places, and your initial response here seemed like one of those times.)
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Edwin Herdman said:
Thanks, Edwin! Nope, those are all Bryan's. I do use them for reference quite frequently, though, as they're thorough and informative.
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i was just saying if he decides he is really into to macro for about 500 more $ he has a slightly more magnified less good mp-e 65
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That doesn't sound like much of a choice. $500 for a worse lens that perhaps is slightly more magnified?
From what I have read - just read - it does seem like the 180mm macro could be sharper, and could perhaps be faster (although most lenses can't be made arbitrarily fast...the new EF extenders make lenses focus much slower for the sake of accuracy, especially the 2X).
I know - I'm not employed by Sigma - but I do recall that they have a pretty new (I think, there's also a discontinued one I might be getting this mixed up with) 150mm macro which should be more or less close to the 180mm macro, but at the usual bargain basement prices.
Edit: Nevermind - I looked down that road before - TDP finds problems with AF accuracy with Sigma's semi-equivalent offerings to Canon's 100mm f/2.8 and the 180mm f/3.5 macros - the 105mm and 150mm macros, both f/2.8. Both are reported as having AF issues "even on 1-series bodies." Vignetting on the 150mm. Sharpness for both lenses wide open is about the same as their Canon equivalents, even on the f/2.8 150mm compared to the 180mm - not bad.
Personally I haven't heard of any replacement for the MP-E 65mm...being able to focus and change the variable magnification at the same time is something no other lens, at least on EOS, does so smoothly. No excuse not to get it if you need it. It really has been a boon for miniature photography, and much better than some clumsy reversed-prime (exposing the wrong end of the lens to the elements, for goodness sake!) ordeal which still doesn't let you easily change magnification (well, depending on how bad the bellows is I suppose). If I recall right you can eat the cost of a MP-E and the macro twin light and still have a few dollars left over before you can buy the 180mm macro, which of course won't be coming with a macro light. On the other hand, the detachable flash heads on the twin light should be very useful for the 180mm macro too.
For my first dedicated macro, I'll probably be looking at the 100mm f/2.8, although the 180mm f/3.5 is still tempting - but being half again more expensive it doesn't seem quite to add up the value I expect. No extender utility with the 100mm, though IS more than makes up for it I would expect. On the other hand...180mm!! Of course, if money were no object, the Hartblei Superrotator 120mm f/4 Makro would be a tempting choice too.
From what I have read - just read - it does seem like the 180mm macro could be sharper, and could perhaps be faster (although most lenses can't be made arbitrarily fast...the new EF extenders make lenses focus much slower for the sake of accuracy, especially the 2X).
I know - I'm not employed by Sigma - but I do recall that they have a pretty new (I think, there's also a discontinued one I might be getting this mixed up with) 150mm macro which should be more or less close to the 180mm macro, but at the usual bargain basement prices.
Edit: Nevermind - I looked down that road before - TDP finds problems with AF accuracy with Sigma's semi-equivalent offerings to Canon's 100mm f/2.8 and the 180mm f/3.5 macros - the 105mm and 150mm macros, both f/2.8. Both are reported as having AF issues "even on 1-series bodies." Vignetting on the 150mm. Sharpness for both lenses wide open is about the same as their Canon equivalents, even on the f/2.8 150mm compared to the 180mm - not bad.
Personally I haven't heard of any replacement for the MP-E 65mm...being able to focus and change the variable magnification at the same time is something no other lens, at least on EOS, does so smoothly. No excuse not to get it if you need it. It really has been a boon for miniature photography, and much better than some clumsy reversed-prime (exposing the wrong end of the lens to the elements, for goodness sake!) ordeal which still doesn't let you easily change magnification (well, depending on how bad the bellows is I suppose). If I recall right you can eat the cost of a MP-E and the macro twin light and still have a few dollars left over before you can buy the 180mm macro, which of course won't be coming with a macro light. On the other hand, the detachable flash heads on the twin light should be very useful for the 180mm macro too.
For my first dedicated macro, I'll probably be looking at the 100mm f/2.8, although the 180mm f/3.5 is still tempting - but being half again more expensive it doesn't seem quite to add up the value I expect. No extender utility with the 100mm, though IS more than makes up for it I would expect. On the other hand...180mm!! Of course, if money were no object, the Hartblei Superrotator 120mm f/4 Makro would be a tempting choice too.
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most people use manual focus for macro anyway i'm just saying if he buys a 180 get doesn't have to get a mp-e later if i were him i would just get a 100mm f2.8l its really good for portraits 2
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